[badcarma]

I have a house that was built in 1970 and it has a brick fire place with a gas burner mounted inside it. Last winter we had a cold year for Texas and a lot of ice and snow so the power companys began shutting off electricity and they were talking about cutting gas as well but never did. I heat my house with natural gas so it takes both gas and electric to work so i thought i would just heat with the gas fireplace if the electricity went off but found with the vent in the fireplace open it didn't heat very much and with it closed it heated better but is very dangerous and causes black suiet to get everywhere, what can i do this winter in the event it happens again this winter to heat with the fireplace that doesn't cause danger or such a mess in the house ? Remember this is the original brick only fireplace chimney and all. Thanks in advance.

 

[Chops249]

Rip it out & get a wood burner with backboiler!!!
Sorry if this of no use to you, but its what we've done when we had similar problems.
Ok, our house is 220 years old, but a chimney is a chimney, right?

 

[se'kunchance]

I am assuming that you have a "gas burner" that is rated and intended for a "vented" installation.

We have a unit that is rated for "unvented" operation in our fireplace for such emergencies, and have used it continuously for several weeks on a couple of occasions.

Make sure you have a good reliable carbon monoxide alarm (the ones with the digital displays are best) and even with the unvented rating its still a good idea to crack a window slightly to admit a little fresh (albiet cold) air.

 

[VikingBarbarian]

Although ripping it out is an option I would think that a fireplace insert like the following is a more simple solution.

Pulls cool air from the bottom and hot air comes out the top out of the fireplace while a fire burns.

Some even come with electric blowers, not very passive but more effective.

 

[hatguy]

I get the impression that it is a wood fireplace with a gas burner installed. That being the case I don't see why you wouldn't be able to burn wood in it. Of course due to safety issues(I don't really know much about these things) you may have to remove the gas line, to prevent heating and possible ignition to the fuel in the line. Of course you could just burn wood with gas partly open to prevent that too.

 

[Nimmer]

You might want to get your chimney inspected to see what condition it is in!

Sometimes you can line a bad chimney with a metal liner. It is important to determine what condition the existinng chimney is in before you start your decision proccess as bad chimneys can kill.

Many older chimneys were never maintained properly and are not in good enough shape for a wood burning fire.

 

[KCChimneyman]

You can buy vent-free gas logs that do not require the damper to be open, the new ones have an oxygen depletion sensor that will shut off the devices if O2 levels get too low. These units run from $200 and go up from there.
If you are wanting to get the most for your money invest in a wood burning insert for the fireplace but get it done the right way . Have a liner installed that runs from the insert all the way to the top of the chimney. This will increase the efficiency of the insert and it will be safer and easier to clean. I have seen many inserts installed incorrectly and several that had already had started fires from being just stuffed into the firebox.

 

[northernguy]

Ya...a liner is a very good way to go. I had one put in and I sleep better for it!

I had it put in when I installed a wood burning fireplace insert. It's kinda like a little woodstove for the fireplace.

The whole installation was expensive ($5,000) but our average gas bill was reaching $200 a month (we live in "northern" Canada with 9 months of winter and 3 months of crappy snowmobiling. We heat the house exclusivly with the fireplace insert now. Wood is free (well, almost...5 gallons of saw fuel and a gallon or so of oil) thanks to the pinebeetle that has ravaged our forests.

Best money I spent on the place...being from Texas ya might not need somthing so elaborate...but it's efficient!!!:thumb:

 

[Rabble]

Our house has a real brick fire place. It has a vent in the bottom that leads to the crawl space under the house so it doesn't draw it's air from the house. That is a problem with lots of fire places and they actually draw heat OUT of the house.

 

[VikingBarbarian]

The vents are to draw air from the outside for the fire. Fire then heats the air which then goes up the chimney. The vents are a modern invention. They were originally intended for the disposal of the ashes of a fire. With the advent of the environmental movement (think OPEC oil embargo of the 70's) it eventually was moved to preventing interior (already heated) air from being used for combustion and going up the chimney.

All heat provided by a fireplace is radiant heat. There are several fireplace designs that either enhances the combustion of fuel or increases radiant heat. Fireplaces built in 1970 were mainly built as a decorative element, hence, the gas line into the firebox. This lead to the proliferation of cement logs. Purely decorative. Fireplace design has been refined over the years to increase efficiency.

Typically, there is the gas valve located to either side of the firebox which leads to a flexible gas line attached to an iron pipe with holes or the burner. This is where the raised fire grate comes into play. By raising the fire up a few inches it improves the visibility, and improves combustion. The burner stays at the bottom of the fire and is fed from the side.

Now we have a fireplace that looks pretty but needs to be modified to produce additional heat cheaply. The cheapest way is to transport interior air heat it up and send it out into the interior space. The system that I introduced earlier does precisely that by an insert.

 

[KCChimneyman]

Another option for gaining radiant heat is called a Fireback, the were widely used in the 1700's and 1800's they were a heavy cast item that was placed at the back of the firebox to reflect heat forward and they also retained heat that would radiate out as the fire burned down.

 

[rugster]

I had a gas insert (in the house when we purchased it) junked it and got a lopi wood burning stove cut out NG bill from 200. in winter to 40.

 

[badcarma]

Thanks to everyone for the replys. This is the first fireplace i have ever had in a house,when i was a kid we had a wood burning stove for the first winter we lived in our house but changed it out for propane and i don't remember ever having the suete problems but i was about 12 then. This winter i wanted to be prepaired a little better then last.Thanks.

 

[patriot_ny]

I would get a wood burning fireplace insert

We have one for our fireplace, and can heat half of the house with wood, we are in NY so it gets pretty cold up here.

Just make sure you get a stainless steel liner up to the top of the chimney.

As long as you have a good supply of seasoned wood you should be albe to heat at least part of your house year around.

 

[Varmit]

+1 on the wood-burning stove or fireplace insert.

We had the standard-issue mostly-cosmetic fireplace in our house.
It would heat up the living room OK, but the rest of the house would
get cold as it pulled in air to support the combustion. (Yes, the fireplace
had an outside air source, but it still pulled a lot of combusion air from
inside the house.) I have no way to confirm this, but I suspect that
for the entire house, burning wood in the fireplace was a net-losing
proposition. The gas furnace actually seemed to run more when we
were using the fireplace.

A couple of years ago we installed a "hearth-heater". Half wood stove,
half fireplace insert. Sits on the fireplace hearth, and partially inserts
into the existing fireplace box. Has a flat top, so I could heat a fry-pan
or boil water on the top if I had to.

HUGE improvement. :thumb: Just running the wood stove by itself, it will
stay ahead of the gas furnace down to about 30 degrees outside temps.
(More or less -- kind of depends how windy it is also.) Kick on the built-in
electric fan and it will push the heat a little further around the house, and
buy you another 10 degrees or so. And turn the ceiling fan in the living room
on also and we can heat the house down to about 10 degrees outside temps
without the furnace kicking on.

(I'm pretty sure the stove could actually heat the entire space of the house,
but getting the warm air moved to the back bedrooms without the furnace fan
running is challenging. It will overheat you in the living room while still leaving
a bit of a chill in the back rooms. But run the furnace fan on manual in tandem
with the wood stove and it will even things out nicely.)


Kind of pricy. $3600 installed for the stove and the stainless steel liner in
the existing chimney. Federal energy tax credit kicked back $900 or so,
down to $2700. It would be years (if ever) for me to actually make my
money back on the cost savings of the reduced gas heating bills, but now
if there's an extended power outage, heating the house is no longer a
concern. Definitely an excellent "prep" item.

 

[rugster]

I'd look at a free standing wood stove instead of an insert they are inherently more efficient because the unit is in the room not mounted in a fireplace


http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=240

 

[KCChimneyman]

I'd look at a free standing wood stove instead of an insert they are inherently more efficient because the unit is in the room not mounted in a fireplace


http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=240

Actually an insert can be more efficient both devices use radiant heat to warm the home a free standing stove will give off more radiant heat quicker than an insert, but the insert has the advantage of also heating the surrounding stone or brick which will then radiate heat a much longer time requiring less fuel after the initial warm up process.

 

[rugster]

Nope, the most efficient heating wood stoves are free standing ones IF you can put one in your home I wish I could but an insert was more practical for us

In the case of a wood stove fire-heat stove -heat brick/rock and heat room is a greater loss of energy than fire-heat-stove- heat room

In simple terms, while the brick /stone radiate heat the amount of energy needed to heat the brick to generate radiant heat will always be far greater than the output of the heat from the brick resulting in less heat or more energy consumption to heat a room

This is a basic law of thermal dynamics/physics called entropy any change in state of energy is a net loss in energy