"ok bics are good to have as a back up. but, they are not as reliable as a ferro rod."
They ARE a Ferro rod!
They ARE a Ferro rod!
Ferrocerium rods
I believe there is way too much interest in Ferrocerium rods in a "Wilderness Survival Kit". This is equipment that you should have on you (on your person)whenever you are in the "Wilderness". That could save your life if you were separated from your main pack or gear. Honestly, I find them great fun to use. But they realy are little more than a novelty, fad or toy.
I drop Bic lighters in with all my gear. Do you know what Bic lighter is?...
Its a FERROCERIUM ROD! complete with built in idiot proof striker, and its own "tinder" or FUEL in one tiny, self contained unit!
Not to mention, Its WATERPROOF, fast, lights on the first try, requires no techniqe to use. And If I fall in a river and have minutes to get warmed up while Im shivering severly, I dont have time to gather tinder or, scrape and play with "toys".
I do not consider a firesteel to be true Bush craft as, you still need the Firesteel. If you can plan ahead and bring a firesteel, you can bring a lighter instead!
What will you do if you drop it in tall grass or snow and cant find it?
I prefer the bright red lighters, good luck finding that narrow little rod that looks like a twig! this may **** some of you off but, it is reality.
Your first priority is to learn to make fire using a Fire Drill (Hand or Bow). You may not have a rod (or anything) with you when you need a fire. THEN, carry a lighter!
Some will say "A lighter can break" well, this is true. My experience from 15 years of smoking, lighting 20 cigarettes a day is that I only recall 2 lighters ever "failing" me they were both cheap gas station plastic lighters. the only time a Bic didnt light was when it was out of Fuel!
And if you're worried about it falling apart in your hands, buy TWO! I have several 5-packs in my closet with my gear these will light thousands and thousands of fires! they are $4. Fire is too important to not have when you need it! You can still have a rod if you like (I have one on my keychain) but do not rely on it as your only source of fire, you could die.
If you are trying to conserve space, they make a Mini-Bic (This is what I carry in MY belt kit) that takes very little space.
Don't misunderstand me, The most valuble "skill" you can have is being able to make fire with nothing, from sticks. And I advocate this techniqe whenever you light a fire in the wilderness for practice. I just do not want to die in the wilderness because i didnt have a fire when I NEEDED it.
I drop Bic lighters in with all my gear. Do you know what Bic lighter is?...
Its a FERROCERIUM ROD! complete with built in idiot proof striker, and its own "tinder" or FUEL in one tiny, self contained unit!
Not to mention, Its WATERPROOF, fast, lights on the first try, requires no techniqe to use. And If I fall in a river and have minutes to get warmed up while Im shivering severly, I dont have time to gather tinder or, scrape and play with "toys".
I do not consider a firesteel to be true Bush craft as, you still need the Firesteel. If you can plan ahead and bring a firesteel, you can bring a lighter instead!
What will you do if you drop it in tall grass or snow and cant find it?
I prefer the bright red lighters, good luck finding that narrow little rod that looks like a twig! this may **** some of you off but, it is reality.
Your first priority is to learn to make fire using a Fire Drill (Hand or Bow). You may not have a rod (or anything) with you when you need a fire. THEN, carry a lighter!
Some will say "A lighter can break" well, this is true. My experience from 15 years of smoking, lighting 20 cigarettes a day is that I only recall 2 lighters ever "failing" me they were both cheap gas station plastic lighters. the only time a Bic didnt light was when it was out of Fuel!
And if you're worried about it falling apart in your hands, buy TWO! I have several 5-packs in my closet with my gear these will light thousands and thousands of fires! they are $4. Fire is too important to not have when you need it! You can still have a rod if you like (I have one on my keychain) but do not rely on it as your only source of fire, you could die.
If you are trying to conserve space, they make a Mini-Bic (This is what I carry in MY belt kit) that takes very little space.
Don't misunderstand me, The most valuble "skill" you can have is being able to make fire with nothing, from sticks. And I advocate this techniqe whenever you light a fire in the wilderness for practice. I just do not want to die in the wilderness because i didnt have a fire when I NEEDED it.
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You're an idiot if you don't carry a lighter (in your survival pack), and you're an idiot if you think ferro rods are worthless (in a survival situation)!
If that statement offended you, you have some research to do.
Case CLOSED! *gavel slam*
:
If that statement offended you, you have some research to do.
Case CLOSED! *gavel slam*
:
You are correct. When you "flick you Bic" you get a spark. But as I mentioned previously, they do NOT produce a spark of the same intensity as a firesteel. Nor do they last as long. This argument may be semantics, as both sides of the argument are correct."ok bics are good to have as a back up. but, they are not as reliable as a ferro rod."
They ARE a Ferro rod!
I see you live in Michigan, so you probably have plenty of birch varieties. Wet or dry birch bark, when crumpled up, will always light within a few strikes, and I would bet my life on it because I have done it many times. Sometimes people don't strike the rod correctly and do not get as hot of a spark, so that may be why you haven't had success.I pretty much agree with the first post but would suggest having a few lighters and storing them seperate from each other.
The amount of effort required with strikers and magnesium bars is too much, takes up more room and is terribly invconvenient to use. I had better luck with a bow drill. At least with it I got smoke. LOL!
Could be. Where I'm at there's not a lot of birch. Their more up north from here, but ya, birch has many uses.
i have nothing wrong with trying differnet methods for firestarting, but I do feel having several lighters is a much safer bet.
i have nothing wrong with trying differnet methods for firestarting, but I do feel having several lighters is a much safer bet.
i think of a bic as a time saver. i carry both and i know how to make a fire efficiently with either method, but when i don't feel like wastin much time i'll reach for the bic, but my ferro rod is never far in my pack as i have had lighters fail
They are. I carry a lighter, but I haven't used it to start a fire in years. I carry the military issue magnesium firestarter, and if given the choice would take that over a lighter any day. I can start a fire with it quickly, every time, in every condition I have tried. Lighters can get wet, they don't work as well in the cold, ect.Some think they only need a rod. They think they are superior to a lighter and more reliable .
Here is my view on it.I believe there is way too much interest in Ferrocerium rods in a "Wilderness Survival Kit". This is equipment that you should have on you (on your person)whenever you are in the "Wilderness". That could save your life if you were separated from your main pack or gear. Honestly, I find them great fun to use. But they realy are little more than a novelty, fad or toy.....
I just do not want to die in the wilderness because i didnt have a fire when I NEEDED it.
EVERYONE should have MORE THAN ONE way to start a fire PERIOD. And No that does not include 2 ferro rods or two lighters.
jtompkins point about the lighter not working if cold is a good one. I was out the other day with a brand new lighter I tested out before I left. it wouldn't work! I put it in my pocket for a few and it fired up fine after warming up.
I havent read all the replies so forgive me if I step on anyones toes or repeat something thats already been said.
I agree with OP for the most part, Ferro rodes arent bushcrafty, Fire by friction is Bushcrafty.
A lighter is going to be better in a "Survival" situation also imho. Most if not all people who travel into the woods for any sort of bushcraft or wilderness living scenario will carry tinder whether it be petroleum cottonballs, dryer lint, or gathered on the trail, SO you get stuck in a "Survival" scenario whilst your out you want instant flame flick ignite, some smartarse will say you get that with a ferro rod, Ive seen people who use them alot on occassion struggle to get it to catch so no its not 100% guaranteed 100% of the time, a lighter is your better option imho.
Ferro rods are a useful tools and fun to play with but it should in my humble opinion only be a secondry source of ignition in a life or death situation.
I agree with OP for the most part, Ferro rodes arent bushcrafty, Fire by friction is Bushcrafty.
A lighter is going to be better in a "Survival" situation also imho. Most if not all people who travel into the woods for any sort of bushcraft or wilderness living scenario will carry tinder whether it be petroleum cottonballs, dryer lint, or gathered on the trail, SO you get stuck in a "Survival" scenario whilst your out you want instant flame flick ignite, some smartarse will say you get that with a ferro rod, Ive seen people who use them alot on occassion struggle to get it to catch so no its not 100% guaranteed 100% of the time, a lighter is your better option imho.
Ferro rods are a useful tools and fun to play with but it should in my humble opinion only be a secondry source of ignition in a life or death situation.
That is why I would use my magnesium firestarter. I don't have to worry whether it will work or not. I know I can get a fire with it everytime. Maybe my lighter is wet, too cold to work, ect. I know how to get a wet or cold one working, but why do that when I can whip out my knife and mag bar and have one going faster?Ferro rods are a useful tools and fun to play with but it should in my humble opinion only be a secondry source of ignition in a life or death situation.
ferro rods arent' bushcraft? OK i always thought fire with a ferro rod was fire by friction. guess i was wrong.
i always thought fire with a ferro rod was fire by friction. guess i was wrong.
Guess so, its a mix of what 20 different materials?? No more bushcrafty that a zippo tbh after all a zippo uses friction alsoferro rods arent' bushcraft? OK
, just my opinion everyones entitled to one.Hand drill Bow drill and Plough I consider bushcraft firelighting Flint and steel at a stretch.
I have both and use both. When camping I like to practice with my rod and striker just to imporve my skills with it. But the whole "bic is back up" thing seems crazy. Come on, honestly, if you are in a true survival situation and you need a fired are you really going to pass by the bic to grab rod? I don't care how good you are with it. You put the exact same tinder in front of you and I both and give me a bic and I will have mine lit as fast or probably faster every time.
Again I have both and use both. I live in a pretty urban area and I even have one on my key chain so I'm not knocking it. I think when it really counts everybody would grab a lighter first and use the rod as back up.
Again I have both and use both. I live in a pretty urban area and I even have one on my key chain so I'm not knocking it. I think when it really counts everybody would grab a lighter first and use the rod as back up.
A ferro rod will last you for a long, long, time (mabeye a lifetime?). A bic lighter will not. If i went out to survive a few months i would want a ferro rod over having to carry like 20 bics.
By the way, has anyone had issues with crappy firesteels? I had one that worked pretty good, but this new one i have cant lite crap. Its a crappy chinese knock off, so that might be why?
The one I have and the pink one Santa brought my 5yr daughter for Christmas both throw off a pretty good spark. They are not Chinese though....I don't think.
The only problem I have with disposable lighters is that they break pretty easily if they are bent, or stored next to hard items. Since I don't smoke I don't put them in my pockets, although I can't say its a bad idea. The fuel will eventually evaporate as well. This same problem exists with a zippo as well. I store some lighter fuel, a zippo, and extra flints in the car, but I always have a few disposables around. I just make sure I store them in a film case to keep them from getting hosed up and leaking fuel all over.
Few clarification points:
1) If you plan on lighting 1,000's of fires then you have other issues to worry about. Say the rod can light 2,000 fires for sake of argument. That is (1) fire a day for almost 6 years. Why are you lighting a fire everyday? Why aren't you storing the coals? Does anything else you are carrying with the same pack going to last the same time period with the same results (outside of a knife or canteen and such)?
2) The OP was referring to day packs and not long term survival. The kind where you have to choose between (2) toothpicks or (1) q-tip. In this model you can choose to carry a bic or 'something else'. If you had to chose between a mini-bic or 'something else' the bic is going to be your better choice for most people.
3) If you do not check your gear before going out you are planning for issues. I have pulled bic's out of wrecked cars that were obviously old and beat up and they still lit up. If I do not check a brand new .50 bic before heading out then thatis my fault. During the time you are out the bic will not evaporate.
4) If your bic breaks then something terrible has happened. You fell pretty damn hard or very unluckily in order to break one. If they borke easily then the millions of smokers who use them would be using something else. if it did break then you are probably looking at some pretty major issues to overcome.
5) If you have the room/determination and you don't carry everything possible to create fires then you are limiting your chances.
6) The sparker from any lighter will ignite cotton tinder/char cloth/etc. It may not get that shaved wood going but almst anything else (sock lint) will take the spark. The fuel is not the only thing useful in the bic.
7) You can't dominate a tribe of primitives by holding up a ferro rod.
1) If you plan on lighting 1,000's of fires then you have other issues to worry about. Say the rod can light 2,000 fires for sake of argument. That is (1) fire a day for almost 6 years. Why are you lighting a fire everyday? Why aren't you storing the coals? Does anything else you are carrying with the same pack going to last the same time period with the same results (outside of a knife or canteen and such)?
2) The OP was referring to day packs and not long term survival. The kind where you have to choose between (2) toothpicks or (1) q-tip. In this model you can choose to carry a bic or 'something else'. If you had to chose between a mini-bic or 'something else' the bic is going to be your better choice for most people.
3) If you do not check your gear before going out you are planning for issues. I have pulled bic's out of wrecked cars that were obviously old and beat up and they still lit up. If I do not check a brand new .50 bic before heading out then thatis my fault. During the time you are out the bic will not evaporate.
4) If your bic breaks then something terrible has happened. You fell pretty damn hard or very unluckily in order to break one. If they borke easily then the millions of smokers who use them would be using something else. if it did break then you are probably looking at some pretty major issues to overcome.
5) If you have the room/determination and you don't carry everything possible to create fires then you are limiting your chances.
6) The sparker from any lighter will ignite cotton tinder/char cloth/etc. It may not get that shaved wood going but almst anything else (sock lint) will take the spark. The fuel is not the only thing useful in the bic.
7) You can't dominate a tribe of primitives by holding up a ferro rod.
ok then how about a sparklite from bepreparedtosurvive.com. it's pretty similar to the sparky thing on a bic but throws a lot better and hotter sparks. replaceable flint and you can use it one handed.
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