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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The really nice custom bag you see here is made by a guy here in UT named John Arbon. He's the guy that made the video.

Here is his website:
https://comfortinthecold.com/index.php

The site contains more info on the technology.

As far as I understand it weighs about 8 lbs

I sell a poor man's version of the bag. Here is a copy of the newsletter I sent out to my database of preparedness people.

Here is the Poor Man's Gear sleeping bag system​

Image is attached below. I also included the image of the bag from the video

Essentially this is a tube that you slip into from the top. No zippers or manual closures.

Features

These bags are designed for long term use, day in day out, even for months at a time if necessary. They will not retain moisture. The sleeping system, and you, will not freeze when used correctly.

* Heavy duty outside construction of wind resistant/water repellent Versatech like fabric
* Constructed with 1.5" soft foam for full arctic sleeping conditions
* Includes 1'' firm foam moisture handling pad and deicing clothe
* Draft curtain to trap dry stabilized air inside bag while in use
* Hooded top to provide maximum warmth and minimum exposure



Why Foam Sleeping Bags?

Most sleeping bags are made of a type of fiber batting sandwiched between some type of fabric envelope. Others use down for their insulation. The primary purpose of an insulation is to maintain a dead air space between you and the undesirable temperatures. The better an insulation can maintain that dead air space, the better the insulation.

Foam does a better job of maintaining a dead air space even when wet. Also, the very nature of it is hydrophobic (repels water), not hydrophilic (attracts water). This means that it does a better job of shedding the moisture that your body produces all the time. Yes, even when you sleep your body is expelling moisture. This moisture has to go somewhere. If the clothes you wear in your sleeping bag, or the material from which your bag is made is hydrophilic (attracts water), it will retain that moisture and in sub-freezing temperatures will cause you to be very cold, if not very dead. In relation to cold temperatures, "Cotton kills," is a saying that is used frequently to remind people that such a material is very undesirable under those conditions. Synthetic materials work best in shedding this moisture. Synthetic materials include, polyester, nylon, rayon, and other petroleum based products (oil and water don't mix).

Thus when using a foam sleeping bag system you really want to avoid sleeping in hydrophilic(attracts water) materials such a cotton/ploy long john, cotten sweats, t-shirts, or cotton based undergarments. These will only trap the moisture next to your skin and drop your body tempurature.

Fiber batting and down work very well for short-term use, and if that is all you need, then go do some research on these bags and get one of those (Wiggy's bags are excellent fiber bags), but over longer periods of constant use they will fail. With long-term consecutive day use moisture builds up over time in these materials and their ability to insulate is dramatically reduced; sometimes even in as short as three consecutive days.


Selecting your size

Girth is the distance around your body.Measure around waist/hips/shoulders in inches, select the largest of the three, and use that measurement to select the appropriate girth for your bag.

Height is simply how tall you are. For example if you are between 5'10" and 6'4" you'd select an XL.



Sizes and Prices:


* XL - Girth:58" - 62" Height (5'10" - 6'4") $380.00

* L - Girth:53" - 57" Height: (5'3" - 5'9") $370.00

* M - Girth:48" - 52" Height (4'8" - 5'2") $360.00

* S - Girth:43" - 47" Height (4'1" - 4'7") $350.00
 

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Free Born
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Did you ask for permission to post this to try and sell with the moderators? :thumb:
 

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End of the Roader
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Not disputing anything posted about the bags...

My concern would be how does the foam react to sunlight, heat (desert camping gets hot), and time. I have some foam pads that started falling apart after a few years... would hate to invest in a new technology and have a boat anchor in a few years. If a major company (such as North Face) or retailer (such as REI) were backing it, my fears would be allayed, as they'd warranty it...
 

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I have found a much cheaper and reliable sleeping bag. It is the ECWS Modular Sleep System used by the army. I have spent many nights (18 months in Iraq) in this bag. It worked really well and never needed service. I have also used it in northern Wisconsin in the winter with no other shelter at -18 below. It is also much cheeper.
 

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The really nice custom bag you see here is made by a guy here in UT named John Arbon. He's the guy that made

the video.

Here is his website:
https://comfortinthecold.com/index.php

The site contains more info on the technology.

As far as I understand it weighs about 8 lbs

I sell a poor man's version of the bag. Here is a copy of the newsletter I sent out to my database of preparedness people.

Here is the Poor Man's Gear sleeping bag system​

Image is attached below. I also included the image of the bag from the video

Essentially this is a tube that you slip into from the top. No zippers or manual closures.

Features

These bags are designed for long term use, day in day out, even for months at a time if necessary. They will not retain moisture. The sleeping system, and you, will not freeze when used correctly.

* Heavy duty outside construction of wind resistant/water repellent Versatech like fabric
* Constructed with 1.5" soft foam for full arctic sleeping conditions
* Includes 1'' firm foam moisture handling pad and deicing clothe
* Draft curtain to trap dry stabilized air inside bag while in use
* Hooded top to provide maximum warmth and minimum exposure



Why Foam Sleeping Bags?

Most sleeping bags are made of a type of fiber batting sandwiched between some type of fabric envelope. Others use down for their insulation. The primary purpose of an insulation is to maintain a dead air space between you and the undesirable temperatures. The better an insulation can maintain that dead air space, the better the insulation.

Foam does a better job of maintaining a dead air space even when wet. Also, the very nature of it is hydrophobic (repels water), not hydrophilic (attracts water). This means that it does a better job of shedding the moisture that your body produces all the time. Yes, even when you sleep your body is expelling moisture. This moisture has to go somewhere. If the clothes you wear in your sleeping bag, or the material from which your bag is made is hydrophilic (attracts water), it will retain that moisture and in sub-freezing temperatures will cause you to be very cold, if not very dead. In relation to cold temperatures, "Cotton kills," is a saying that is used frequently to remind people that such a material is very undesirable under those conditions. Synthetic materials work best in shedding this moisture. Synthetic materials include, polyester, nylon, rayon, and other petroleum based products (oil and water don't mix).

Thus when using a foam sleeping bag system you really want to avoid sleeping in hydrophilic(attracts water) materials such a cotton/ploy long john, cotten sweats, t-shirts, or cotton based undergarments. These will only trap the moisture next to your skin and drop your body tempurature.

Fiber batting and down work very well for short-term use, and if that is all you need, then go do some research on these bags and get one of those (Wiggy's bags are excellent fiber bags), but over longer periods of constant use they will fail. With long-term consecutive day use moisture builds up over time in these materials and their ability to insulate is dramatically reduced; sometimes even in as short as three consecutive days.


Selecting your size

Girth is the distance around your body.Measure around waist/hips/shoulders in inches, select the largest of the three, and use that measurement to select the appropriate girth for your bag.

Height is simply how tall you are. For example if you are between 5'10" and 6'4" you'd select an XL.



Sizes and Prices:


* XL - Girth:58" - 62" Height (5'10" - 6'4") $380.00

* L - Girth:53" - 57" Height: (5'3" - 5'9") $370.00

* M - Girth:48" - 52" Height (4'8" - 5'2") $360.00

* S - Girth:43" - 47" Height (4'1" - 4'7") $350.00


Thanks for the info John, er uh I mean Ephraim09
 

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Be a badass and cold weather camp with a wool blanket :D:
People did it though way back when...it took a steady fire though and a good shelter. You think the alaskan gold miners and pioneers had space age technology?
 

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Be a badass and cold weather camp with a wool blanket :D:
People did it though way back when...it took a steady fire though and a good shelter. You think the alaskan gold miners and pioneers had space age technology?
Back then a nice bear or buffalo coat was nice to have...:thumb:
 

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Thanks Doc

I have found a much cheaper and reliable sleeping bag. It is the ECWS Modular Sleep System used by the army. I have spent many nights (18 months in Iraq) in this bag. It worked really well and never needed service. I have also used it in northern Wisconsin in the winter with no other shelter at -18 below. It is also much cheeper.
Thanks Doc, this was just the nudge I needed to go ahead and order one of these, which I just did from cheaper than dirt.

Wheel
 

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Got it

Thanks Doc, this was just the nudge I needed to go ahead and order one of these, which I just did from cheaper than dirt.

Wheel
I have the package and I'm about to open it.

Here we go.

18"x12"x12" cardboard box.

Inside I find a preprinted return label, but this is not a returnable item.

There is an invoice:
Cheaper Than Dirt!
Item # ZWB-144
Original US ECWS Modular Sleep System -30 Degrees
Bivy, Patrol Bag, Intermediate Bag, Compression Sack
MERCHANDISE INVOICE TOTAL $129.97
SHIPPING AND HANDLING $16.13
INVOICE TOTAL $146.10
PREPAYMENT $-146.10

The box also contains a bag compressed with 1" nylon straps and nylon hardware.
The bag is a tight fit in the box.
"Note to self" remember exactly how you uncompress this or you'll never get it back like it was.

Bag appears to be in perfect condition, smells clean, no wear or tear.
It feels heavy for a sleeping bag, maybe twelve pounds.

I'll start loosening the straps now.

The six longitudinal straps are relieved of tension and the bag grew six inches longer to about 24 inches.
The three straps around the bag are loose now.
One end of the bag has a label "Stuff Sack, Compression" with instructions.
Now I'll loosen the drawstring that holds the bag closed at the other end.

Shaking the bag by the handle on the label end, three articles fell out on the floor:
One big black bag
One smaller green bag
One bag smaller yet, Goretex camo on one side and black on the other. This bag has debris in it. The debris has a flaky consistency.

The bags have a faint chemical smell, possibly from dry cleaning solvents.

I'm going outside to shake the debris out of the black/camo bivy bag.
This bivy bag has a torn seam where the hood joins the bag.
The tear is six inches long.

The green intermediate bag and the black patrol bag appear to be in good-as-new condition.

I'll try and put the three bags together now, one inside the other, inside the other.

Okay then, I got the patrol bag inside the intermediate bag inside the bivy and I crawled inside.
Once I got the bags zipped up (no small feat) I realized how difficult it would be to try and snap the snaps over the zippers.
Hopefully I'll never be that cold that I need both the zippers and the snaps secured. One or the other maybe.

Now my problem was how to get the three hoods adjusted with the three drawstrings.
Not likely.
I got out and attempted to pre-adjust the three hoods so I could just get in the bags and have them fit.
Easier said than done.
This would not be something I would like to attempt with mittens on over freezing fingers.
I'd be wishing for a insulated sleeping pad and a good mummy bag with a single zipper.

Next I'll try and get everything back in the Stuff Sack, Compression.

Well, I got the three bags back into the compression bag without taking them apart, but the package won't fit back into the 18"x12"x12" box now.

I feel confident that I could sleep indoors in a very cold house with one of these, but I would rather have a goose down mummy bag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have found a much cheaper and reliable sleeping bag. It is the ECWS Modular Sleep System used by the army. I have spent many nights (18 months in Iraq) in this bag. It worked really well and never needed service. I have also used it in northern Wisconsin in the winter with no other shelter at -18 below. It is also much cheeper.
True it is cheaper, but you get what you pay for.

Check out this short video. Then tell me which system you'd prefer for a long, or even short term, survival situation.

http://redhotlogo.com/index_files/Page301.htm

It is a 4 hour freezer test pitting the ECWCS system against the foam clothing at -8 degrees. The foam clothing starts out saturated with 2 liters of water. The ECWCS began dry. As you watch remember that both systems performance can easily carry over to the sleeping bags. Even asleep the user expels moisture.
 

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I have a question about foam bags...

They are waterproof and "hydrophobic", so how does your body breathe? If the bag will not absorb any water, does that mean that you wake up in the morning in a warm pool of your own sweat and other fluids? If not, why not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not disputing anything posted about the bags...

My concern would be how does the foam react to sunlight, heat (desert camping gets hot), and time. I have some foam pads that started falling apart after a few years... would hate to invest in a new technology and have a boat anchor in a few years. If a major company (such as North Face) or retailer (such as REI) were backing it, my fears would be allayed, as they'd warranty it...
Foam breaks down to UV exposure. If protected it will last a very long time. What does it take to protect it? Not much actually. Just encasing it in a shell works just fine. A person using it for clothing or a sleeping bag would do that anyway. Take the picture for example. The foam is encased in a layer of Versatech fabric, for an outside shell. This bag is ready for many years of heavy use.

Personal experience: I went snow camping a -10 degrees several years ago. I wore and slept in a set of foam clothing and a foam sleeping bag that was 20 years old, and had seen vigorous use. I was warm all night, and wasn't cold once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have a question about foam bags...

They are waterproof and "hydrophobic", so how does your body breathe? If the bag will not absorb any water, does that mean that you wake up in the morning in a warm pool of your own sweat and other fluids? If not, why not?
That's a great question. The bags are not waterproof. The outside fabric of the bag is 'water repellent'. Not the same thing. Yes the material used in the bag is hydrophobic. So with a breathable shell the hydrophobic insulation is free to push all the moisture the body generates to the outside air. While the 'water repellent' fabric has a tight enough weave that it turns away water molecules bunched together to the size of a rain drop. The tight weave also prevents wind from disturbing the dry stabilized air that acts as insulation.

The term waterproof/breathable is a tricky one in the industry. While the advertised shells out are waterproof/breathable, the problem is that the are not breathable enough, and a little to waterproof.

The water-vapor moisture transfer rate (a scientific measurement used in the clothing and sleeping bag industry) has to be high enough so that the wearer dosn't eventually end up sleeping in their own sweat. Really a user would need a shell with a water-vapor moisture transfer rate of at least 1200. Common waterproof/breathable shells are in the 800's.

A case in point would be the ECWC sleeping bag mentioned here. Oh, its breathable, but not breathable enough! The user will get cold, and after consecutive days of use the bag will fail. That would require the user to have an external heat source to dry out the bag.
 
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