[LAKE]

So I have an Stg-58 with the DSA railed dust cover and standard full length barrel. I would like to put a long range tactical scope on it for overwatch duties.

My question is, which would you guys prefer, a fixed power front focal plane scope on high rise mounts (with a possible cheek riser/cushion for elevated cheek weld) that allow iron sights underneath or a second focal plane variable power scope on low rise mounts?

My current options are a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M3 10x40mm for $1,000 or a Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-10x56mm?

I live in the southeast US so it's usually pretty damned humid and green around here. Lots of tree-covered hills. This gun is my SHTF rig so I need something that can handle long range but also quickly eliminate targets up close if need be. I've been running iron sights alone on it and it's been great so far.

 

[jfirebalrog]

Sounds like you need the 2.5-10, with that rifle I'd sacrifice objective size for getting it as close to the boreline as possible. You've got a lot of room to work with @ $1000, look around you might even find a mk6 1-6x which I think would be even better on a gp rifle.

 

[MonsterMash]

So I have an Stg-58 with the DSA railed dust cover and standard full length barrel. I would like to put a long range tactical scope on it for overwatch duties.

My question is, which would you guys prefer, a fixed power front focal plane scope on high rise mounts (with a possible cheek riser/cushion for elevated cheek weld) that allow iron sights underneath or a second focal plane variable power scope on low rise mounts?

My current options are a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M3 10x40mm for $1,000 or a Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-10x56mm?

I live in the southeast US so it's usually pretty damned humid and green around here. Lots of tree-covered hills. This gun is my SHTF rig so I need something that can handle long range but also quickly eliminate targets up close if need be. I've been running iron sights alone on it and it's been great so far.

The Trijicon will have cleaner glass, but I think the Loopy Tactical is more rugged.

Although, you could do everything you wanted to do for a lot cheaper if you'd run a simple 3x9. It would still get you to 500 yards easily...and lets face it. That DSA ain't a precision weapon. Find something rugged that will allow you to get to "minute of man" at 5-600 yards, and you'll be set.

 

[LAKE]

True, getting it closer to the boreline would simplify things. I'm not sure if I can use a cheek piece since I have a specter 3 point sling but maybe, I don't know. I've never tried before. I hope so simply because I like options, but you never know till you try sometimes.

I hadn't thought of the MK6s but I wanted something that would reach out to at least the 10x in order to go the distance as far as range. I know the Stg-58 isn't a sniper rifle but it can be used well past 600 yards if the shooter does his job.

 

[LAKE]

Thanks, MonsterMash! The rugged aspect DEFINITELY has been a deciding factor at times. It kept me from the Nikon M-308.

 

[LAKE]

Any recommends for a 3x9?

 

[MonsterMash]

Any recommends for a 3x9?

Here is a Trijicon for a little cheaper than the grand you were going to plunk down for the Loopy:

http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3-9x40-Accu-Point-Rifle-Scope-P12873.aspx

The only downside I see with that scope is it doesn't have turret knobs. Or, for a little more.....I think this Leupold would fit the bill:

http://swfa.com/Leupold-25-8x36-Mark-4-MRT-30mm-Riflescope-P5931.aspx

Its a 2.5x8....which is close enough for your purposes. And, the target knobs make it where you can get your zero for every hundred yards from 100 to 500, then tape a dope card to your stock. That way if you had to take a extended shot, a quick look at your dope and a few clicks of elevation, you're dropping rounds on the bad guys head and not guesstimating with Kentucky windage.

I'd personally go with the Loopy.

ETA: The biggest thing I see with people who are newer to the scope world and who want to buy one, is they wind up with some huge lens thinking bigger is better. That isn't the case. Most of them wind up with a miniature Hubble Space telescope on top of a rifle they never shoot past 75 yards...and complain about the rifle/scope being "inaccurate" because they crank the magnification up so high, they can count individual nose hairs and the crosshairs look wobbly and bouncy.

In terms of magnification, in the majority of cases, less is more. Good luck and give us a range report when you make your choice.

 

[Watch Ryder]

If it's a DSA is near as dammit one of the best rugged semi-auto battle-rifle out there. Sniper-rifle is a loose term imho and the StG is queen up in them hills

I've had experience with a x6 Leaper (Chinese Make) scope but that was in a desert state so I think a x2 - 4 scope or even irons is ok for your optics etc.

 

[LAKE]

@MonsterMash: The good thing about the Leupold and the Trijicon was that I was going to trade for them, which didn't involve cash (I have no cash to spare at the moment). I like those options you presented, though, and hadn't thought about a 2.5-8x36. I wish that Accupoint the guy had was a 3-9x40 like the one you linked; you make a very good point about that giant bell lens taking up so much real estate on the top of the gun.

Question: I have a DSA heavy duty rail dust cover on the FAL. Once I mount a scope on that, can I simply remove the dust cover and replace it with the original and then put the railed dust cover with the scope on it BACK ON and expect it to hold zero? (basically like a not-so-quick detach mount)

Watch Ryder: It's an Stg-58 but I was able to get a hold of an Imbel Gear Logo receiver so, in my estimation, it's actually somewhat better than a DSA (though the DSAs are excellent). It's my baby. I named her Mathilda.

You're right about a x2, x4 or x6 doing the job wonderfully. Unfortunately I do not have military quality marksmanship training to fall back on and I wanted a long range tactical scope to employ my Stg as an overwatch rifle, as opposed to a more general purpose battle rifle. I fully realize that it's not a sniper system but I am told by the counter sniper Marines who helped me build mine that these weapons CAN (if the shooter does their job) reach out past 700 yards with ease and accuracy. It'll be a long time before I'm THAT good, but I like to have the equipment capable of such things for when I get there.

 

[KCFirepower]

If it's gonna be a trade, and you wanna do it, I'd say go with the Accupoint...If you were gonna foot the coin for it, MonsterMash is exactly right in his assessment.

 

[0002S]

How long of a range are you talking about. Accurately hitting a man size target, at 600m, in the chest, from a steady rest, can be accomplished with 4x (not hard at all). 1-4x will give you a very nice size vs weight.

 

[MonsterMash]

I'm going to have to refer to others in their experience with the FAL here. I've had no dealings with one beyond molesting one at a gun store once. I couldn't begin to tell you the quirks and kinks with those particular rifles. Sorry.

I'm an M-14 guy myself.

 

[LAKE]

MonsterMash: An M-14 is one of the only guns left that I truly, deeply desire. I know next to nothing about them except they are sexy and I grope one every chance I get. If M-14s and other similar M1A variants were sentient, they'd take out a restraining order against me. Any tips on when I eventually get around to that one?

 

[MonsterMash]

MonsterMash: An M-14 is one of the only guns left that I truly, deeply desire. I know next to nothing about them except they are sexy and I grope one every chance I get. If M-14s and other similar M1A variants were sentient, they'd take out a restraining order against me. Any tips on when I eventually get around to that one?

Yep. You better hope you have a really good job and an understanding wife. Like pringles, you can't stop at one. :thumb:

 

[arleigh]

Certian scopes on my guns are quick mount /dismount simplly because things can go wrong and having 2 sighting systems available keeps one in the game.

Not that I'm careless, but during certian manouvers especially stuff on a sling get knocked around .
How many shot can you take missing, due to this failure, before you are discovered?
If I know that I've bumped my scope ,it comes off ,and the irons are the means of the day.
And that's just hunting .
There is plenty of time after the hunt to reapply the scope and check zero.

 

[LAKE]

How long of a range are you talking about. Accurately hitting a man size target, at 600m, in the chest, from a steady rest, can be accomplished with 4x (not hard at all). 1-4x will give you a very nice size vs weight.

0002S, my objective with an overwatch MBR was to have a scope that could reach out well past 600 yards, conceding that the FAL is not designed as a long range sniper weapon in terms of inherent accuracy AND that I am not that good a shooter yet. But I wanted something with variable power to do the close up work OR a fixed power scope with see through rings to accommodate iron sights. These were the options in my head but I am for sure open to suggestions on alternate options that would allow me to hit targets from afar as well as within 100 yards if need be (where, let's face it, most of the shooting is done).

 

[LAKE]

Certian scopes on my guns are quick mount /dismount simplly because things can go wrong and having 2 sighting systems available keeps one in the game.

Not that I'm careless, but during certian manouvers especially stuff on a sling get knocked around .
How many shot can you take missing, due to this failure, before you are discovered?
If I know that I've bumped my scope ,it comes off ,and the irons are the means of the day.
And that's just hunting .
There is plenty of time after the hunt to reapply the scope and check zero.

Yes, that was my concer too, which kept me from the less durable but exceedingly accurate scopes (such as the Nikon M-308). Any suggestions? Do you have any experience with the FAL as a long range tactical rifle? If I could find a quick detach mount to go on my DSA heavy duty railed dust cover, that would be awesome.

I am woefully uneducated in this arena. Obviously.

 

[Tokarev 40]

I have an StG-58 and an Entreprise Fal. On the StG, I have a a simple Simmons Aetec that I've had on it for many years now. It was inexpensive, but it does all I need it to do. On the Entreprise, I have a Millett 1-4 power DMS scope. It works very well, too. The money I have saved has allowed me to have at least 50 mags per weapon on hand, plus plenty of milsurp ammo. Mostly Radway Green And German DAG. I'll be getting into loading my own for better performance from all my 7.62x51 weapons. I think optics are nice, but knowing all your weapon's capabilities and limitations is better. I'd also invest in spare parts before I blew a lot of cash on optics. You can have a beautiful set up and if you break the firing pin and don't have a spare it's all for nought. Buy plenty of ammo. I'm talking several cases of the good stuff. Then, pick up a reloading setup and dial in your weapon's fodder. I'm currently working on 5K of 5.56 in softpoint for my AR's. I too live in the southeast. Even though I'm backed up to the mountains, I place more of a premium on up close and personal. Long shots are just that. Long shots. They're nice and all, but I practice far more on fast and accurate shots at under 200 yards. I do this at least once a week, even in the rain and wind. I believe that when it all goes south, it may be raining or windy, so I'd be best served if I shoot in all conditions.

 

[0002S]

0002S, my objective with an overwatch MBR was to have a scope that could reach out well past 600 yards, conceding that the FAL is not designed as a long range sniper weapon in terms of inherent accuracy AND that I am not that good a shooter yet. But I wanted something with variable power to do the close up work OR a fixed power scope with see through rings to accommodate iron sights. These were the options in my head but I am for sure open to suggestions on alternate options that would allow me to hit targets from afar as well as within 100 yards if need be (where, let's face it, most of the shooting is done).

I routinely shoot at 565, 600, 800, and 1000 yards with a variety of calibers, rifles, optics and iron sights. Here are some real world things to consider past "what scope".

147 grain M80 gets real squirrelly after 800 yards and is not consistently accurate enough to hit a a 1'x2' square at 1000 yards. It will 'do it', just not consistently enough to warrant giving away your position. M80 is great out to 600 yards.

175 M118 ammo is better suited for 800-1000 yard shooting. The issue with the 7.62x51 is that it will go subsonic at around 900 yards and that will effect accuracy at that distance. Another issue is how will it function in your specific semi auto STG.

Your largest limiting factor in distance shooting (past caliber choice) is knowing the exact distance you're target is at. To be effective you will need to know your ranges, angles as well as the dope for you ammo/rifle choice. Then you will need to know how to get that info quickly translated to your optics adjustments. The best rifle and shooters will miss by large margins if they do not have this data and or know how to use it.

Your rifle/caliber choice is your second largest limiting factor to shooting past 600 yards. Your milspec rigger pull WILL effect your accuracy.

Your third limiting factor is going to be your scope mount itself. If your mount is not sturdy enough for repeatability and or causes a check weld that is not easily repeatable you are going to get frustrated real quick past 600 yards.
Also, unless you have a 20MOA mount you'll have issues getting the scope to zero on the cross hairs at 1000 yards with the 7.62x51 round.

Finally your scope choice "can" be limiting past 600 yards. Cheap glass will not have the definition, clarity and contrast to easily focus the target past 600 yards and will be greatly effected by mirage. The mirage with cheap glass can be so bad at 1000 yards as to make it damn near impossible to focus on the actual target. Not to mention it will give you a headache. Again, it "can" be used. I just would choose cheap glass unless i had too. (assuming you have enough come ups in ypu scope/mount to get zeroed at 1000 yards)

Since the purpose of your post is to suggest a scope choice based on your objectives I would suggest that you get a medium to high quality 1-4x and get real good at 600 - 800 yards which is the real world effective range of your rifle/caliber choice. I would also make sure you get a range finder that is good to 1000 yards on semi reflective surfaces. Then I would practice (a lot) at 600 - 800 yards under a variety of atmospheric conditions and if you can a slow moving targets.

 

[matty86suk]

For your intended use go with a variable for sure, I don't think target turrets are needed but it might be your personal preference. With 762nato with a 250yard zero I'm good out to 500ish just using hold overs on a mildot or duplex reticule. If you want to shoot effectively beyond 600 i say breakout the bolt action.