Why would somebody not have a disposable lighter in their pack or pocket? 
Ferrocerium rods
I believe there is way too much interest in Ferrocerium rods in a "Wilderness Survival Kit". This is equipment that you should have on you (on your person)whenever you are in the "Wilderness". That could save your life if you were separated from your main pack or gear. Honestly, I find them great fun to use. But they realy are little more than a novelty, fad or toy.
I drop Bic lighters in with all my gear. Do you know what Bic lighter is?...
Its a FERROCERIUM ROD! complete with built in idiot proof striker, and its own "tinder" or FUEL in one tiny, self contained unit!
Not to mention, Its WATERPROOF, fast, lights on the first try, requires no techniqe to use. And If I fall in a river and have minutes to get warmed up while Im shivering severly, I dont have time to gather tinder or, scrape and play with "toys".
I do not consider a firesteel to be true Bush craft as, you still need the Firesteel. If you can plan ahead and bring a firesteel, you can bring a lighter instead!
What will you do if you drop it in tall grass or snow and cant find it?
I prefer the bright red lighters, good luck finding that narrow little rod that looks like a twig! this may **** some of you off but, it is reality.
Your first priority is to learn to make fire using a Fire Drill (Hand or Bow). You may not have a rod (or anything) with you when you need a fire. THEN, carry a lighter!
Some will say "A lighter can break" well, this is true. My experience from 15 years of smoking, lighting 20 cigarettes a day is that I only recall 2 lighters ever "failing" me they were both cheap gas station plastic lighters. the only time a Bic didnt light was when it was out of Fuel!
And if you're worried about it falling apart in your hands, buy TWO! I have several 5-packs in my closet with my gear these will light thousands and thousands of fires! they are $4. Fire is too important to not have when you need it! You can still have a rod if you like (I have one on my keychain) but do not rely on it as your only source of fire, you could die.
If you are trying to conserve space, they make a Mini-Bic (This is what I carry in MY belt kit) that takes very little space.
Don't misunderstand me, The most valuble "skill" you can have is being able to make fire with nothing, from sticks. And I advocate this techniqe whenever you light a fire in the wilderness for practice. I just do not want to die in the wilderness because i didnt have a fire when I NEEDED it.
I drop Bic lighters in with all my gear. Do you know what Bic lighter is?...
Its a FERROCERIUM ROD! complete with built in idiot proof striker, and its own "tinder" or FUEL in one tiny, self contained unit!
Not to mention, Its WATERPROOF, fast, lights on the first try, requires no techniqe to use. And If I fall in a river and have minutes to get warmed up while Im shivering severly, I dont have time to gather tinder or, scrape and play with "toys".
I do not consider a firesteel to be true Bush craft as, you still need the Firesteel. If you can plan ahead and bring a firesteel, you can bring a lighter instead!
What will you do if you drop it in tall grass or snow and cant find it?
I prefer the bright red lighters, good luck finding that narrow little rod that looks like a twig! this may **** some of you off but, it is reality.
Your first priority is to learn to make fire using a Fire Drill (Hand or Bow). You may not have a rod (or anything) with you when you need a fire. THEN, carry a lighter!
Some will say "A lighter can break" well, this is true. My experience from 15 years of smoking, lighting 20 cigarettes a day is that I only recall 2 lighters ever "failing" me they were both cheap gas station plastic lighters. the only time a Bic didnt light was when it was out of Fuel!
And if you're worried about it falling apart in your hands, buy TWO! I have several 5-packs in my closet with my gear these will light thousands and thousands of fires! they are $4. Fire is too important to not have when you need it! You can still have a rod if you like (I have one on my keychain) but do not rely on it as your only source of fire, you could die.
If you are trying to conserve space, they make a Mini-Bic (This is what I carry in MY belt kit) that takes very little space.
Don't misunderstand me, The most valuble "skill" you can have is being able to make fire with nothing, from sticks. And I advocate this techniqe whenever you light a fire in the wilderness for practice. I just do not want to die in the wilderness because i didnt have a fire when I NEEDED it.
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I am speaking mainly of the small personal kits people carry on them when in the wilderness, Where people are concerned with space, not car camping.Why would somebody not have a disposable lighter in their pack or pocket?
Some think they only need a rod. They think they are superior to a lighter and more reliable . So, they dont need a lighter in their kits
Come to think of it, Im not realy sure why anyone would waste the space on a rod.
Some people like the "old timeyness" of the ferro rods.
Exactly, I think they are great fun to use.(I have a Black Powder Revolver for the same reason but, I wouldn't carry it for self defense) But you should always have a lighter on you. Some people advocate the use of a rod in place of a lighter in a personal kit. And site the reasons I mentioned above(mainly space and reliability).Some people like the "old timeyness" of the ferro rods.
I've got one. I didn't bother even listing it in my BOB in that sticky there. To be honest, I forgot I even put it in.I am speaking mainly of the small personal kits people carry on them when in the wilderness, Where people are concerned with space, not car camping.
Some think they only need a rod. They think they are superior to a lighter and more reliable . So, they dont need a lighter in their kits
I have a Blastmatch, strike anywhere matches, a lighter, and a magnesium fire starter. I like to be covered from multiple angles.
ah... stick a bick in a freezer.. leave it for a few days take it out and try and light it under cold conditions.. it fails.. its failed me with lots of fuel in it.. But I used the rod and a knife to light the bic because the spark wasnt hot enough or something to light the fuel but the rod light it..
Ahh...When in such a cold enviromental conditions. Keep (or put) the lighter in a pocket close to your body before you light it, it wont get that cold.
That bic may be "waterproof" but get it wet and it wont light. A firesteel will strike many hundreds if not thousands of times more than a Bic. Sure a Bic is good to have, but I will bet my life on a firesteel, would you on a Bic? If you crack it and leaks, fuels gone. Then it is virtually useless. Sure you can use the striker on the Bic to try to catch tinder with, but it does not create as hot a spark.
In all honesty the idea that they are not that important, or less useful than Bic is naive. Have you ever spent any real time in the woods, under various adverse conditions? Im not trying to be rude, just curious.
In all honesty the idea that they are not that important, or less useful than Bic is naive. Have you ever spent any real time in the woods, under various adverse conditions? Im not trying to be rude, just curious.
I have droped lighters in water many times, Just place it to your mouth and blow for a few seconds, till the spark wheel dries. It works fine.
I am refering to the small personal kits NOT a bug out bag, main pack, or your SHTF pantry. I guess its too much work for people to read the original post. Or they just dont understand what I'm talking about. There are HUNDREDS of people that come here and to other sites to learn and not all of them. Are as "experienced" as you.
I'm speaking of a situation where your life may depend on your abillity to start a fire quickly, I can dry off a lighter faster than I can gather tinder or get it to take a spark.
Have you ever thrown a lighter on concrete?.. It takes quite a good throw to break one open. Have you ever been so cold that your fingers wouldn't function? It would be hard enough just to flick a lighter, what if yer tinder got wet from falling in a body of water. Not trying to be rude, Just curious.
You are welcome to disagree with me but dont be rude, Im just offering myexperience and an opinion for others to consider.
I am refering to the small personal kits NOT a bug out bag, main pack, or your SHTF pantry. I guess its too much work for people to read the original post. Or they just dont understand what I'm talking about. There are HUNDREDS of people that come here and to other sites to learn and not all of them. Are as "experienced" as you.
I'm speaking of a situation where your life may depend on your abillity to start a fire quickly, I can dry off a lighter faster than I can gather tinder or get it to take a spark.
Have you ever thrown a lighter on concrete?.. It takes quite a good throw to break one open. Have you ever been so cold that your fingers wouldn't function? It would be hard enough just to flick a lighter, what if yer tinder got wet from falling in a body of water. Not trying to be rude, Just curious.
You are welcome to disagree with me but dont be rude, Im just offering myexperience and an opinion for others to consider.
Agree with the OP that a BIC should is superior to a firesteel in many situations, and is much underated. Disagree on the 'firesteel is a toy' comment. It is a good backup that is sturdier and will last much longer than the lighter.
I never said that a lighter is no good. As to your remark about using a lighter to start a fire faster, you still need something to light. You will have to collect something to use. As for my tinder getting wet, I carry multiple types, that will light equally well form a firesteel or a lighter and are waterproof.
And as for your condesending remarks, go **** up a rope. As you stated many people come here looking to learn. There are many ways to do everything. All I was doing was offering a counter view to yours. I guess that isnt what you were looking for. Like I said, I was not trying to be rude, just trying to carry on a converstation. I guess thats too much to ask of "some people".
And as for your condesending remarks, go **** up a rope. As you stated many people come here looking to learn. There are many ways to do everything. All I was doing was offering a counter view to yours. I guess that isnt what you were looking for. Like I said, I was not trying to be rude, just trying to carry on a converstation. I guess thats too much to ask of "some people".
I pretty much agree with the first post but would suggest having a few lighters and storing them seperate from each other.
The amount of effort required with strikers and magnesium bars is too much, takes up more room and is terribly invconvenient to use. I had better luck with a bow drill. At least with it I got smoke. LOL!
The amount of effort required with strikers and magnesium bars is too much, takes up more room and is terribly invconvenient to use. I had better luck with a bow drill. At least with it I got smoke. LOL!
Im with you on multiple ways to start a flame. I carry four! I dont like the the magnesium starters personally. The only way I found to use one reliably is to take a piece of hacksaw blade, about 4" and use as the striker. You can use the saw side to scrape the magnesium, and it works really well. I just think the effort expended toget it is too much for the return.I pretty much agree with the first post but would suggest having a few lighters and storing them seperate from each other.
The amount of effort required with strikers and magnesium bars is too much, takes up more room and is terribly invconvenient to use. I had better luck with a bow drill. At least with it I got smoke. LOL!
However the fire steels work very well when used properly. The trick is to have the proper tinder. I have great results using cattail down, or dryer lint, or the inner fiber of palms. Ceder bark that is roughed up works great too. And of course the mother of all tinders is the cotton and vasaline trick. The beauty of all these is that they catch a flame very quickly and will work with lighters, or firesteels or road flares!
ok bics are good to have as a back up. but, they are not as reliable as a ferro rod. they have been known to leak all the fuel out, not work when it's cold or when they get wet. regardless of whether you're using a ferro rod or a bic you still have to have the things to build a fire such as tinder kindling and bigger fuel to keep the fire going. you should always carry multiple ways to start a sure fire. and i mean several ways that you KNOW for certain that you can get a fire going quickly. everybody has thier own ways that work for them. there's no reason not to carry a ferro rod since they are always going to give you a good hot spark, will work whether it's hot, cold, or wet, last forever, and are not likely to break. if you're worried about not being able to find it when you drop it wrap some good brightly colored tape around the handle. and you should always be carrying some type of tinder that will catch fire easily and help get your fire going quickly. and when it comes down to it i would rather rely on a ferro rod over a bic, but that's just my two cents. nobody should be run down simply because they prefer one over the other.
"All I was doing was offering a counter view to yours"
Who's insinuating I'm "naive", Questioning my "experience" and telling me to go **** up a rope?...That sounds pretty rude to me! :thumb:
Creating an imaginary offense, to behave like a child is not contributing to this thread.
Who's insinuating I'm "naive", Questioning my "experience" and telling me to go **** up a rope?...That sounds pretty rude to me! :thumb:
Creating an imaginary offense, to behave like a child is not contributing to this thread.
The crutial moment in using a Ferro rod is getting the tinder to catch a spark, This is a critical moment. I'm just pointing out that a lighter handles this crutial transition automatically.
Getting a fire going in an "Emergency" is much easier when you skip ahead to the flame stage. In most situations it is much easier and faster to gather kindling for that second stage than trying to find or prepare tinder that will take a spark.
Not everyone will be able to get a fire going in a hurry with a rod, it takes practice, and relies totally upon having or collecting the proper tinder, this can be very difficult especially in a damp enviroment.
I am not questioning your abillity to create such a fire, but everyone is at a different skill level.
I also carry more than 1 way to start fires, I have road flares (for Winter) in my trunk, Lighters and even Ferro rod on my keychain and in my pack. They do have a place. I dont usually carry my pack when walking around camp.
I have even seen some "Survival kits" that contain books of PAPER matches! I also have a problem with sites that suggest people carry condoms in their belt kits and rely upon those to collect and carry water.
Getting a fire going in an "Emergency" is much easier when you skip ahead to the flame stage. In most situations it is much easier and faster to gather kindling for that second stage than trying to find or prepare tinder that will take a spark.
Not everyone will be able to get a fire going in a hurry with a rod, it takes practice, and relies totally upon having or collecting the proper tinder, this can be very difficult especially in a damp enviroment.
I am not questioning your abillity to create such a fire, but everyone is at a different skill level.
I also carry more than 1 way to start fires, I have road flares (for Winter) in my trunk, Lighters and even Ferro rod on my keychain and in my pack. They do have a place. I dont usually carry my pack when walking around camp.
I have even seen some "Survival kits" that contain books of PAPER matches! I also have a problem with sites that suggest people carry condoms in their belt kits and rely upon those to collect and carry water.
I have droped lighters in water many times, Just place it to your mouth and blow for a few seconds, till the spark wheel dries. It works fine.
I am refering to the small personal kits NOT a bug out bag, main pack, or your SHTF pantry. I guess its too much work for people to read the original post. Or they just dont understand what I'm talking about. There are HUNDREDS of people that come here and to other sites to learn and not all of them. Are as "experienced" as you.
I'm speaking of a situation where your life may depend on your abillity to start a fire quickly, I can dry off a lighter faster than I can gather tinder or get it to take a spark.
Have you ever thrown a lighter on concrete?.. It takes quite a good throw to break one open. Have you ever been so cold that your fingers wouldn't function? It would be hard enough just to flick a lighter, what if yer tinder got wet from falling in a body of water. Not trying to be rude, Just curious.
You are welcome to disagree with me but dont be rude, Im just offering myexperience and an opinion for others to consider.
If I may quote;
I guess its too much work for people to read the original post, if you dont think that isnt a snide remark I dont know what is.
Are as "experienced" as you.
Again, snide, snarky insert your choice.
And I am truely not trying to be offensive, maybe I misunderstood what the intent was behind the remarks. I agree 100% with your previous post. I have a real issue with almost every premade kit I have ever looked at. They provide a false sense of security to people that could really make a bad situation a truely horrible one. I keep a Bic in my gear, but I hinestly use my ferro rod for almost every situation. I even use it to light my alcohol stove, or my MSR.
I agree they do take some practice. What seems like second nature to me and others can be a real task for some. I really learned this recently when I began teaching my daughters to do it. They range in age from 5-14. But then I have real trouble with a bow drill. I can do it, but its a chore.
And again, if I misunderstood your intent behind your posts, I apologise. You have some good points, and I agree to a point.
I see some holes in your logic, but that's ok. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion.
Your original post comes off as condescending and aloof. Maybe try toning it down a bit, if you want to better prove your point, would be my gentle suggestion.
To say that a Bic lighter is always superior to a ferro rod is a bit ridiculous. It's true, however, that both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Ferro rods have no moving parts to seize up or break. They never run out of fuel. They work immediately, no matter how long they've been exposed to moisture or submersion. The ferro rod doesn't require the fine motor skills that a Bic would, if you're in the beginning-to-advanced stages of hypothermia...it relies on larger muscle groups/movements which would be easier for a person in a life-or-death, need-a fire-right-now situation.
And most importantly... They teach the critical skill of proper fire preparation and building before ever making the first spark. Skipping the "tinder stage" of proper fire building is dangerous and perhaps foolish. You might get away with it sometimes using a Bic, but sooner or later it'll come back and bite you square in the ass...hopefully not at a bad time.
Before you try to flame me, I want you to realize I'm no rookie. I've been practicing the art of survival/bushcraft for well over 25 years now. My skills are pretty well honed, but I would never say there's no room for improvement...that would be foolish. I have also been a smoker for over 20 years, and carry a Bic AND a ferro rod on my person, daily.
The Bic is back-up only, IMO. I would never count on it as a critical piece of fire starting gear, in a true survival situation.
Your original post comes off as condescending and aloof. Maybe try toning it down a bit, if you want to better prove your point, would be my gentle suggestion.
To say that a Bic lighter is always superior to a ferro rod is a bit ridiculous. It's true, however, that both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Ferro rods have no moving parts to seize up or break. They never run out of fuel. They work immediately, no matter how long they've been exposed to moisture or submersion. The ferro rod doesn't require the fine motor skills that a Bic would, if you're in the beginning-to-advanced stages of hypothermia...it relies on larger muscle groups/movements which would be easier for a person in a life-or-death, need-a fire-right-now situation.
And most importantly... They teach the critical skill of proper fire preparation and building before ever making the first spark. Skipping the "tinder stage" of proper fire building is dangerous and perhaps foolish. You might get away with it sometimes using a Bic, but sooner or later it'll come back and bite you square in the ass...hopefully not at a bad time.
Before you try to flame me, I want you to realize I'm no rookie. I've been practicing the art of survival/bushcraft for well over 25 years now. My skills are pretty well honed, but I would never say there's no room for improvement...that would be foolish. I have also been a smoker for over 20 years, and carry a Bic AND a ferro rod on my person, daily.
The Bic is back-up only, IMO. I would never count on it as a critical piece of fire starting gear, in a true survival situation.
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