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outdoorsman
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I want to hear from people who have used both, which one do you prefer. Not looking to make it tacticool so mallninja accessories are not a matter. If I buy a complete ar its going to be an armalite but I have no clue as to what fal I would buy. I found a pretty good priced one by century arms but not much opinion on the brand as I have never messed with them.
 

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In my opinion, the FAL is the more durable of the two. But the AR is the more accurate. FAL mags are cheaper and easier to find also. I refuse to buy a gun if I'll have to spend $500-600 for 20 or so magazines, so that matters to me.

However, Century FALs have been problematic for the last 15 or 20 years. I have a bad one myself, and know many others who got bad ones too. I would absolutely not get the Century. Spend a little more for a DSA and you'll have a real jewel. But it will still not be as accurate as an AR-10.
 

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Have you had the opportunity to handle and better yet, fire both rifles to see which you prefer? I would recommend this route if it is possible for you to do so.

If the purpose of the rifle is to be the primary/go-to/general purpose rifle, reliability should be a very important priority. A body's personal likes, and dislikes when it comes to the ergonomics of a specific rifle is another. ( Manipulation of the rifle, the controls such as the safety, charging handle, magazine release, sights, etc..), which rifle you can shoot better from offhand positions, and your budget. I would recommend the following, and in this order without knowing your budget.

1. M14/M1A. LRB ARMS/Smith Enterprise/7.62mmfirearms/Fulton Armory/Springfield Armory INC.

This one has the most going for it imo. More options when it comes to what type of stock you prefer, spare parts to include magazines can be had, well made iron sights that are adjustable, and repeatable, and very reliable overall.
The better rifle for use with either hand, and can be had/built into a precision rifle, or a rifle better suited for a general purpose role, such as the 16, or 18in types.

A point for consideration when looking at this route is the overall costs involved.

2. FAL. DSA is what I would consider if you prefer this design, and after owning one before. A very close second to the M14/M1A from my experience for a general purpose role. Costs involved should be less than the M14 types, but it lacks in precision in comparison, and the sights although reliable, are crude compared to the M14/M1A. felt front heavy in comparison as well.

Note: Another option is an M1 Garand chambered in 7.62x51mm, if you dont mind, or prefer using enbloc clips instead of magazines in the 20rd capacity.

3. G3. HK91/PTR. Just as reliable as the 2 rifles already mentioned from owning an HK91 in the past. ( Havent messed with a PTR as of yet, but this would be the cheapest route to go, and have a decent rifle in the end). some folks love um, and some not so much. I didnt like the ergonomics/iron sights much, but your milage may vary. Mine had a very "front heavy" balance to it. They have a few presicion minded versions out now, but do not know how well they shoot. A good choice for a general purpose rifle, if you like the ergo,s and balance. High cap mags might be so expensive that the overall costs might exceed a PTR,as G3 mags are very low cost.

4. AR10. Armalite/DPMS. My only hands on with this type of rifle is from a similar platform at work awhile back, but it was all on the range, and not in the Arms room so to speak. Ergonomics are obviously similar to the AR types, only bigger. Iron sights are similar, or can be depending on what you like. A very precise rifle, but ours lacked in overall reliability and durability. A decent choice for a precision build, but I didnt like them for a general purpose rifle because of this, and realize that this is very limited hands on. If you are into other calibers, one could build or buy 308 based complete upper receivers, and have a few different calibers using the same lower receiver. ( I do not see much of an advantage to this in a GPR role, in relation to the costs involved with the build itself, and the $$ involved to stock other types of ammuntion, but just my opinion, and the option is there.)

5. 7.62x51mm Saiga. No hands on with this rifle at all, so it is in 5th place because of this. Most likely the cheapest route to take, and built from the AK design. If the sights are anything like the 7.62x39mm versions, then they are very crude, but reliable. The last rifle I would choose for a precision stick.

6. Keltec RFB. Same as the Saiga, and in 6th place only because I have fired several different bull pups, and didnt care for any of them. Bullpups by design give for a very compact rifle without sacrificing bbl length. I think that they use FAL mags, but havent had one in my hands to confirm this.

Out of the 2 you mentioned specifically, I would go with a DSA Fal for a general purpose rifle, and an Armalite AR10 if your lookin for long range presicion.

11B
 

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المتخلف&
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Good list by fragout.

Mine goes something like this;

1.) PTR91
Relativity inexpensive, accurate, reliable, and accessories are cheap and plentiful. The PTR is moa capable, but 2-3moa is the norm. The trigger is really heavy and has a lot of creep, the HK rollerlocks don't have a bolt hold open, and the standard PTR is front heavy and won't eat tar. The PTR91 G.I. lacks the later two problems, and is the cheapest at $899 new. Factory magazines cost $0.97 cents, and you can get a .22lr or practice bolt to shoot very inexpensively...something fairly unique to this platform. It's not for everyone, but it's undeniably a very good deal right now for the price. It's by far my favorite.

2.) M1A
Accurate, reliable, and an American icon. However, it's one of the more expensive options. Besides being 6 foot long, and 55lbs, it's a great rifle. :D: Nothing much bad to say about it except it's bulk and price tag.

3.) Saiga
It's an AK in .308, and is fairly inexpensive. What's not to like? Except the crappy irons, the price of magazines, and the fact that there's much more tacticool options out there.


4.) FN FAiL
Eh, I hate the FAIL. No real reason, just do. Avoid century, DSA makes good stuff I hear. The FN FAiL and HK G3 are the most popular battle rifles across the world for a reason.

5.) AR10
Same familiar platform that we all know, but shoots .308. I personally wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole, but if you're into the AR platform, why not? Other than price tags, magazines that cost more than mortage payments, and a reputation that is questionable at best, except by AR10 owners of course, it's a fabulous rifle.

I think you'd like the AR10 the most, but the FAL would probably be the better general purpose battle rifle.
 

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In my research I found that the AR platform was more reliable than the FAL and G platforms. I settled on the AR in .243 with a medium quality scope ($750 used if you consider 20 rounds used)and a SASS in .308 ($1050 new). Both use the same mags and picked up another 3 mags for $20 each (new). M14 mags can be modified to work but at $20 each (used) what's the point. Someone makes an AR that takes FAL mags and also other standard mags. The manufacturer escapes me but I think it was in a recent American Rifleman mag.

I'm sure the other rifles work well since they were adopted and used ectensively around the world. G series has problems in cold weather, FALs dirt and sand and everone knows the AR series beat the M14 in head to head matchup back in the early 60s.

The AR series is modular and while the other rifles have been replaced the AR series just keeps getting better with age and at 60 years it's only rival is the AK series. Gas or Di doesn't matter much as Stoner designed the AR initially to be a belt fed lighte machinegun. It's reliability was incredible and could be fired from the hip with nearly no recoil. There's an old film of Stoner doing this exact thing while walking a firing course.

At the same cost or half (M1A) the AR just can't be beat for reliability and accuracy. Throw in it's modular design and multiple calibers think any caliber that uses the .308 case as a parent including .338 Federal, .243, 7mm 08, .308 and several others and you have a multy use rifle.

The only question you should ask yourself is do I like the AR ergonomics and are either of the others better feeling.

The AR has it's drawbacks as well but accuracy and reliability aren't them.
 

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المتخلف&
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I appreciate you opinion, but where are you getting this info;

I'm sure the other rifles work well since they were adopted and used ectensively around the world. G series has problems in cold weather, FALs dirt and sand and everone knows the AR series beat the M14 in head to head matchup back in the early 60s.
Those points fly in the face of reality...

The G3 is used by very tropical and warm countries like Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Sweden, Norway, and that very hot country Iceland...Why? Duh! Because it sucks in cold weather, naturally.

The AR10 won those contests? That explains why noone adopted it...
 

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I didn't say AR 10 but the Ar platform which at that time was the XM15 which became the M16.

Springfield got caught fudging the results because they couldn't beleave the AR platform handed them their asses so easily. It beat them in accuracy and reliability.

I guess that's why so few of those countries use it any more since they found out that the charging handle sometimes sticks in cold weather. Just a slight problem but not so slight if it's when you need it most. It seems that some of the troops get overzelous in charging their weapons and break off the handle.

The Marines had simular problems with their M16s. It seems that they kept bending bbls, hence the M16A1 with a thicker bbl. It seems the Marines had to be told the M16 isn't a crowbar. Go figure. Just a little overzelous that's all.

Believe me I used to love the G series and the FAL when you could buy them in Roses for under $100. Hell I'm half German myself. 1/4 English, dutch, Irish, Welsh etc... Who wouldn't want them. But when settling on one rifle I chose the overall better rifle. The difference may be slight but it's there. Throw in it's modular design and I can change them to anything I want from a shorty room sweeper to a long range sniper rifle.

The 3 other are what they are and to change anything means a total armory overhaul, instead of 2 pins and 30 seconds. But then also all you have is a longer or shorter bbl.

If they are your go to weapons that's fine and they'll serve you well. This I am sure. But for someone looking for their first rifle of this type then the AR is tops in reliability, accuracy and adaptibility.
 

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I was replying to the OP's request of hands on experience. Not conflicting reports during the 1950's and 60's. The T44E4 was chosen in the end, but I believe that any of the others would have run into the same problems, as the design was built to replace everything the military was using at the time. The AR10 would not be my choice to use as a "step" for using to clear a small wall for one thing:)

The more recent SR-25, and M110 SASS is what I am referring to. Both are very accurate rifles, but we learned to keep them in their respective cases as they didn't like sand , and dirt all that much. An M14 or M21 built in the early 60;'s would operate no matter what was thrown at it, and is my current issued rifle as we speak. I have been around the M16/direct impingement rifles most of my adult life in the Infantry, and do not consider them to be as reliable or durable than the others mentioned. The trick to keep them in the fight is PROPER, and FREQUENT maintainance, combined with the right lubes for the right conditions.. If this is adhered to, then they will do just fine, from my experiences with them.
All of them will stick if frozen enough. The biggest culprit is what type of lubricants are being used at the time, and how the rifle is maintained while out in the cold. By design, the charging handles of the M14,Fal, and G3 allow the end user to literally stomp on it to break it free of ice if needed. This will not work as well with an AR10. The open faced design of the M14 is fairly simple to keep crap off of it, as a body can see what is there rather easily, and get it off/out, without disassembly. ( A small thing, but comes in handy if you need a rifle to work, but have no time to stop, take apart, and clear it. ( Use correct lubricants, along with correct maintainance procedures, and limit the possibilities of this happening).
In short, and based on actual experience with all mentioned, the M14,G3, and Fal are more reliable, and durable design, while an AR10 will most likely be more accurate out of the box. Swapping out uppers for an upper in a different caliber sounds great on paper, but not so great in the field if you have to hump the extra uppers for any kind of distance, and in comparison with the same weight in 7.62x51mm ammo that could be taken along instead. IMO, the 308 based calibers do not offer enough over 308 itself to justify the extra weight of a corresponding complete upper, or the weight of that specific 308 based ammunition. ( and this is coming from a huge 7mm-08 fan)
............ But this should only be part of the equation, as the better rifle for an individual will be the one that said individual shoots well with. If maintained properly, any of them will make for a decent rifle.
If Mightyoak, and Heckler&Coke were part of my "clan", I would not be preaching to them to dump their rifles and get an M14/M1A. They both seem to like their choice, and confidence in said choice would far outweigh our ability to swap parts and magazines as a "group".:thumb:

Yes: I am biased towards the M14/M1A, but due to hands on comparisons more than any other one thing. ( Was in a similar situation as the OP is currently, so I can relate)

Different strokes for different folks.

11B
 

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i have owned an FAL and currently i own an armalite AR-10,the FAL's ergonomics sucked for me (LOP) they dont balance well and scope mounting is'nt strai forword ether and they are dust sensitive, still a good weapon though, on the other hand the AR-10 can be purchased with all the modular capability,user freindly features and superior ergonomics of the AR platform but in .308...in fact the british have been phaseing out their FAL L1A1 DMR's in use across the middle east for LMT's ''AR-10'' DGI IN .308 designated L129A1 by the british this ''ar-10'' variant beat out HK's 417 as being more accurate and more reliable under military test conditions....
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGdVy59...mi-auto-7-62mm-nato-tactical-ar-riflecarbine/
and the original unrefined AR-10 spent almost 20 years (60's/70's) in african conflicts were according to most accounts it was considered to be a good rifle to have in a fight.....IMO which ever one fits the best for you :)
 

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I read your post to Hubby and he says:

"I would go with the caliber that is military surplus now and into the foreseeable future. No matter what weapon I bought, I would make sure that it and any others are of a common caliber that eliminates having to scrounge for more than one caliber to feed all your weapons. It doesn't matter that you're not buying a weapon to be tactical; weapons are tools. They are inherently tactical, so it behooves you to think in practical tactical terms."
 

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2.) M1A
Accurate, reliable, and an American icon. However, it's one of the more expensive options. Besides being 6 foot long, and 55lbs, it's a great rifle. :D:
===========================================================================================================================================

Holy cow. that is one heck of a long/heavy M1A:eek: (LOL)

This one is quite a bit less in OAL, and weighs out at around 8 1/2 lbs as pictured......


Notice that there is not mud all over it as well.....( you readin this Hnk? )
(LOL..... Just foolin brother:).)

No bells and whistles to weigh it down.

Synthetic USGI stock and handguard. ( Selector lever hole filled, and camo paint job added)

Well balanced for shooting in offhand positions.

Easy to use from either hand due to location of safety, and op-rod handle...ie charging handle.

18in bbl is a good choice for this type of rifle in the general/ go-to sense IMO.
( The trade off for a std's OAL of 44inches. Approximate 200fps less, and 4 inches less sight radius.) This rifle is actually more accurate off the bench than my 22in std size barrel M14S.

Everything needed to disassemble/ maintain this rifle is located inside the buttstock.

So far, hogs around my AO are not safe at ranges up to 350meters if I have this rifle in hand, and do my part. ( Iron sights, offhand position, and this specific rifle's favorite load = Federal OTM 168gr M852)

HnK...... Do you have a link to this 22lr kit for the PTR? how accurate is yours?

11B
 

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I read your post to Hubby and he says:

"I would go with the caliber that is military surplus now and into the foreseeable future. No matter what weapon I bought, I would make sure that it and any others are of a common caliber that eliminates having to scrounge for more than one caliber to feed all your weapons. It doesn't matter that you're not buying a weapon to be tactical; weapons are tools. They are inherently tactical, so it behooves you to think in practical tactical terms."
7.62x51mm military surplus should qualify then, as it is a common military caliber, and can be found, and I suppose scrounged up to boot.

11B
 

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2.) M1A
Accurate, reliable, and an American icon. However, it's one of the more expensive options. Besides being 6 foot long, and 55lbs, it's a great rifle. :D:
===========================================================================================================================================

Holy cow. that is one heck of a long/heavy M1A:eek: (LOL)

This one is quite a bit less in OAL, and weighs out at around 8 1/2 lbs as pictured......


Notice that there is not mud all over it as well.....( you readin this Hnk? )
(LOL..... Just foolin brother:).)

No bells and whistles to weigh it down.

Synthetic USGI stock and handguard. ( Selector lever hole filled, and camo paint job added)

Well balanced for shooting in offhand positions.

Easy to use from either hand due to location of safety, and op-rod handle...ie charging handle.

18in bbl is a good choice for this type of rifle in the general/ go-to sense IMO.
( The trade off for a std's OAL of 44inches. Approximate 200fps less, and 4 inches less sight radius.) This rifle is actually more accurate off the bench than my 22in std size barrel M14S.

Everything needed to disassemble/ maintain this rifle is located inside the buttstock.

So far, hogs around my AO are not safe at ranges up to 350meters if I have this rifle in hand, and do my part. ( Iron sights, offhand position, and this specific rifle's favorite load = Federal OTM 168gr M852)

HnK...... Do you have a link to this 22lr kit for the PTR? how accurate is yours?

11B
no doubt about it the M1A is a fine rifle and who's daddy (M-14) is currently serving our fine volinteers with distinction on the other side of the world :)
 

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i have owned an FAL and currently i own an armalite AR-10,the FAL's ergonomics sucked for me (LOP) they dont balance well and scope mounting is'nt strai forword ether and they are dust sensitive, still a good weapon though, on the other hand the AR-10 can be purchased with all the modular capability,user freindly features and superior ergonomics of the AR platform but in .308...in fact the british have been phaseing out their FAL L1A1 DMR's in use across the middle east for LMT's ''AR-10'' DGI IN .308 designated L129A1 by the british this ''ar-10'' variant beat out HK's 417 as being more accurate and more reliable under military test conditions....
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGdVy59...mi-auto-7-62mm-nato-tactical-ar-riflecarbine/
and the original unrefined AR-10 spent almost 20 years (60's/70's) in african conflicts were according to most accounts it was considered to be a good rifle to have in a fight.....IMO which ever one fits the best for you :)
The Brits that I have spoken with really like the AR design, and most shoot well with it, from what I have seen in the past.
I would not hesitate if the opportunity to work with them again presented itself in the future. :thumb:

11B
 
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