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Klaatu Brarada Nikto
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After watching last weeks Top Shot I've been thinking about the 5.7 for several reasons and would like to hear what other are thinking.

With the 5.7 the FPS is high enough to be effective, but the thing that has peaked my interest is that I can shoot the same round from a 5.7 pistol virtually eliminating any chance for ammo confusion when loading mags in the dark.

Is anyone else currently shooting the 5.7s from both rifle and pistol....and what is your advice for those of us considering an addition, and even a switch to the 5.7 from the 5.56.

I currently have 2 ARs well equipped and with plenty of spare mags and parts so I'm not going to race out and buy a 5.7 set up yet, just trying to get some feedback from current users to gauge future plans.

Responders: This is not a ****ing contest, this is an information request, keep it civil.
 

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IMHO I think it's a bad decision. In a handgun with the shorter barrel you are better off performance wise with any of the standard service calibers (9, 40, 45). Out of a pistol performance isn't much better than 22 mag which is probably cheaper.

Out of a rifle I don't think it compares at all with 5.56 or 7.62x39. The original AP ammo designed for it is extremely hard (border line impossible) to find. You can also get ball ammo of either of the others for about the same price. Without the super controllable 800 rnds per minute of the select fire P90 the whole thing just seems kinda silly to me.

On my phone but I'll try and edit later with some links to ballistics etc. I think FN makes top quality products, I just think the caliber is a no go. If you've got cash to burn and want a fun gun to shoot then go for it but I wouldn't abandon your other platforms for serious social purposes.

YMMV

Edit:
A couple of links to check out

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=89538
 

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After watching last weeks Top Shot I've been thinking about the 5.7 for several reasons and would like to hear what other are thinking.

With the 5.7 the FPS is high enough to be effective, but the thing that has peaked my interest is that I can shoot the same round from a 5.7 pistol virtually eliminating any chance for ammo confusion when loading mags in the dark.

Is anyone else currently shooting the 5.7s from both rifle and pistol....and what is your advice for those of us considering an addition, and even a switch to the 5.7 from the 5.56.

I currently have 2 ARs well equipped and with plenty of spare mags and parts so I'm not going to race out and buy a 5.7 set up yet, just trying to get some feedback from current users to gauge future plans.

Responders: This is not a ****ing contest, this is an information request, keep it civil.
Well, first of all, from what I have recently read, the current SS197SR round that is the only one FN imports now is sort of a defeat of the purpose of the 5.7...namely, the armor penetration and the yawing effect even once it's penetrated a barrier, rendering it about the same as a .22 Magnum. Again, this is only what I've read, but put a plain old, ballistic tip .224 bullet in a centerfire cartridge or put it in a rimfire cartridge and there can't be much difference since the aluminum/steel/whatever core is no longer imported in the bullet.

As for the magazines, the 5.7 ARs use the PS90 magazines, and the regular AR magazine is only there as a brass catcher, or no AR mag at all, and it just ejects from the regular AR mag well. No using the pistol mags. However, the PS90 magazines hold 50, and the pistol magazines hold 20. So it's not like you're gonna empty all your mags really quickly.

Roaver
 

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operatorchan.org
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5.56 and 7.62x39: yes. Why? They can be found almost everywhere that sells ammo, there both affordable to reload, both effective in combat and have been proven to be.

5.7x28mm: no. Why? There not as common to find than 5.56 and 7.62x39 (I've never seen it at wallmart), using reloads in an FN FiveSeven or PS90 voids the factory warranty (not sure about the AR57 uppers), has any country actually fielded it in a long term war? (not combat proven as far as I'm concerned). Also only FN makes it. Hornady, Winchester, Federal and Remington make both 5.56 and 7.62x39 (foreign 7.62x39 is cheaper to go with), and those are just the bigger names in ammo manufacturing.

I was once in the "I want a 5.7x28 firearm" crowd, but that was just because of movies, TV shows and video games. Once I was able to purchase firearms the feeling died because I realized how much better the other calibers were. Cost was the #1 factor though. Just keep that in mind.
 

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New and yet, old
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5.7 is not much better than .22mag at any range.

If you insist on having a rifle chambered for the same as your pistol (and the only reason I can think of that's good is for concealment like a Kel tec sub 2000) at least get something with a common caliber. 5/7 is not readily available now and after a crisis probably even less so.

"Top Shot" is not an instructional format that i would rely on.
 

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The 5.7 uppers are MUCH cheaper to put on your AR lower than theP-90's are to buy. Recoil is almost a non event, even out of the handgun. Very accurate and a lot of fun to shoot.

Yes, I do understand that there are a lot of calibers out there that have more power. I also understand there are a lot of people out there (elderly, young, or otherwise physically limited by strength or other reasons) that could use this caliber in both rifles and pistols very well.

Ammo is very light, so large quantities could be easily carried. Mags hold 20rds in the handgun, an 50rds in the rifle. Even untrained shooters will score some hits out of that amount on a threat that is close to them due in part to the low recoil.

May not have the most power, but I'm willing to bet that even a really tough thug will start to think that he has got into a REALLY bad hornet's nest after 10 or 15 hits with the 5.7 , even poorly placed hits.

Is it the "perfect" do all caliber setup for everyone? NO, of course not. Is it a good combo for some people used in the proper conditions, yes, I think I does have it's place just like other special tools do when used properly
 

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sturm maus
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Well, first of all, from what I have recently read, the current SS197SR round that is the only one FN imports now is sort of a defeat of the purpose of the 5.7...namely, the armor penetration and the yawing effect even once it's penetrated a barrier, rendering it about the same as a .22 Magnum. Again, this is only what I've read, but put a plain old, ballistic tip .224 bullet in a centerfire cartridge or put it in a rimfire cartridge and there can't be much difference since the aluminum/steel/whatever core is no longer imported in the bullet.

Roaver
Folks this young man is IMO correct ..young man that was a very well put together ..

hes correct about the .22Mag in PISTOL form..remember "we" cannont buy the ammo intended for this weapon....orginally

FWIW you have the same speak as Rover...maybe he's your Alaskan uncle?
 

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After watching last weeks Top Shot I've been thinking about the 5.7 for several reasons and would like to hear what other are thinking.

With the 5.7 the FPS is high enough to be effective, but the thing that has peaked my interest is that I can shoot the same round from a 5.7 pistol virtually eliminating any chance for ammo confusion when loading mags in the dark.

Is anyone else currently shooting the 5.7s from both rifle and pistol....and what is your advice for those of us considering an addition, and even a switch to the 5.7 from the 5.56.

I currently have 2 ARs well equipped and with plenty of spare mags and parts so I'm not going to race out and buy a 5.7 set up yet, just trying to get some feedback from current users to gauge future plans.

Responders: This is not a ****ing contest, this is an information request, keep it civil.
this might be a stupid question, but how often do mistake one mag for the wrong weapon system?

i think the availablity of the weapon is a legit concern. IMO, the bigger bullet the better, as well....
 

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I have a Five-seveN pistol, have had it since 2005 or 2006.....

Would I carry it on a bug-out? I highly doubt it, but I sure wouldn't leave it behind...

Would I use it defensively? Only if I had to.

---Pros/Cons---
Pros:
It's a damn good little pea-shooter! The round has the speed needed to be lethal. In fact, I made up some homemade "ballistics gel" and shot it with the Five-seveN. What I saw was astonishing! This crap enters with such speed that it causes what I describe as "sonic splits..." Basically, the supersonic speed of the bullet causes it to rip **** up, causing what I saw was a dinner plate-sized split originating about in the middle of the block along the bullet's path... That sort of damage from a single round at about 25yds is DEFINITELY lethal to something say 125lbs and above (deer, cougar, etc).

It holds 20 in the mag, and there is little to no recoil; the only felt recoil I experience is the steel slide causing an imbalance once the mag starts running dry (no counter-weight underneath)...

The only restriction on the speed of effective fire is how fast your trigger finger can move back and forth.

It's probably the easiest pistol to field strip and clean; pull slide back, push take-down button back, pull slide forward, remove barrel from slide. Literally that easy, and putting it back together is just obverse! Put barrel back in slide, put slide on frame, ****, done.

It also has a manual trigger block lever-style safety right above the trigger! GREAT usable safety! SO much better than the hammer-block safeties of most pistols, as the 5-7's safety is worked by your trigger finger and not your thumb. I like this safety the best out of all handgun safeties I've used. It also has a magazine disconnect safety, which means you can charge a round, drop the mag, and then toss it to your assailant who CANNOT use it against you!! (WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT! NEVER rely on a mechanical safety!! Always assure intellectual safety is engaged prior to dealing with firearms)....

Cons:
Ammo is expensive as hell, at about 50 cents per trigger squeeze. A box of ammo is 25 bucks for 50, maybe more atm, haven't bought any in a while. In the pistol, that's 2.5 mags (20-20-10), and in the P90, that's one whole mag (50).

Ammo is also rare. Being a "wild cat" cartridge, don't expect to find it at Wal-Mart.

Firearms themselves (P90/Five-seveN/AR57) are quite expensive. You can get two or three good 9mm's for the price of the Five-seveN, and ammo is MUCH more affordable/available.

It's a pea shooter... Yes, it's definitely a lethal round, but in a defensive situation, One or two 5.7's if not in the heart or head, are probably not gonna stop your attacker... It'll hurt like hell, but they will still be alive for quite some time before finally succumbing to hemorrhage/trauma/shock. This allows them to stab/bite/shoot/set off IED or whatever before they die.

----

For SHTF, I'd suggest a more standard caliber: 9mm is probably the cheapest very effective round, and it comes in a plethora of different weapons! Glock, S&W XD, a few 1911-style weapons, Browning Hi-Power (less-classy sister of the 1911), Beretta M9/92F, PF9, LC9, really there are a stupid amount of 9mm handguns out there.

Me, I wouldn't be caught dead with anything less than my 1911. I've tried on a few handguns, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the full-size 1911 is the handgun for me. It fits my hand the best, it naturally aims the best, and it's got MORE than enough power and size to stop pretty much anything short of a large black bear! Though, I would also have my Kel-Tec PF9 in my back pocket. Here's why...

The PF9 is cheap as hell, effective, and accurate enough to save your life. No, it's not gonna win any contests of accuracy, but it's one of the best pocket 9mm's you could ask for!!! Rugged enough to survive if you do (i.e. nothing that won't kill you will stop this thing), accurate enough to keep you from dying, cheap enough to be a good popper you toss in a survival kit (and small enough to take up very little room). Best of all, you can get a belt clip for it, and wear it IWB without a holster. VERY easily concealable for even the smallest of people (for you small-framed females, this is a GREAT weapon).

I love the PF9, but I wouldn't count on it alone in SHTF. Hence the .45....

As for rifles:

Don't go with 5.7x28mm as a main rifle caliber. That's silly. Yeah, it's probably most similar to a .22mag, but .22mag is FAR cheaper and MUCH more abundant! You'll run into .22mag before you run across any 5.7....

If you got the .223 AR, stick with the .223 AR. That's actually a really good choice; much better than 5.7...

Also, stop watching Top Shot. The show's shooting competitions are just plain ridiculous already.... When's the last time you had to shoot a moving 8" target at 1500m with a 9mm pistol from inside the middle of a shark tank with a tactical buttplug installed!?


- CK
 

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After watching last weeks Top Shot I've been thinking about the 5.7 for several reasons and would like to hear what other are thinking.

With the 5.7 the FPS is high enough to be effective, but the thing that has peaked my interest is that I can shoot the same round from a 5.7 pistol virtually eliminating any chance for ammo confusion when loading mags in the dark.

If you can load a mag in the dark, you can determine if you are putting a 5.7x28 or 5.56x45 round in that mag. Further, if penetration is inadequate, velocity is a moot point. The 5.7 is horrible against barriers (including forearms), etc. This harkens back to the Miami FBI shootout. Good lesson to learn from.

Is anyone else currently shooting the 5.7s from both rifle and pistol....and what is your advice for those of us considering an addition, and even a switch to the 5.7 from the 5.56.

I am not, it would be a fun plinker/toy/varmint gun, though!

I currently have 2 ARs well equipped and with plenty of spare mags and parts so I'm not going to race out and buy a 5.7 set up yet, just trying to get some feedback from current users to gauge future plans.

Responders: This is not a ****ing contest, this is an information request, keep it civil.

The 5.7x28 performs at the muzzle like a similarly constructed round from your AR does at about 350-400 yards. If you think this is solid and dependable performance for self-defense, than I suggest you purchase one for such.
 

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Klaatu Brarada Nikto
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
WOW, Lots of great feedback, thanks to all that took time to comment.

For now I'll stick with my ARs, and keep the 5.7 idea on the back burner for now.
 

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I have a Five-seveN pistol, have had it since 2005 or 2006.....

Would I carry it on a bug-out? I highly doubt it, but I sure wouldn't leave it behind...

Would I use it defensively? Only if I had to.

---Pros/Cons---
Pros:
It's a damn good little pea-shooter! The round has the speed needed to be lethal. In fact, I made up some homemade "ballistics gel" and shot it with the Five-seveN. What I saw was astonishing! This crap enters with such speed that it causes what I describe as "sonic splits..." Basically, the supersonic speed of the bullet causes it to rip **** up, causing what I saw was a dinner plate-sized split originating about in the middle of the block along the bullet's path... That sort of damage from a single round at about 25yds is DEFINITELY lethal to something say 125lbs and above (deer, cougar, etc).

It holds 20 in the mag, and there is little to no recoil; the only felt recoil I experience is the steel slide causing an imbalance once the mag starts running dry (no counter-weight underneath)...

The only restriction on the speed of effective fire is how fast your trigger finger can move back and forth.

It's probably the easiest pistol to field strip and clean; pull slide back, push take-down button back, pull slide forward, remove barrel from slide. Literally that easy, and putting it back together is just obverse! Put barrel back in slide, put slide on frame, ****, done.

It also has a manual trigger block lever-style safety right above the trigger! GREAT usable safety! SO much better than the hammer-block safeties of most pistols, as the 5-7's safety is worked by your trigger finger and not your thumb. I like this safety the best out of all handgun safeties I've used. It also has a magazine disconnect safety, which means you can charge a round, drop the mag, and then toss it to your assailant who CANNOT use it against you!! (WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT! NEVER rely on a mechanical safety!! Always assure intellectual safety is engaged prior to dealing with firearms)....

Cons:
Ammo is expensive as hell, at about 50 cents per trigger squeeze. A box of ammo is 25 bucks for 50, maybe more atm, haven't bought any in a while. In the pistol, that's 2.5 mags (20-20-10), and in the P90, that's one whole mag (50).

Ammo is also rare. Being a "wild cat" cartridge, don't expect to find it at Wal-Mart.

Firearms themselves (P90/Five-seveN/AR57) are quite expensive. You can get two or three good 9mm's for the price of the Five-seveN, and ammo is MUCH more affordable/available.

It's a pea shooter... Yes, it's definitely a lethal round, but in a defensive situation, One or two 5.7's if not in the heart or head, are probably not gonna stop your attacker... It'll hurt like hell, but they will still be alive for quite some time before finally succumbing to hemorrhage/trauma/shock. This allows them to stab/bite/shoot/set off IED or whatever before they die.

----

For SHTF, I'd suggest a more standard caliber: 9mm is probably the cheapest very effective round, and it comes in a plethora of different weapons! Glock, S&W XD, a few 1911-style weapons, Browning Hi-Power (less-classy sister of the 1911), Beretta M9/92F, PF9, LC9, really there are a stupid amount of 9mm handguns out there.

Me, I wouldn't be caught dead with anything less than my 1911. I've tried on a few handguns, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the full-size 1911 is the handgun for me. It fits my hand the best, it naturally aims the best, and it's got MORE than enough power and size to stop pretty much anything short of a large black bear! Though, I would also have my Kel-Tec PF9 in my back pocket. Here's why...

The PF9 is cheap as hell, effective, and accurate enough to save your life. No, it's not gonna win any contests of accuracy, but it's one of the best pocket 9mm's you could ask for!!! Rugged enough to survive if you do (i.e. nothing that won't kill you will stop this thing), accurate enough to keep you from dying, cheap enough to be a good popper you toss in a survival kit (and small enough to take up very little room). Best of all, you can get a belt clip for it, and wear it IWB without a holster. VERY easily concealable for even the smallest of people (for you small-framed females, this is a GREAT weapon).

I love the PF9, but I wouldn't count on it alone in SHTF. Hence the .45....

As for rifles:

Don't go with 5.7x28mm as a main rifle caliber. That's silly. Yeah, it's probably most similar to a .22mag, but .22mag is FAR cheaper and MUCH more abundant! You'll run into .22mag before you run across any 5.7....

If you got the .223 AR, stick with the .223 AR. That's actually a really good choice; much better than 5.7...

Also, stop watching Top Shot. The show's shooting competitions are just plain ridiculous already.... When's the last time you had to shoot a moving 8" target at 1500m with a 9mm pistol from inside the middle of a shark tank with a tactical buttplug installed!?


- CK

For that test, did you use the older SS192 or the newer SS197? If you used the SS197, I really would like to see it in a comparison with .22 Magnum.
 
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