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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been thinking about this for a few days now. Those who are fortunate enough to be homesteading will be able to eat without worry and also likely heat their homes. They can likely get to where the one thing they have to pay for is taxes and maybe mortgage. Those of us in towns (I would think it is back to slums in the big cities) are limited in our self-sufficiency. How are we mitigating that?

I don't believe we will be seeing a mad max scenario, but with the economy pushing towards a depression (and the politicians are going to fight down the party lines to the death no matter the consequences) and it will effect us in the cities differently then those in the rurals. I think we can assume that many will still have jobs, but the jobs won't provide as much with rising costs.

What is your plan for food? A garden is obvious, but space is limiting. I know where to get milk, eggs, butter, apples, meat, and strawberries locally and don't believe those people will shaft me, but will want something in return. If cash is limited what can I give? Can I make the apples and strawberries last the whole year? How can I max out my yard for garden space and still leave room for the dog to poo and the kid to play? The last three questions are for me, no need to answer.

How will I heat my house if gas gets too expensive? Our house is fairly well insulated, but I need a heat source. Like many in town I rent so I can't add a wood stove. I have to be reliant on the furnace, electric space heaters, and kerosene heaters. How many kerosene heaters should I have and what is my plan for partitioning the house to heat what is necessary during the winter? How can I keep my pipes from freezing? Yadda yadda yadda.

What will I do if water is temporary unavailable or undrinkable? Do I have a temporary supply if water and a safe source for more? I have friends with springs so this is not an issue for me, but it is a concern for us in the city.

What will I do for entertainment once I can't afford cable or Internet? We ditched cable, but obviously I enjoy spending time online. What will I do for relaxation? Where will I get information since my local library is beyond useless?

What can I do to limit my having to choose which utility to keep on. Could I eliminate "having" to have electricity by getting a small solar system that will get juice to the necessary things? What really is necessary? Could I learn to cook using only a solar oven and a fire pit?

If barter becomes more common (which I believe it will) what will I have to offer in exchange for the things I want? Will people trade items in exchange for simple homemade clothes and alterations? Will someone give lentils in exchange for building them a solar oven?

These are just some of the thoughts I have been having lately. What are you doing to prepare for a depression type scenario while staying in town?
 

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I have been thinking about this for a few days now. Those who are fortunate enough to be homesteading will be able to eat without worry
I think you need to read ferfal's blog............ maybe the news too, crop and livestock theft is rife and would only get worse in the scenario you present. People regardless of how stupid the majority are won't just sit there watching Jerry Springer waiting for the food trucks, I can't foresee the majority going after food growing in peoples yards or gardens either, not until things got too desperate, the easiest option "allotments" (in the uk) or head out fo the city to the surrounding area's where there are fewer witnesses to the crime being commited and less chance of getting caught or hurt.

You can grow a surprising amount of food with limited space with proper planning. Even guerrila gardening roots veg such as swede, carrots and potatoes is worth a shot :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't mean to imply that there would be no difficulty in homesteaders having food only that they have a built in means of food. Obviously they will work to raise and secure it.

I plan to have a rather large garden next year (small practice this year). We have less then a thousand square feet of useable yard and plan to use almost all of it next year. Root veggies are expected to be a large part as will squashes. I do think I can provide a good chunk of our food this way, but I doubt all of it. Even if I can get close to all it seems prudent to have a backup plan for something as important as food. If I put effort into getting two years food each year I will hopefully get enough for one at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Leave now. Do whatever it takes.
I would love to not live in town (fortunately it is only a 6,000 people town and not a city), but at this time it isn't an option. Our current circumstances are such that being able to perform our ministry to the best of our abilities involves staying put. We also have people in the congregation who would be reliant on the help we could give if we stay put. We keep our eyes out for property around here that we can afford, but right now there isn't any. Here locally people have found they can make more money renting out the farmland to corporations then selling or renting to people. Like I said I am not expecting Mad max I am expecting a variation on 1930s America.

We do have a bug out plan to a family farm if things get bad enough. Our family group is working on converting part of the land to a campground with campers for just such a possibility. If things go well then we can go camping without sleeping in tents and using the outhouse. If they don't we are all on a functioning farm where we already spend lots of time and with people we can trust and who can live together peacefully.

Unless it becomes neccesary, however, we are staying put and trying to do our part here.
 

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I would love to not live in town (fortunately it is only a 6,000 people town and not a city), but at this time it isn't an option. Our current circumstances are such that being able to perform our ministry to the best of our abilities involves staying put. We also have people in the congregation who would be reliant on the help we could give if we stay put. We keep our eyes out for property around here that we can afford, but right now there isn't any. Here locally people have found they can make more money renting out the farmland to corporations then selling or renting to people. Like I said I am not expecting Mad max I am expecting a variation on 1930s America.

We do have a bug out plan to a family farm if things get bad enough. Our family group is working on converting part of the land to a campground with campers for just such a possibility. If things go well then we can go camping without sleeping in tents and using the outhouse. If they don't we are all on a functioning farm where we already spend lots of time and with people we can trust and who can live together peacefully.

Unless it becomes neccesary, however, we are staying put and trying to do our part here.
You may have unknowingly answered some of your concerns, you have a congregation, I can be safe to say that many of you are in the same boat, form together and prepare as a group. If things do go south you will have the benefit of being able to help each other. It sounds like a small town, are there farmers in you congregation? Get the group together and find what skills each has and as a group decide how best to use these to prepare. Good Luck.
 

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When your lease is up start looking for a rental with a fireplace, maybe even a well. If you're stuck in the city at least look for a place to live that gives you the best chance to survive.
 

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Keeper of Tomes
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It may seem weird but i would do my best to blend in. If things get really bad joiing a gang isnt a bad survival stategy. If everyone is looting. I'd be looting. and so on. I'd go with the flow.
 

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You just don't join a gang without something being expected. You have to proof yourself by doing dirt or worse. Make sure you join the one on top and that it has the most resources.

The gangs will be looking for straight up killers and people with nothing to lose. They won't want no one with kids or a person looking for someone to take care of them.

A religious group would be your best bet.There will be some elite groups being formed, but will require a lot of skills and knowing the right people.
 

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I have a friend who lives deep in the city, her employment holds her there.
She has thought of the same thing. Options are limited once the situation changes.
She is resourceful, but the city is large and unpredictable.

It's possible to prep as much as space will permit, utilize any outside space (balcony/patio) for container gardening, and use a portapottie, camp stove, and camp gear for self sufficiency. A water filtering device would be priceless if tap water was somewhat available. PM's in smaller quantities (silver) would be beneficial.
These items would help a bit in a city dwelling scenario.

That said, I'm not confident about longevity in the city... if the city folk decide to leave the city and seek supplies elsewhere, it would mean that the city itself has been pretty much depleted. Including one's personal space.
I think the best option would be to leave the city as soon as you can.
It's the same advice I give my friend...
 

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Keeper of Tomes
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You just don't join a gang without something being expected. You have to proof yourself by doing dirt or worse. Make sure you join the one on top and that it has the most resources.

The gangs will be looking for straight up killers and people with nothing to lose. They won't want no one with kids or a person looking for someone to take care of them.

A religious group would be your best bet.There will be some elite groups being formed, but will require a lot of skills and knowing the right people.
Religious groups, gangs, armies, tribes.... same thing. Joining a group is much better then sitting at home waiting to be victimized. You have safety in numbers weather thats thugs or bible thumpers.
 

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Liberty or Death
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Cities have two distinct advantages WTSHTF.

1) Cities populations will drastically decrease as people "head for the hills". You could live on a city block with 50% of homes/apartments deserted. Anyone looking for shelter will have no problem finding it.
In the country and rural areas, there will be a massive population increase. Anyone who wants shelter is going to have to fight for it, or kill for it.


2) Cities are cities for good reasons. They are usually strategically located on a railroad, river, port, etc. (the only exception I can think of is D.C.). Cities will be where the most rebuilding resources will be concentrated. Louisville, where i live, thrived on traffic on the ohio river 100 years ago. I don't see any reason why we can't go back to that.
 

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If the shtf the government owns everything. Everything goes up for grabs. Your farm is not really yours since it can be taking for taxes or just seized by the government. City people plan on raiding and taking property they need.Many will just squat where ever they can. Anywhere they can find water and dry ground is where they will set up their tents.

Once the riots start the people with any money or transportation will flee the cities by the thousands.The city and suburbs will turn into ghettos.Sounds like some on here plan on shooting the ones running out of the cities for help.The entitlement people won't leave until everything is gone and there is no more hand outs. The government should take all land away and redistribute it among the people in a fair way.
 

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The thing that stuck out to me the most from what you have been writing is that you are looking for solutions to your proposed problems through the dynamics of your current situation. You are looking for a way to have the same life in a completely different situation. Think of it as 5= the current economic situation you are in. 4= your current living conditions. 5+4=9 (Your current lifestyle). You are talking about changing the #5 your current economic situation to a 3. 3+4=7 not 9.
Life all around us will be different in the situation you are describing. That is why we prep. Some prep to survive but most of us prep to make a life that will be worth living when others are simply trying to survive. Where you are is a result of the decisions you have made so far. Try looking at the situation you are describing through a business theory called “Sunk Costs”. Take yourself out of the situation and ignore everything you have done and put into getting where you are out of the thought process. People have a hard time doing this is why we have the saying “Throwing good money after bad”. They invested $x,xxx.00 into this so they are going to throw more money at it trying to save what they have already spent.
My suggestion is take the situation you have imagined and say if I had been set back to zero and were just starting out again what would I do in that situation. If it would be move back in with family for a while and get back on my feet than if that situation happens then that is what you should do. If it says take some other course of action such as move to a different town then that is what you should do. The thought process that life will always be the same is why you will have people looting Wally World and taking big screen TV’s and walking right past the cases of food their kids need.
This is kind of an abstract way of looking at things if you have never done it before. I apologize if it didn’t come through very clear. The basics are Look at things with an open mind and take out your bias as much as possible. What is already spent and done has no bearing on what you should do in the future. You have to look at each and every decision on its own merit so you don’t stick with a bad plan just because that is the way you have been doing it. Ever work for a company that keeps doing something stupid because that is the way they have always done it. Same idea.
 

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Prep to survive for 1 to 2 years in your current location. Be prepared to leave if you have to. Your church: watch and carefully see who thinks like you do and mention a few things, if they don't recoil in horror thinking you are "militant Christian" then see if you can also have them prep if they aren't already. Mention in your sermons for your people to have their 72 hour and 90 day plans. The mormons do this. (No I am not one). The Bible tells us to be prepared. If you are the preacher, it is your responsibility to make sure your people are hearing that the Bible does say, not what you think it says. Give them the verses. Make your church a strong church! If you are doing this in your own life you will also be preparing a place that you can take your church to JUST IN CASE. I am not talking about buying a place. I am talking about knowing at leave 5 different location you can bug out to when living where you are just is no longer possible. This is a worse case scenario. You need to plan for the worse possible situation and then live thru it. After all, it is only a plan and that is what we as preppers are suppose to be doing.

I live in the suburbs. Most here would plan to head to the mountains as their BOL. The mountains are the CO Rockies. How many do you know who plan to do that? Wouldn't you think to do that also? Nope, not me. Millions will be flocking to the mountains. I plan to Bug-in until it is no longer possible to stay then heading east to a few water sources I know of but haven't gotten so far in my planning that I "know" where to go for sure. That is something I have to work on.

YOU need to do the same, for you, for your family and for those in your congregation you trust to go with you. TRUST? You don't want them to slice your throat and take your stuff because you trusted wrong. Sorry, in a SHTF scenario, good people freak out and do bad things so their babies are fed. That is just human nature. For those you don't trust with your life, they can go with you, but you never ever tell them everything you have and all the plans.

God go with you:)
 

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Cities have two distinct advantages WTSHTF.

1) Cities populations will drastically decrease as people "head for the hills". You could live on a city block with 50% of homes/apartments deserted. Anyone looking for shelter will have no problem finding it.
In the country and rural areas, there will be a massive population increase. Anyone who wants shelter is going to have to fight for it, or kill for it.


2) Cities are cities for good reasons. They are usually strategically located on a railroad, river, port, etc. (the only exception I can think of is D.C.). Cities will be where the most rebuilding resources will be concentrated. Louisville, where i live, thrived on traffic on the ohio river 100 years ago. I don't see any reason why we can't go back to that.
I have a good example of a city built on cheap oil and cheap water: Las Vegas. There is no reason why there should be a city in southern Nevada. It was originally a rail yard. DC was strategically located between "North" and "South". Same forces at play in the ACW. Most cities are located on rivers. Reno was located at the only good fording spot for many miles on the Truckee River. Humans have traditionally settled where there is water. The only examples I can think of where that's not the case is Vegas, Phoenix, and Tucson. Those places pipe in their water from manmade lakes.
 

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If the shtf the government owns everything. Everything goes up for grabs. Your farm is not really yours since it can be taking for taxes or just seized by the government. City people plan on raiding and taking property they need.Many will just squat where ever they can. Anywhere they can find water and dry ground is where they will set up their tents.

Once the riots start the people with any money or transportation will flee the cities by the thousands.The city and suburbs will turn into ghettos.Sounds like some on here plan on shooting the ones running out of the cities for help.The entitlement people won't leave until everything is gone and there is no more hand outs. The government should take all land away and redistribute it among the people in a fair way.
You've got to be joking---right??
 

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You ARE what you IS!
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If the shtf the government owns everything. Everything goes up for grabs. Your farm is not really yours since it can be taking for taxes or just seized by the government. City people plan on raiding and taking property they need.Many will just squat where ever they can. Anywhere they can find water and dry ground is where they will set up their tents.

Once the riots start the people with any money or transportation will flee the cities by the thousands.The city and suburbs will turn into ghettos.Sounds like some on here plan on shooting the ones running out of the cities for help.The entitlement people won't leave until everything is gone and there is no more hand outs. The government should take all land away and redistribute it among the people in a fair way.



Surely you jest!:xeye:
 

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How will I heat my house if gas gets too expensive? Our house is fairly well insulated, but I need a heat source. Like many in town I rent so I can't add a wood stove. I have to be reliant on the furnace, electric space heaters, and kerosene heaters. How many kerosene heaters should I have and what is my plan for partitioning the house to heat what is necessary during the winter? How can I keep my pipes from freezing? Yadda yadda yadda.
If you rent, be better hope that the owner of the property kepps it. I mean if the owner defaults on their loans and the property goes into foreclosure, your out on the street. There are laws going into effect that states, the bank can not just toss you out but if you are not able to comply with, lets say a rent increase then you are gone. I was reading an article about this in Illinois last summer. People still up to date on there rent but the owners not paying there mortgage.

What will I do if water is temporary unavailable or undrinkable? Do I have a temporary supply if water and a safe source for more? I have friends with springs so this is not an issue for me, but it is a concern for us in the city.
Look into water filtration products, get a rain barrel, locate a stream. I don't know if you know this but unlike money, water does fall from the sky.

What will I do for entertainment once I can't afford cable or Internet? We ditched cable, but obviously I enjoy spending time online. What will I do for relaxation? Where will I get information since my local library is beyond useless?
Learn to play cards, read a book (you could read during the day if there is no electricity) play a board game, if you have kids, play catch with them. Im sure even in a full depression, you'll be able to find a ball.

What can I do to limit my having to choose which utility to keep on. Could I eliminate "having" to have electricity by getting a small solar system that will get juice to the necessary things? What really is necessary? Could I learn to cook using only a solar oven and a fire pit?
Why do you need electricity? For 6.900 years people lived without electricity. We have only had it for about 100 years. I guess you will die if you can't run the A/C.

If barter becomes more common (which I believe it will) what will I have to offer in exchange for the things I want? Will people trade items in exchange for simple homemade clothes and alterations? Will someone give lentils in exchange for building them a solar oven?
How about if you bartered some labor, do some work for someone and they give you lentils or maybe some monetary payment. Once again, people survived for thousands of years without working a 40 our week.

Try reading 2 books by Ken Follett, Pillars of the Earth and World Without End. I know both of these books are fiction and they may not be the Sci-fi zombie stuff your use to but they give a very accurate account to how life, the economy, religion and day to day survival was during the Middle-Ages.

All of which you can translate into a full scale depression in modern times.

These are just some of the thoughts I have been having lately. What are you doing to prepare for a depression type scenario while staying in town?
For some of us, we are living in a depression already. Thank God some one else pays for my internet, and some days, I live in the local library.
 
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