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Read this short report. http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
I am doing ballistics research. I have determined that more innocents are injured by stray rounds that have missed the target than by rounds that have over penetrated and exited the bad guy. Statistics suggest that less than two rounds hit the target in a gun fight. Many officers have died from under penetration of a round and it seems more likely that I would be killed by an attacker that my round failed to penetrate deeply enough as seen in the FBI shoot out. I figure that an over penetration will stop an attacker and an under penetration will get me and others killed by failing to stop the bad guy. This holds especially true with the more common active shooter situations. I feel that the my chances and the chances of others surviving are much higher with a round that exits the individual. I also noted that hollow points will fail to expand 70% of the time.

There is no perfect world so you need to choose between over or under penetration and I will go with too much. Head shots and center mass shots are less common than side shots. I want my round to go through bone and keep going.

Stopping power is a myth as the round only hits with as much pressure as the felt recoil. Therefore I will take a round that leave an entrance and exit wound as two holes will bleed better than one.

I want at least 18 inches of penetration.
If 18 inches is archived I want something that expands.
I want something that reliably penetrates barriers.

With this said, what is the common penetration of 10mm against .45 auto? If a .45 penetrates similarly I will go with it as I can control both and feel the larger round will have a higher chance of hitting something important. The FBI report recommends 18 inches for a handgun. I am looking for a hollow point that will penetrate 18-22 inches will a .45 or 10 do this?
 

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Taoist
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Chains keep us together.
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Peter Kasier wrote a book 20 yrs ago addressing your thoughts. called Business Partners ISBN 0-87364-609-6
A hit to the CNS will stop anyone 100% of the time a hit to the CAVEAT will shut them down like a switch. otherwise your relying on the ability to knock out their hydrolic system( ability to pump blood) or the physiological and psychological effects of the wound. everybodys different. I took a 9mm in the leg and didn't know it for 3 hours.
 

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There is a balance between just enough penetration so as to get maximum energy transfer. The ideal would be for the round to stop just under the skin on the other side.

But not all situations are the same. I'd rather drop a little energy and have it all transfer to the target then loose most of it as it passes through.
 

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Rabid Toad Killer
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The only place to reliably stop a target is in the fatal T area (the line across the eyes and from the center of the eyes down to the mouth). Center of mass shots are designed to wound not kill in military terms, because it take three out of action, the one shot and two to care for the wounded.
 

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The only place to reliably stop a target is in the fatal T area (the line across the eyes and from the center of the eyes down to the mouth). Center of mass shots are designed to wound not kill in military terms, because it take three out of action, the one shot and two to care for the wounded.
what he said for a perfect one shot stop ..but you must pratice for hours on end to do that one perfect one second sight picture shot..so you figure about 3500 rds later you can do that shot without thinking about it ..

belive me when i say this one statement ..when it comeing down on top of you and you lineing up the sights for the shot ..you mind and body does some pretty funny thing all at once when taking the shot ..you noticeing the color of the eyes and the hand movements and a million other little details all at once along your own mind is working like it molass in the middle of winter .but everything is happening miliseconds of each other ..

but to your mind and body your stuck in a windowless vacum of the moment ..
 

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you bring a good point there sir .. it really does matter where you aim at not the caliber of the round as the gentlemen is pointing out ..

like he says in the first post it was about how and where the person was shot at the time how well they where surviveing the gunshot wounds..

as he say it shot placment in the body that has the effect of stoping or killing the person in the fight ..
 

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the problem with a lot of those type post you get guys going into the whole caliber war thing about this caliber is better than this caliber or this round is better then this company round ..

really it about beening able to hit the target with the weapon that you chose ..not me or someone else chose for you..

back when in i was in the military the 1911 was the king of handguns in the military along with the spec ops guys you see a browning hipower here or there for carry ..so i was trained on a 1911 platform then over the m9 beretta platfrom then over to the m11 platfrom and then onto the sig 228 platfrom and then over to the glock platfrom at one time in my life ..i never really cared for the glock at all for it was forced down our throats by a over head boss at one point in our line of work ..me if i had a choice would be the beretta 96.or the sig -226 in 40.cal for it was great pistol to work with and had great easly to use the system ..

me personaly i can not stand the glock and it trigger system in standard duty gun mode ..if you where allowed to put into the metal frame set up and work on the trigger like the one person personal handgun that they had done by robar ..i would say the glock is not a bad set up ..but as it stands in the standard frame set up and duty trigger system i would like to use as a boat anchor and leave it at that/
 

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Penetration, bullett dia., vol. are all important but not as important as putting the rnd. where you want it. I went from 357 to 45acp hi-cap around twenty yrs ago but if I knew what and where something bad was going to happen, and I had to be there,and could have nothibg but a handgun I'd have my 41 Rem mag.
 

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back in the 60s and 70s era hollow point ammo was in it begining as it was just becomeing a focus on the american police market at the time frame..so when iam talking about the 45.acp round it was hardball ammo all the way .only in the 90s era did i really learn to trust hollow points in my personal 1911 shtf pistol..now i have a sig -226 model shtf basic handgun for carry around with 21 rds of 9mm cal hollow points for a basic fight stopping system ..

here is some of the pictures of the what i would call basic aiming points on the bodys.
 

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Rabid Toad Killer
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Penetration is good when you can get it. it has been mention the felt recoil is the same impact force that the target gets hit with, while true, this statement doesn't also include the fact that the felt recoil is spread over a much larger area approximately 6 sq inches of surface area of the butt stock against your shoulder vs the surface area of the caliber of the projectile in the case of a 12 ga round that would be .40715 square inches of transfer area that is just for the kinetic energy imparted to the mass of the projectile.

Take the example of the medieval war hammer it was not designed to penetrate the plate armor of the day,but to impart enough kinetic energy through the plate armor into the body to rupture organs. This is the same reason 12 ga slugs will kill even though the target is wearing tactical armor.

Still shot placement is a major part of taking a target down regardless of what you use.
 
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