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"Safe and blessed"
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First, I’d like to tender a sincere apology to Kev, the staff and the moderators as it would appear that my OP entitled “Thoughts on Sheeple and Walmart” has spawned a small scale war of “Sheeple” posts. THAT was not my intent! So if I’ve initiated enough mind-numbing drivel to last for a year I apologize, contributing to what I perceive as a less than optimal situation certainly was not what I set out to do.
That having been said, I confess that my original post on this subject was full of intent, and as I mentioned in that post it stemmed in part from curiosity…also concern, (as stated in that post I feel that a very real danger exists in this attitude of dismissing a whole group of folks arbitrarily)…and finally it was written from a desire to point out an area where we, as a community of preparedness oriented individuals, could improve.
You see I deliberately designed that post using some very basic advertizing principles, I gave it a title that would make you want to look, because the term “sheeple” does carry a certain stigma and often, we as human beings, tend to seek out opportunities to increase our self esteem by the dubious method of belittling others. And yes, while there are many who claim they have no regard for the labels that may be hung on them, I really must disagree. Somewhere in each one of us there is a desire to be thought well of by our fellow man. Whether or not we acknowledge it, it is the driver behind many of our actions IMHO. So…I gave you a flashy title, then I gave you a message…part of it was truthful and very sincere (the sheeple/danger factor). It carried a subtle note of controversy (the fact that I found the term offensive), and then to distract you from the real issue I gave you a shiny lure that I knew many would be unable to resist (Walmart)…ummm…I’m well aware of the issues regarding Walmart. If it offends you that my original post was an experiment…well it was the best way to prove my point that I could devise and for that I make no apology!
The point of this exercise!?! I’m going to let the stats speak for themselves; you can draw your own conclusions as to the existent irony I was attempting to point out. However, I do have a suggestion for the community and I will conclude with that.

Stats:

My OP http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=115820 posted one week ago 6/20/10 has now had 2,443 views and 107 replies, it grew rapidly with a lot of initial response – this was an utterly silly post that had very little to do with preparedness issues, with the exception of my original thought on the dangers of underestimating those called “sheeple”.

TMcArthur posted this excellent article on Situational Awareness: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=115994 on 6/22/10, it has received 154 views and 2 replies…

In all fairness, this post by gpracer1 http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=115516 on 6/18/10 has had 1,679 views and 101 replies, plenty good info here and it’s one of those “fun” kind of posts.

These are just a few examples to make my point, there are many, many posts on this forum that fit into the category of the second example I provided, TMcArthur’s post sharing an excellent article on situational awareness. I cannot even count the replies in my “sheeple” post that closely fit the profile that some posters so vehemently profess to be the very reasons they are so busy “sheeple bashing”. As for the “game threads” on this forum…I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with enjoying the aspects of this board that are included for pure entertainment, (you’ll find me in the chat room often) but really!?!. Have you looked at the stats on those!?!
Also, I’ve run across several comments in various posts slamming other posters that have admitted to only prepping for a few days, hey…we all start somewhere! That and the frequent response to a post topic that has been discussed previously typically consists of stating that the question or thought has already been posted and the old thread should be referenced. Frankly, I think revisiting an old preparedness issue and discussing it with a newcomer is far more productive than my “sheeple/walmart” post. The point I’m trying to make is that perhaps we as a community would better serve both ourselves and others if we shaped our words and our actions on this forum into a more inspiring and admirable atmosphere for those newcomers to prepping and those lurking around exploring what we are all about. Yes… I’ve heard most all the arguments and reasons for not attempting to educate others. And I do understand them; however I don’t necessarily agree that the attempt should not be made. I happen to believe there’s much to be said for leading by example…
 

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Thank you for a well written and interesting post. I am forced to take a somewhat detached and objective view due to a few thousand miles of ocean.

There is, as you so rightly say, a very real danger in lumping strangers into convenient group/boxes and dismissing them wholesale. There is the danger of under or over estimating such a groups abilities and actions and expecting them in this specific case to roll over and die after rushing around like the headless chicken.

We are looking at people, and every single one of them is different. In stress situations in particular, people do not behave in predictable or rational ways. Some lead, some follow, some panic, some pray, some abandon hope, some battle on but most will run the gamut of all of these often at the same time!
The only real advantage those involved with forums like this and the associated mindset is that we may have a slight cushion to allow us the luxury of time to observe, evaluate and make a more rational choice before we embark on our attempts to survive.
 

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I agree with you, sometimes confrontations should be avoided sometimes they should be engaged, just because someone walks away does not necessarily mean they are less of a man or a sheepal. Sometimes you need to pick your fights wisely and use your head rather then your emotions to make your decision.

If you look at the fighting in Iraq, Afganistan, Vietnam the reason it is hard for use to win is the enemy choose the fights. If they were to cavalry stand and fight, our boys would be home in a couple of weeks, but they strike and run, strike and run. Are they sheeple?? Most of the tactics that won our independence in this country were these strike and run tactics. Were our founders sheeple?? Even in the animal kingdom these rules apply. Bear, wolves, fox, mountain lion, ect dont attack every threat or more hunters would dead. I guess my point is if you chose your fights wisely you live to fight another day:thumb:.

Sometimes when these confrontations present themselves they catch you completely off guard (like happened to me recently) sometimes when your off guard it is best to disengage think about it whether it is worth the fight if it is, reengage on your terms rather then the confronters. Sometimes you feel like a sheep, sometimes it is what needs to be left alone.

In a survival situation if you engage every possible confrontation, (animal or human) you would be worm food very quickly.
Sorry for all the long posts, I dont even like to type.
 

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"Safe and blessed"
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Nicely put!

Thank you for a well written and interesting post. I am forced to take a somewhat detached and objective view due to a few thousand miles of ocean.

There is, as you so rightly say, a very real danger in lumping strangers into convenient group/boxes and dismissing them wholesale. There is the danger of under or over estimating such a groups abilities and actions and expecting them in this specific case to roll over and die after rushing around like the headless chicken.

We are looking at people, and every single one of them is different. In stress situations in particular, people do not behave in predictable or rational ways. Some lead, some follow, some panic, some pray, some abandon hope, some battle on but most will run the gamut of all of these often at the same time!
The only real advantage those involved with forums like this and the associated mindset is that we may have a slight cushion to allow us the luxury of time to observe, evaluate and make a more rational choice before we embark on our attempts to survive.
Hello Gav...as always it's a pleasure finding your voice in my thread! Couldn't have said it better myself! :)
Given your location and exposure to situations that maybe somewhat similar in many respects, I'm very interested in your POV in regards to possible solutions. Am I on the right track thinking it is possible for an individual or a small group of folks to make a difference? Really, when you put it into perspective what I'm suggesting in the OP is missionary work of a sort...
Curious to hear your thoughts on this...

Not that it would stop this stubborn nut from attempting it anyway!
 

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"Safe and blessed"
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Discussion Starter #8
Boy... you sure used a lot of words there.
Yes well I've been accused of being long-winded more than once, and for me this was rather brief and to the point lol :eek:

Just a thought...you wouldn't consider a walk of one block or a two length swim in the pool to be exercising your body would you? :rolleyes:
 

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"Safe and blessed"
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Discussion Starter #9
I agree with you, sometimes confrontations should be avoided sometimes they should be engaged, just because someone walks away does not necessarily mean they are less of a man or a sheepal. Sometimes you need to pick your fights wisely and use your head rather then your emotions to make your decision.

If you look at the fighting in Iraq, Afganistan, Vietnam the reason it is hard for use to win is the enemy choose the fights. If they were to cavalry stand and fight, our boys would be home in a couple of weeks, but they strike and run, strike and run. Are they sheeple?? Most of the tactics that won our independence in this country were these strike and run tactics. Were our founders sheeple?? Even in the animal kingdom these rules apply. Bear, wolves, fox, mountain lion, ect dont attack every threat or more hunters would dead. I guess my point is if you chose your fights wisely you live to fight another day:thumb:.

Sometimes when these confrontations present themselves they catch you completely off guard (like happened to me recently) sometimes when your off guard it is best to disengage think about it whether it is worth the fight if it is, reengage on your terms rather then the confronters. Sometimes you feel like a sheep, sometimes it is what needs to be left alone.

In a survival situation if you engage every possible confrontation, (animal or human) you would be worm food very quickly.
Sorry for all the long posts, I dont even like to type.
Turk...thanks for your reply, you've made some very valid points...most importantly one does need to choose one's battles carefully if given the option...sometimes you can be thrown into a battle you never even saw coming, been there recently myself and I agree that it's always best to fight those battles on your own terms!:thumb:
 

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Hello Gav...as always it's a pleasure finding your voice in my thread! Couldn't have said it better myself! :)
Given your location and exposure to situations that maybe somewhat similar in many respects, I'm very interested in your POV in regards to possible solutions. Am I on the right track thinking it is possible for an individual or a small group of folks to make a difference? Really, when you put it into perspective what I'm suggesting in the OP is missionary work of a sort...
Curious to hear your thoughts on this...

Not that it would stop this stubborn nut from attempting it anyway!
Yes, an individual or small group can make a difference but the extent of this is often limited by circumstance and the political, moral and social climate they are operating in.
Those who use their intelligence rather than vocal volume or denigration stand a much better chance. Showing and teaching by example, being willing to share and also respect the views of others and entering into a debate rather than an argument are simple tactics. The hardest part is getting the initial attention in a goldfish attention span world.
Remember, what is obvious and plain common sense to you can not only be incomprehensible to others but even step over their line of blasphemy To suggest, even for a moment, that, maybe, their comfortable little world could implode in just one aspect could be mentally unacceptable. All too easy for those to attach labels which enable them to dismiss all and any of your thoughts and arguments.
There are many tactics that can be adopted, Fabian, shock, key target, local specific etc. Be prepared to use all and any, specialization is for ants.
Oh, in case I had not mentioned it before, my wife, prior to her tumor playing up, was a missionary nurse for 20 years or so. I have some experience of the missionary field.
 

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I rather enjoyed the original thread. It showed us as the diverse bunch that we are. I'm glad to see that there was no particular cohesiveness, actually. That takes individuality, which is in short supply these days and is a very positive trait.

Your experiment doesn't offend me in the least. I constantly experiment with people. Mostly trying to figure them out, which I haven't yet.

I agree about educating others. Each in their own way. I won't try to proselytize to them ever again, but the ones who come to this forum have taken the first step on their own and that counts for a lot with me. There is a LOT of great information on this site. More than I've ever found in any one place online. Some are called to help here, others are called to go out into the world missionary style. It's all good.

Remember though, with this much diversity, there is going to be just as much diversity in why we do what we do. For example, I commonly point out that there is already a thread on a particular topic. IF that thread is on the first page or two, not buried a zillion pages back. Because if it's that close to the front, it shows me that they didn't even try to look first. Which on any chat forum is just bad form, regardless of the topic.

But more importantly, it's my deliberate attempt to try to break the habit that some folks have of insisting on being spoon fed. Doing things for ourself is an important aspect of the survivalist mentality.

I realize that a lot of times that they did look and simply overlooked the other thread. So I try to do so as politely as someone with no tact or diplomacy can.

I'm sure most of us at one point or another has tried to teach something to someone who insists on being spoon fed. I remember trying to teach people to use IRC back in the old days. A box would pop up saying "type your nickname here". Most people would think up a nickname and off they'd go. The spoon feeders would never make a single move without asking "what do I do now" even if it was blatantly obvious. You absolutely cannot teach someone who wants to be spoon fed.
 

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"Safe and blessed"
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Discussion Starter #12
Good point...

Yes, an individual or small group can make a difference but the extent of this is often limited by circumstance and the political, moral and social climate they are operating in.
Those who use their intelligence rather than vocal volume or denigration stand a much better chance. Showing and teaching by example, being willing to share and also respect the views of others and entering into a debate rather than an argument are simple tactics. The hardest part is getting the initial attention in a goldfish attention span world.
Remember, what is obvious and plain common sense to you can not only be incomprehensible to others but even step over their line of blasphemy To suggest, even for a moment, that, maybe, their comfortable little world could implode in just one aspect could be mentally unacceptable. All too easy for those to attach labels which enable them to dismiss all and any of your thoughts and arguments.
There are many tactics that can be adopted, Fabian, shock, key target, local specific etc. Be prepared to use all and any, specialization is for ants.
Oh, in case I had not mentioned it before, my wife, prior to her tumor playing up, was a missionary nurse for 20 years or so. I have some experience of the missionary field.
Thanks Gav...I need to remember some of what you have pointed out, in particular your reminder in the third paragraph, I admit I am often puzzled by some folk's reactions to "plain common sense"...thank you for reminding me to be understanding...:)
hmm..ok now I'm off on a search lol a couple of those tactics are not familiar...thanks for that too! :thumb:
And yes, you shared some about your wife in my cancer post which is why I mentioned it...I trust both of you are well...:)
 

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˙ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsn
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Haha, I never even read that thread about the walmart and sheeple (i will have to go visit). I only found this by doing a search of my name.:)

I just like to help out, learn and keep it fun.

Example: When SHTF, I will be LOOKING for she-pals.:D:
 

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Veritas Aequitas
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I've experimented with different types of posts also. Generally, I'm looking for number of views, responses and "thanks" given. Typically the "controversial" ones like my "Take another look at the Mini 14" and "Looks like ARs will be cheap soon" get LOTS of attention, very little thanks, and stir up a ton of debate. If you want lots of "thanks", lots of posts, and lots of response simply post pictures of A) food, B) camping, or C) guns. Seriously.

Witness: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=117156

I'll admit it. Basically I was looking to bump up my thanked count. :D:
 

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Super Gassy Moderator
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66,677 Posts
I've experimented with different types of posts also. Generally, I'm looking for number of views, responses and "thanks" given. Typically the "controversial" ones like my "Take another look at the Mini 14" and "Looks like ARs will be cheap soon" get LOTS of attention, very little thanks, and stir up a ton of debate. If you want lots of "thanks", lots of posts, and lots of response simply post pictures of A) food, B) camping, or C) guns. Seriously.

Witness: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=117156

I'll admit it. Basically I was looking to bump up my thanked count. :D:
I figure the thanks end of things is pretty irrelevent. People give or don't give thanks for a bunch of different reasons anyway. I've seen fantastic threads with few thanks handed out, and really crappy threads with thanks falling like rain. Kinda makes no sense anymore.
 
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