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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Forming a Type 3 Survival Group: Requirements Part 1

The type 3 survival group is where the group members intend to live at one live on one property during a SHTF or EOTWAWKI event and aftermath. Though they may be several separate families they must act and function as one extended family; not an easy task. It is not a new concept of course; in fact, it the strategy many European families, including my own, used in settling the dark and dangerous forests that are now the Midwest.

Over the last 30 years, I've watched many survival groups form, fraction and dissolve. About the only arrangement that worked is where group was already a "group" before it purchased the retreat land; where they formed common bonds of kinship and or friendship decades before and where, usually quite literally, one big family. I see this quite prominently in my small community.

Meeting on the net and making this work with them is pretty much impossibility and getting financially knit together with people you do not know well is never a good idea and could be very dangerous.

Most survivalists that have already made the move out of the cities, soon realize the need for a group of people to depend on- a retreat group or survival group- to up there own chances of survival. A lone family will not have the manpower to post a 24/7 security, let alone all the skill sets necessary for long term survival. Rural survivalists need to network and develop a retreat group for the purpose of having extra folks for help and security at their retreat when the time comes. If done correctly, this sort of arrangement can work and be beneficial to both parties. The big city survivalist now has a bug out location he can escape to and the country survivalist now has extra help around for security, food production efforts, etc. This is the Group retreat strategy I have and it seems the one that usually works best in the long term.

Dangers and disadvantages
1. First and foremost the country survivalist must be VERY careful in selection of prospects.
a. Consider that you will be living with these people for a long period of time, under difficult circumstances.
b. If you can't stand to be around anyone of them for a long weekend, he's going to be impossible to live with for an extended period of time.
2. Most people can and will "fake it" to some extent during your first initial meetings.
a. Spouses and children will be on there best behavior.
b. Serious family issues, abuse of alcohol, racism and religious biogenesis will be hidden.
c. I believe that time is the only thing that will expose these issues to be seen.
d. Look for any warning signals during the first initial meetings; take your time and proceed with caution if and when these signals arise.
3. Communicate your requirements for the group.
a. Do not include information that would be a security risk to you or is unnecessarily personal at this point.
b. Have a general guideline of what is expected in terms of behavior, responsibilities, conduct, and material contributions.
c. Go in with the understanding that some of this will be negotiated compromises and will, likely, have to be revised from time to time.
d. Have the list of guidelines in written form when you discuss it and have a signoff procedure so no one can always claim; "I don't remember that".

Forming a Type 3 Survival Group: Requirements Part 2
Just what sort of requirements for the group should you communicate your prospective members and how would you lay them out?
1. Requirements for group participation-
a. Time requirements- meetings & exercisers- times per month or quarter
i. To discuss group issues and projects
ii. For group security practice and maneuvers, fire arms practice
iii. Maintenance and repair of the retreat if appropriate.
b. Weapons, gear and supply requirements should also be laid out
i. What weapons types and calibers are acceptable
ii. How many rounds of ammunition for each firearm, and what form (loose rounds, minimum in bandoleer & stripper clips, stored in ammo cans
iii. How much food each family should have.
iv. What types of camping, military and personal gear are required.
v. When the requirements need to be completed.
c. All monetary requirements per person or family per year
i. To help cover the costs of ammunition and materials for training events.
ii. To help with property taxes, up keep and improvements.

2. Acceptable behavior amongst group members and outsiders
a. You may not be able to legislate ethics and morality but discipline must be maintained and you can define minimum requirements, expectation and the consequences of violating the rules.
b. How members shall share in the labor essential tasks and in the support the defense of the community in a survival situation.
c. Many people simply to not share our basic Christian concept of behavior, morality and ethics and these issues must be brought out, sorted out and, where possible, compromises and agreements made.
d. Family units should be respected and held responsible for their members.
e. Recreational intoxication with drugs and alcohol must be addressed.
f. Some governing structure should be provided, we are Americans and we expect say in our lives but this must be tempered by the fact that we are in survival mode where leaders must be able to make vital decidedness quickly.


The reasoning behind laying these things out is that you may very well be living with these people for an extended period of time, possibly years, in tense, if not desperate, circumstances. You MUST be able to trust and live with them. People are going to get irritable and upset with one another. This is human nature. You are going to have argument and temper blow ups; they must be handled. A group is much more like an extended family than a military unit but there maybe times when drill sergeants will be necessary. In general though, the “hairy, chest thumper” will not be long tolerated.

Bad behavior should not be ignored. It will send a wrong signal to both the group and the one doing it. It will cause the harboring resentment against him, and your leadership, as well as, bad example for you other member, especially the children.

In short, true Christian behavior is the key to the survival of your survival group; forbearance, tolerance, tact. Listen patiently and carefully, speak softly and with thought, be quick to apologize, and quicker to forgive.
Peter asked Jesus how many times we should forgive our brother and Peter suggested the number 7. But Jesus said that we should forgive, not 7 times, but 70 times 7. Matthew 18:21

You are Survivalists, yes, but you are Christians first. When you get to the other side, whether it be 6 months or 6 years, you need to have your family survive in more than flesh and blood.
 

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WB edited
In short, true Christian behavior is the key to the survival of your survival group; forbearance, tolerance, tact. Listen patiently and carefully, speak softly and with thought, be quick to apologize, and quicker to forgive.
Good post - how have you been?
 

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Good Bye
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Great post! good to see you back on the boards again!
 

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Son Of Liberty
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Great post!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks WolfBrother and all. I have been having a hard winter so far and haven’t done much real posting. Fell too, putting my big toe out of joint but my wife was able to put it back. Painful but I am pleased she did it so well. Then I caught on thing after another without ever really be well. Found enough herbal tinctures to mix immune stimulant C and neither my wife or I have been sick since (about a week so far).
I hope that anyone serious about long term survival take the time to learn to grow, process and formulate medicinal herbs from their area of the country.
 

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Thanks for the post.
I think you really hit the central point, about this type of arrangement and even then it takes a lot of hard work at keeping things going>>

About the only arrangement that worked is where group was already a "group" before it purchased the retreat land; where they formed common bonds of kinship and or friendship decades before and where, usually quite literally, one big family.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
it takes a lot of hard work at keeping things going

We started as just two young families in the early 80s went through some tough times after the USSR came apart (the Wicked Witch is Dead Syndrome) but weathered it and now have most of our children’s families in. Living and working together as one big family is not easy but can work. Tolerance and tact are the keys. When John goes on a tirade or pontificates “how it should be done”, we can just roll our eyes, knowing that it is just John being John. That is why we have a mechanism for voting (instead of using the 2x4 that we would sometimes like to use).
 

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230gr, I remember a while back at the other forum that you started with this type of article and then proceeded slowly on putting out more and more info concerning this matter. It was great and I hope that you are going to do the same here. Not all things I agreed with but I felt that the idea and philosophy behind it was good info for everybody, and I felt that it brought out some interesting/great discussions.
Keep the good info flowing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I felt that it brought out some interesting/great discussions.
Thanks Sweetpea. I was only able to transfer a fraction of my better old SurvivalForum to SurvivalTalk before it bit the big one. But new people might still find them interesting. I have a number of them on the subject of Setting up a Survival Group. I could post a few here if there is a response.



Not all things I agreed with but I felt that the idea and philosophy behind it was good info for everybody
One of the things I like best at ST and here is you can discuss ideas without getting flamed or trolled.
Ideas, even ones you don’t agree with, give you options to pick and choose from. I consider that of great value.
 

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Forming a Type 3 Survival Group: Requirements Part 1

The type 3 survival group is where the group members intend to live at one live on one property during a SHTF or EOTWAWKI event and aftermath. Though they may be several separate families they must act and function as one extended family; not an easy task. It is not a new concept of course; in fact, it the strategy many European families, including my own, used in settling the dark and dangerous forests that are now the Midwest.

Over the last 30 years, I've watched many survival groups form, fraction and dissolve. About the only arrangement that worked is where group was already a "group" before it purchased the retreat land; where they formed common bonds of kinship and or friendship decades before and where, usually quite literally, one big family. I see this quite prominently in my small community.

Meeting on the net and making this work with them is pretty much impossibility and getting financially knit together with people you do not know well is never a good idea and could be very dangerous.

Most survivalists that have already made the move out of the cities, soon realize the need for a group of people to depend on- a retreat group or survival group- to up there own chances of survival. A lone family will not have the manpower to post a 24/7 security, let alone all the skill sets necessary for long term survival. Rural survivalists need to network and develop a retreat group for the purpose of having extra folks for help and security at their retreat when the time comes. If done correctly, this sort of arrangement can work and be beneficial to both parties. The big city survivalist now has a bug out location he can escape to and the country survivalist now has extra help around for security, food production efforts, etc.
This is the Group retreat strategy I have and it seems the one that usually works best in the long term.

Dangers and disadvantages
1. First and foremost the country survivalist must be VERY careful in selection of prospects.
a. Consider that you will be living with these people for a long period of time, under difficult circumstances.
b. If you can't stand to be around anyone of them for a long weekend, he's going to be impossible to live with for an extended period of time.
2. Most people can and will "fake it" to some extent during your first initial meetings.
a. Spouses and children will be on there best behavior.

b. Serious family issues, abuse of alcohol, racism and religious biogenesis will be hidden.
c. I believe that time is the only thing that will expose these issues to be seen.
d. Look for any warning signals during the first initial meetings; take your time and proceed with caution if and when these signals arise.
3. Communicate your requirements for the group.
a. Do not include information that would be a security risk to you or is unnecessarily personal at this point.
b. Have a general guideline of what is expected in terms of behavior, responsibilities, conduct, and material contributions.
c. Go in with the understanding that some of this will be negotiated compromises and will, likely, have to be revised from time to time.
d. Have the list of guidelines in written form when you discuss it and have a signoff procedure so no one can always claim; "I don't remember that".

Forming a Type 3 Survival Group: Requirements Part 2
Just what sort of requirements for the group should you communicate your prospective members and how would you lay them out?
1. Requirements for group participation-
a. Time requirements- meetings & exercisers- times per month or quarter
i. To discuss group issues and projects
ii. For group security practice and maneuvers, fire arms practice
iii. Maintenance and repair of the retreat if appropriate.
b. Weapons, gear and supply requirements should also be laid out
i. What weapons types and calibers are acceptable
ii. How many rounds of ammunition for each firearm, and what form (loose rounds, minimum in bandoleer & stripper clips, stored in ammo cans
iii. How much food each family should have.
iv. What types of camping, military and personal gear are required.
v. When the requirements need to be completed.
c. All monetary requirements per person or family per year
i. To help cover the costs of ammunition and materials for training events.
ii. To help with property taxes, up keep and improvements.

2. Acceptable behavior amongst group members and outsiders
a. You may not be able to legislate ethics and morality
but discipline must be maintained and you can define minimum requirements, expectation and the consequences of violating the rules.
b. How members shall share in the labor essential tasks and in the support the defense of the community in a survival situation.
c. Many people simply to not share our basic Christian concept of behavior, morality and ethics and these issues must be brought out, sorted out and, where possible, compromises and agreements made.
d. Family units should be respected and held responsible for their members.
e. Recreational intoxication with drugs and alcohol must be addressed.
f. Some governing structure should be provided, we are Americans and we expect say in our lives but this must be tempered by the fact that we are in survival mode where leaders must be able to make vital decidedness quickly.


The reasoning behind laying these things out is that you may very well be living with these people for an extended period of time, possibly years
, in tense, if not desperate, circumstances. You MUST be able to trust and live with them. People are going to get irritable and upset with one another. This is human nature. You are going to have argument and temper blow ups; they must be handled. A group is much more like an extended family than a military unit but there maybe times when drill sergeants will be necessary. In general though, the “hairy, chest thumper” will not be long tolerated.

Bad behavior should not be ignored. It will send a wrong signal to both the group and the one doing it.
It will cause the harboring resentment against him, and your leadership, as well as, bad example for you other member, especially the children.

In short, true Christian behavior is the key to the survival of your survival group; forbearance, tolerance, tact. Listen patiently and carefully, speak softly and with thought, be quick to apologize, and quicker to forgive.
Peter asked Jesus how many times we should forgive our brother and Peter suggested the number 7. But Jesus said that we should forgive, not 7 times, but 70 times 7. Matthew 18:21

You are Survivalists, yes, but you are Christians first. When you get to the other side, whether it be 6 months or 6 years, you need to have your family survive in more than flesh and blood.
Very interesting...... Hmmmm... Looks just like something I read somewhere else.... I'm PM'ing you. I'll give you a couple days to reply back before I reply further to this thread of "yours" :taped:
 

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Thanks for a well written article. I liked how you pointed out the benefits to those both "on" the farm and those in the "city. I'm no farmer but I've helped friends who were and had live stock. A working farm gives a whole new meaning to "tied to the land". Its a true calling for those who take it up.
Not only is it important that the people involved know each other over time. It is just as important that "romantic" notions of life on the farm be matched with a least a week on the "farm". For those without this understanding/knowledge do not be surprised by the number of friends and family members who will bolt the farm/retreat for a Fema "camp" if given a choice. An informed choice is a commitment, a forced (by shtf)choice will almost always be temporary.
 

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it tickles dont it
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Looks just like something I read somewhere else
took me a bit to look around my favorite links but shooo enough......i found it....

as my favorite forum always says....

tango alpha golf for the outcome......;)


eta:

whats a level 1 group.....bunch of fatties meeting at sonnys BBQ talking about the nwo and their 2 cases of MRE's??
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Note on Forming a Type 3 Survival Group:
Also, you used some of my writing *verbatim.
You may well be correct Mr. Henry. When I research an article, I go all over the internet to gather information and square my ideas against opinions that I respect (and Robert Henry is certainly one). I have no regard for credit as my only goal is to present ideas and “how to” articles that may benefit the survival / perpper community at large.
I have no objection to my articles being reprinted in part or whole as that meets my goals sharing. I have no financial stake in doing so and mainly on projects of use to my group and simply post them where others might benefit. As this was part of an multi part series on type 1, 2 and 3 groups and was written years ago for another forum, I know longer any of my original sources. Never the less, credit should be given where credit is due and omitting it is a personal failing of mine. To this end, I amend this post.

Reference:
Robert Henry, Survival Report
 

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Note on Forming a Type 3 Survival Group:

You may well be correct Mr. Henry. When I research an article, I go all over the internet to gather information and square my ideas against opinions that I respect (and Robert Henry is certainly one). I have no regard for credit as my only goal is to present ideas and “how to” articles that may benefit the survival / perpper community at large.
I have no objection to my articles being reprinted in part or whole as that meets my goals sharing. I have no financial stake in doing so and mainly on projects of use to my group and simply post them where others might benefit. As this was part of an multi part series on type 1, 2 and 3 groups and was written years ago for another forum, I know longer any of my original sources. Never the less, credit should be given where credit is due and omitting it is a personal failing of mine. To this end, I amend this post.

Reference:
Robert Henry, Survival Report
No I AM correct, but thanks for the half hearted response. :thumb: The text I put in BOLD in my first reply to this thread (3-4 responses up) came directly from my old blog site. This was the stuff I didn't even need to search for.

I'm glad to be of help and as I stated in the PM to you, which I didn't really get a reply to, I have no problem with someone re-posting anything I wrote. But Everyone appreciates common courtesy wherein you state the source of the information you are re-posting from. I've been through this before, from the jerks in MO, IL and even the idiot close to home from Florida (busted in person, that was fun :D: ) that were copying my old newsletters from the late 80's and early 90's and SELLING them at gunshows, to the guys that copied my shortwave radio show tapes from 1998-2000 and SOLD them. :mad:

If you had no "regard for credit" you would have 1. Posted originally that it was not YOUR work and 2. corrected the people that responded to your OP and acted like this was your work.

We all screw up, God knows I do quite a bit. It's what we do AFTER we screw up that shows our character :thumb:

Thanks for the reply on this thread. :thumb:

Robert/Lowdown3
 

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Looking at the situation, the ONLY existing group I know that has the type of cohesivenesses to make it work is the crew at the salvage yard i work at. We are like a bunch of Pirates with some seriously bad ass leaders who can rule with physical prowis as much as the authority of leadership. We have a clear chain of command, and everyone from the floor sweeper all the way up to the owner are very capable and talented individuals wit a large and diverse number of skills (Give us a few junk cars and we can make anything).

None of my freinds, or family have this. If I were to pull my oldest freinds together, all hell might break loose and we'd all end up dead arguing over who was calling the shots. At work the power structure is already solidly in place and we are all used to working with each other. Even when we are fighting, we get the job done (and knock down drag out fights do occasionally occur at work).

There is immense respect and trust for the owner and managers there. Everyone's opinion is up for expression, and they generally take everyones thoughts into account and make the right decisions. Also, the crazy insane work environment is not unlike the extreme pressures we might face in a survival situation. As a team, we are used to the high pressure and getting the job done under that pressure.

My martial arts friends *Might* have that, if we were all together when it happened, but in all honesty as a group we just don't have the sheer do anything, build anything skill base as the guys form work do. We know how to fight better yes, but we as a group don't have the wide and varied adaptability and skill sets.

I am not sure where I am even going with this, just kind of rambling on as I can't sleep tonight due to a long nap earlier.
 

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it tickles dont it
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No I AM correct, but thanks for the half hearted response. :thumb: The text I put in BOLD in my first reply to this thread (3-4 responses up) came directly from my old blog site. This was the stuff I didn't even need to search for.

I'm glad to be of help and as I stated in the PM to you, which I didn't really get a reply to, I have no problem with someone re-posting anything I wrote. But Everyone appreciates common courtesy wherein you state the source of the information you are re-posting from. I've been through this before, from the jerks in MO, IL and even the idiot close to home from Florida (busted in person, that was fun :D: ) that were copying my old newsletters from the late 80's and early 90's and SELLING them at gunshows, to the guys that copied my shortwave radio show tapes from 1998-2000 and SOLD them. :mad:

If you had no "regard for credit" you would have 1. Posted originally that it was not YOUR work and 2. corrected the people that responded to your OP and acted like this was your work.

We all screw up, God knows I do quite a bit. It's what we do AFTER we screw up that shows our character :thumb:

Thanks for the reply on this thread. :thumb:

Robert/Lowdown3
ya know.
when i was in school...and in college. If we turned in a paper. Written like the OPs here . Do you know what happened.
you'd fail and possibly get sent on to the dean.
Now days it seems copy written material re posted with out permission or proper acknowledgment is getting not only those posting it in hot water but also the forums that allow it.
Kinda like all those sites allowing "lights out" to still be on them.Even though the author has openly requested all "internet" copies/links be removed.
Oh well off to research a topic and do the one paragraph for me...one for you....one for me....one for you....for my next blog entry...:rolleyes::rofl:
 

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From my perspective. I think there is some good advice in the article - whoever wrote it.
One thing I would say though is that there are christians and christians. There are
some people who get to church and claim to be christians but say things that are
most unchristian. Also, there are others who have never been to church and don't profess
to follow a religion yet are morally impecccable. I think what we need in the 'type 3'
survival group is the morally impeccable people whether they go to church or not.

Currently I have only three people in my group. I have lots of friends but many of them
don't get the point in prepping and some would not be an asset.
 
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