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I have two LWRC piston upper ARs and they work great, with or without a can. Cleaner, cooler is correct. The less accurate statement is BS. Everybody that has shot mine said that they were smoother than a DI gun. I have spare parts for mine and they are quite cheap too.

Remember, the AR15/M16 had DI because it was cheaper to make and being sold by the lowest bid.
 

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Bla... bla... bla...


Too many boutique guns out there.

I just like a normal DI gun. Less parts, easier parts to find, they all fit any gun, lighter weight, softer recoil...


And who the hell takes out their BCG, and holds it in their hand right after a protracted gunfight? Been in a lot of firefights in my 3 combat deployments... Never decided to play with my hot BCG immediately following... Always too hyped up, worried that it's not really over yet... or crashing from the adrenaline dump.
 

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And who the hell takes out their BCG, and holds it in their hand right after a protracted gunfight?
Only a retard would make a useless statement like the above. The reason they did that was to show how much cooler the bolt was during a heavy firing session. In a Di gun that heat shortens the service life of the bolt and carrier.

Please move along and let the adults discuss. You apparently have nothing of value to offer in this discussion.
 

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I built a really lightweight 16" pencil barreled carbine with mid-length gas port. This one is a really smooth and soft recoiling rifle. I never thought the gas piston setups were worth doing and there are so many out there. None seem to be standardized design wise.
 

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Only a retard would make a useless statement like the above. The reason they did that was to show how much cooler the bolt was during a heavy firing session. In a Di gun that heat shortens the service life of the bolt and carrier.

Please move along and let the adults discuss. You apparently have nothing of value to offer in this discussion.
Hot to the touch is one thing...

The only way you could get a BCG hot enough to effect the temper of the steel it's made of would be to fire thousands upon thousands of rounds nonstop. Get real... The gas tube would melt before that happened...
 

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Only a retard would make a useless statement like the above. The reason they did that was to show how much cooler the bolt was during a heavy firing session. In a Di gun that heat shortens the service life of the bolt and carrier.

Please move along and let the adults discuss. You apparently have nothing of value to offer in this discussion.
Please, care to share with us your background in metallurgy?

But, as you said in your first sentence....you weren't wrong on that one.
 

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IMHO the piston gun is the answer to a problem that doesn’t exist. If you have a quality DGI rig it’s just as reliable and will serve you just fine. DGI guns have readily available parts, seem to be a lot lighter, easier to work on, and are extremely reliable. Im not saying anything bad about the piston guns. They run to. Is it really worth the extra weight,cost, parts availability, etc?
 

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I think piston ARs have their sweet spot place. On shorties with cans. Other than that, no practical fighting advantage accrued. Not in my experience.

My former units ran a mix (primarily Colt M4A1s and HK 416s). Both worked well in combat and without any notable issues.

I once stood on a home station training range and fired off 37 x 30 round mags of M855. 1110 rounds. All of it on full auto and in just under 27 minutes. That out of my issued SOPMOD M4A1. Way beyond book sustained rate of fire for that weapon. Not a stutter, not a jam, nothing melted or caught fire. Aimed short & long bursts of fire at short ranges with all rounds staying on targets. E-type silhouettes I was engaging from about 7-25 yards. Gun ran like an industrial sewing machine. A DI military gun. Not atypical performance for the type.

That was 2.5 times as much ammo as my max on-body load during wartime. Bout 3+ times as much as I typically carried for generic patrol purposes. Somewhat replicating an encircled last stand effort with resupply ammo speed-balls delivered from the air. If I ever had need (and access) to that much carbine 5.56 in in a TIC... I'd most likely be dead. Along with everyone else.

During every combat rotation downrange, my unit's AAR comments were notably lacking in identifying any functional issues with our DI M4A1s. Or our piston guns for that matter (other than steel HK mags sucking). Carbine issues were a non-existent problem. They simply worked. I've heard/read claims from other troops in other units that differ. And of course on the internet.

But among the six rotating Army Special Forces battalions (and our habitually attached NSW Task Units) in my AOR... year-in, year-out, the merits of one over the other was simply a non-issue. Not even a topic of discussion. Wheels that weren't broke. Our guns worked.

If you ever need to fire 1000+ rounds through your carbine or rifle at one sitting... you've almost certainly got bigger problems than what operating system you chose.

Either gas system will deliver that kind of failure free performance with a good quality gun. I ran military-issue ARs from 1977 through 2011. M16A1, XM-177, M16A2, M4A1. In units that shot a lot more ammo than the average bears. Never noticed any issue/failing that I could attribute to the design of the gas system. Nor with my personally purchased models.

They're both functionally engineered ways to run an AR, but I wouldn't pay extra for a piston design... unless I planned to run a dedicated suppressor and a short barrel. Or if a piston gun just happened to be available at a screamin' deal price.

There's so much more to AR shopping than the old Piston vs DI reliability debate. More important to figure out if your wallet allows you to buy a better tier of gun, determination of barrel length and ammo combos. Gas system length if you go DI. Optics, rails, and all the rest.

Buy the best gun you can afford, train with it, and don't worry overly much about pistons and direct impingement.
 

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Hot to the touch is one thing...

The only way you could get a BCG hot enough to effect the temper of the steel it's made of would be to fire thousands upon thousands of rounds nonstop. Get real... The gas tube would melt before that happened...
Here we go with another keyboard commando that thinks he a specialist. It does not take anywhere near thousands and thousands of rounds non stop to get the bolt CG hot that it can not be held. :rolleyes:

Back in the early 2000s I did some beta testing of the H&K 416 10.5" 5.56 MG with a SF guy that was doing the testing for a gov't facility. A small group of us went to a local farm for a shoot and he had the H&K 416, lots of ammo and a chrono. They wanted any and all info that setup that he could get. After we had been firing it for a bit he had me mag dump about five mags, clear the gun and pop the receiver open. At that point he took the bolt carrier out and held it in his hand. He said at that point the bolt carrier from a Di gun would be to hot to grasp like he was doing.

I know that he's the real deal and did time in the Stan, the sandbox and a place or two that I can't say cuz it was never in the news. His combat pay at one point allowed him to buy a few transferable MGS including a Colt Thompson and H&K 21 beltfed. He knows way more about this stuff than a bunch of wannabe COD commandos in their parents basement.
 

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Remember, the AR15/M16 had DI because it was cheaper to make and being sold by the lowest bid.
Ummm...no. It was designed that way because it worked in combination with the rest of the system, and it was light.

Meanwhile, for 60 years...it’s continued to work.

Here we go with another keyboard commando that thinks he a specialist. It does not take anywhere near thousands and thousands of rounds non stop to get the bolt CG hot that it can not be held. :rolleyes:
He didn’t say too hot to hold. He said hot enough to damage the bolt. You moved the goalposts to an entirely different field with another sport that doesn’t even use goal posts. Your argument is a strawman. :rolleyes:
 

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Here we go with another keyboard commando that thinks he a specialist. It does not take anywhere near thousands and thousands of rounds non stop to get the bolt CG hot that it can not be held. :rolleyes:...

...At that point he took the bolt carrier out and held it in his hand. He said at that point the bolt carrier from a Di gun would be to hot to grasp like he was doing.
I think the point is, while it's kind of a neat little demonstration to wow your observers, it really doesn't prove much. Things are already near the point of being too hot to hold on to >140 degrees-ish. That's nowhere near the temperature to destroy the integrity of the metal. While it's an interesting anecdote for those who are easily wowed, it reminds me of the sort of thing I'd see on an infomercial at 2:00AM.

While you could make arguments about this all day long, the reality is that DI is a WELL proven platform that despite anecdotes, demonstrations or studies, it's extremely capable and durable in most theaters of warfare.
 

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Here we go with another keyboard commando that thinks he a specialist.
wannabe COD commandos in their parents basement.

Interesting choice of name calling words child... I'm a 28 year veteran with multiple deployments, retired only by an IED. My oldest, on the other hand, (the Sheriff deputy) he, and some of his officer buddies are wanna be COD Commandos. They game all the time... lol.

He didn’t say too hot to hold. He said hot enough to damage the bolt. You moved the goalposts to an entirely different field with another sport that doesn’t even use goal posts. Your argument is a strawman. :rolleyes:
Thank you... That was my point. That, and the fact that I've never myself, or seen any of my troops leave the range, or a battlefield to immediately take out the BCG and play with the damn thing to see how hot it is right away... The only reason to ever pull it out during firing is to correct a stoppage. Maybe something like a double feed...


I think the point is, while it's kind of a neat little demonstration to wow your observers, it really doesn't prove much. Things are already near the point of being too hot to hold on to >140 degrees-ish. That's nowhere near the temperature to destroy the integrity of the metal. While it's an interesting anecdote for those who are easily wowed, it reminds me of the sort of thing I'd see on an infomercial at 2:00AM.

While you could make arguments about this all day long, the reality is that DI is a WELL proven platform that despite anecdotes, demonstrations or studies, it's extremely capable and durable in most theaters of warfare.

^^^ This right here... The point being that your delicate lady hands are much more easily damaged than the properly heat treated steel that the BCG is made of...

No worries mate. Shoot the damn thing.
 

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That is wrong. A simple internet search would provide you the correct answer.

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People love to quote that "lowest bidder" crap when complaining about the gov... While they do love to save money, they also love to waste it, and sometimes contracts go to the companies of friends... or donors... or companies in home states... sometimes the contracts just get voted on... sometimes they actually go to the best companies... or best designs... When it comes to the military, a lot of times (I didn't say "ALL") the "best" will win out, even if it does cost more... It's really all over the board, kinda like any other place...

I'm sure there are a few instances of actual "lowest bidder" in there somewhere... but you know how some people just love to pick up something and run with it. Kinda like how the leftists like to scream "racist" at every single person who dares to have a different opinion... just because there happens to be a few actual racists out there...
 

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People love to quote that "lowest bidder" crap when complaining about the gov... While they do love to save money, they also love to waste it, and sometimes contracts go to the companies of friends... or donors... or companies in home states... sometimes the contracts just get voted on... sometimes they actually go to the best companies... or best designs... When it comes to the military, a lot of times (I didn't say "ALL") the "best" will win out, even if it does cost more... It's really all over the board, kinda like any other place...

I'm sure there are a few instances of actual "lowest bidder" in there somewhere... but you know how some people just love to pick up something and run with it. Kinda like how the leftists like to scream "racist" at every single person who dares to have a different opinion... just because there happens to be a few actual racists out there...
After being in the Air Force for 21 years, I'm always skeptical about things labeled as MILSPEC. Sounds cool if you are non-military I reckon

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People love to quote that "lowest bidder" crap when complaining about the gov... While they do love to save money, they also love to waste it, and sometimes contracts go to the companies of friends... or donors... or companies in home states... sometimes the contracts just get voted on... sometimes they actually go to the best companies... or best designs... When it comes to the military, a lot of times (I didn't say "ALL") the "best" will win out, even if it does cost more... It's really all over the board, kinda like any other place...

I'm sure there are a few instances of actual "lowest bidder" in there somewhere... but you know how some people just love to pick up something and run with it. Kinda like how the leftists like to scream "racist" at every single person who dares to have a different opinion... just because there happens to be a few actual racists out there...
Agreed, the lowest bidder may be true when buying commodities like bulk toilet paper, mattresses, and coffee cups, but "lowest bidder" is almost never factor when selecting a DESIGN. In cases where nepotism, corruption, etc. are not the deciding factor, decisions are made by selecting the most COMPETITIVE proposal that MEETS THE DESIGN SPECIFICATIONS. Competitive means all sorts of things from cost, benefits, exceeding certain design criteria, etc.

Also, once a particular design has exceeded it patent protection or the design is owned by the federal government (Colt M16/AR15) you will see competitions to produce an already established design where cost may be the most significant factor, but again, its not the cheapest, it's the manufacture who can meet the specified design criteria for the lowest cost. Even then it usually isn't that simple. The offers are evaluated on a COMPETITIVE basis, meaning overall value to include spare parts, accessory kits, conjunction with factory overhaul contracts for existing units, equipment buy-backs, company CEO is a senator's brother in law, etc.
 

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Only a retard would make a useless statement like the above. The reason they did that was to show how much cooler the bolt was during a heavy firing session. In a Di gun that heat shortens the service life of the bolt and carrier.

Please move along and let the adults discuss. You apparently have nothing of value to offer in this discussion.
I know a moron in Ia that is a useless turd of a cop. You a cop also?
 
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