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I was thinking about gas shortage and emp's. I have the book Lights Out and The Grid and thinking about a emp and gas shortage. Could the middle east countries that produces fuel decide to stop sending fuel to the US/ North America? What would happen if that happened would it be like a emp? I know the US does some if not mistaken and have found places in the ocean to do this but have not done anything. Any countries would send fuel to us? I have heard or some people have said that Isreal has the largest fuel(whatever want to say) but still in the beginning stage and to me does make sense bc of the area and think they would help us.
 

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Let the Debate begin
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Currently we should be able to exist on oil from North America, and we don't need to import Natural gas either.

If things get tighter, we can import from South America.
 

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that canadian oil already came to us, it bottlenecks at Cushing, OK. THE KEYSTONE project would allow canada access to the world market, generally a higher price since it would no longer be a captive us market. Keystone was all about higher prices for Canadian oil.
 

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reluctant sinner
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Good luck with getting any help from the rest of the world, as soon as we quit sending them food and money they stab us in the back.

Grid down for what ever reason is going to suck for most people. No electric pumps means no fresh water, gas, air conditioning and freezers/refrigerators. Lot of places have sewage pumps to move the stuff to the treatment plants which also uses pumps.

Staying warm in the winter will be a job with just a saw and an ax. Pressure canning your own food will be a handy skill and supplies to have.
 

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Always thinking
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I don't think it's as much the raw material (crude oil) as it is the refinery capacity. I seem to recall that the refineries in this country have been steadily closing and that there are only a few left. ...somebody want to weigh in with a few facts?.... my info is based on hearsay.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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Sgt. Oddball
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I don't think it's as much the raw material (crude oil) as it is the refinery capacity. I seem to recall that the refineries in this country have been steadily closing and that there are only a few left. ...somebody want to weigh in with a few facts?.... my info is based on hearsay.
The facts are on the highways in the form of gasoline trucks. They're not hauling that from just a few refineries.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm
 

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Most us refinery capacity is more than simple distillation, it has more sophisticated catalytic cracking or hydro cracking for low quality crude. The fracked oil now produced is sweet and light so the new refineries are more basic. But now that us crude exports are allowed again they will be in competition with foreign refineries, many that can't handle low quality crude so have to pay a premium for sweet crude. The US refineries export a lot of refined oil, we will see if that drops because foreign refineries can get sweet us crude now. As the article says there have been no new us refineries for a while. But existing refineries upgrade and expands there is no shortage.
Has anyone noticed diesel is cheaper than gas again? Why?
 

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Currently there are supertankers with oil back logged of off loading I think along the east coast.
In the event of an emp strike your cars computer would be fried.
So you need a press 70's car to keep mobile
 

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Ingloriously Deplorable
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Having fuel isn't going to be much comfort if the electrical grid is down. If you read Ted's book, remember the chapter about Large Power Transformers? There is no 'standard' model. Most are made elsewhere. quite a few are so large they cannot be shipped normally. Some were installed decades ago and the rail lines used to get them there originally no longer exist. Without power you're not pumping jack.... our of underground tanks or refining diddly....for a while.

Anyone know a man selling a horse?!??:eek:

OPEC, which includes Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and uh...five or so other abba-dabba countries have the bulk of 'reserves'. Canada is third at 175,000 and the US is at 11 with 36,000. These are proven reserves but don't include potential reserves. Or so I've been told. Five out of the top 15 refineries are US company owned. India has the largest and there's two in South Korea that surpass that output. Provided we still have shipping.....

A Breitbart article based on 2012 numbers say the US has larger reserves than Saudi. mebbe so...or not.

I'm thinking should the place go all Red Dawn, we'll be like Gilligan's Island...(no one's coming to help. Loot maybe...):D:
 

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Prices would be insane, but as mentioned, we have our own supplies.

But it's not just about the oil itself.

I think the larger problem might be refineries. There's about 140 operating in the U.S.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6

In the case of any large scale, (and by large scale I mean even just regional), outages of power such that a few of these can't operate, we'd have major shortages at any price. Why? Because we're brittle. We may have become highly efficient, but that means any disruption is going to ripple quickly. It's likely the case that if a major refinery, (let's say Newark, NJ area), was down for more than a handful of days, we'd start getting some panic. I don't know how long it would take, but over probably no more than a handful of weeks, those concerns will be found to be true.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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Having fuel isn't going to be much comfort if the electrical grid is down. If you read Ted's book, remember the chapter about Large Power Transformers? There is no 'standard' model. Most are made elsewhere. quite a few are so large they cannot be shipped normally. Some were installed decades ago and the rail lines used to get them there originally no longer exist. Without power you're not pumping jack.... our of underground tanks or refining diddly....for a while.

Anyone know a man selling a horse?!??:eek:

OPEC, which includes Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and uh...five or so other abba-dabba countries have the bulk of 'reserves'. Canada is third at 175,000 and the US is at 11 with 36,000. These are proven reserves but don't include potential reserves. Or so I've been told. Five out of the top 15 refineries are US company owned. India has the largest and there's two in South Korea that surpass that output. Provided we still have shipping.....

A Breitbart article based on 2012 numbers say the US has larger reserves than Saudi. mebbe so...or not.

I'm thinking should the place go all Red Dawn, we'll be like Gilligan's Island...(no one's coming to help. Loot maybe...):D:
Funny, I have a 12 V self priming gasoline pump I can use to pump gas from underground tanks. Guess it will all be mine then. :)
 

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Since Enron and energy deregulation all the refineries near me added their own big generators, even though there are big private cogens right next door. Expensive but I guess reliability was more important. I haven't been around for awhile so I don't know if they are still running off the grid but they did for years.
 

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Israel has claimed a reserve estimated to have billions of barrels worth, enough to make them energy self sufficient.

Problem is the reserve is in the Golan heights region and nobody, including the U.S., recognizes their claim to the land. Things are still steaming ahead regardless and if you see Genie energies advisory board it's not hard to figure out why. I've been watching the stock closely for about 8 months, GNE.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-stakes-claim-golan-after-oil-find-913890970
 
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