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off-grid organic farmer
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A pension is not a retirement plan. A man entering the Navy at 18 and retiring at 38 does not deserve an amount to retire on for the rest of his life without some other income.
That is the contract offered to every person who enlists. If you do not like it, then I suggest that you do not serve.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I served just not 20 years. I agree if you do not like the plan don't serve 20 years. As I understand it military service pensions have change some. Or maybe the pension is the same with a retirement 401K option on top of the pension. I have family serving. I do not ask how it works. I just count the years until they are out.
 

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I've been preaching consumption tax since '75. Most proposals would exempt the first X number of dollars. 30 or 50 thousand is mentioned often.

Radio host Neal Bortz co-authored a book about 10+ years ago. Can't think of the name right now. Something about "Fair Tax". Should be copies available on the interwebz. There are a multitude of lame-a$$ excuses lots of politicians argue why it won't work, like "Teenagers babysitting or mowing lawns wouldn't be taxed". That one courtesy of that brilliant magazine publisher Steve Forbes.

However, the main reason pols hate it is that it takes power away from the House and Senate and returns it to the people. Most of them need to be reminded that THEY work for US, and not ever Vice Versa.
 

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Live Secret, Live Happy
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A pension is not a retirement plan. A man entering the Navy at 18 and retiring at 38 does not deserve an amount to retire on for the rest of his life without some other income.
A pension is absolutely a retirement plan, and the current enlisted military pension plan is extremely generous. Better than my CSRS pension plan.

Many people enlist, serve for 20 yrs, then punch out with 50% of their high 3. But those who like the military could serve longer, and the % continue to grow at 2.5% each yr of service.

I worked with dozens of retired military at China Lake. They put 20 yrs in and hired back as a civil servant.
 

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Even the money you're allowed to take home from your earnings is taxed over and over and over, every time you buy something. They say a used vehicle is taxed like a gazillion times throughout its life (good deal for government, not so good for the consumer).

I'm of the belief that income tax should be done away with and tax paid on whatever one purchases, a flat sales tax, ie flat sales tax on vehicles, flat tax on fuel, flat tax on whatever.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
They put 20 yrs in and hired back as a civil servant.
Retired is retired. I do not believe a person should be able to retire from the military (Federal Government Retiree) then take a Federal job.

I do not believe a teacher should be able to retire with 20 years (State Retiree) then go back to work for the state.

Retired is retired. What you do in retirement is your business so long as you are not double dipping on the tax payers.

All government jobs are a burden on taxpayers.

That is what the rules (laws) should be.

I'll use this analogy. I believe the designated hitter rule is an abomination to baseball. Now if I was hired to be an American League manager or coach, I would use a designated hitter.

I may not like a rule or law but if that be the rule or law I owe it to my team or self and family to use the rules and laws to our advantage.
 

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Live Secret, Live Happy
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16,176 Posts
Retired is retired. I do not believe a person should be able to retire from the military (Federal Government Retiree) then take a Federal job.

I do not believe a teacher should be able to retire with 20 years (State Retiree) then go back to work for the state.

Retired is retired. What you do in retirement is your business so long as you are not double dipping on the tax payers.

All government jobs are a burden on taxpayers.

That is what the rules (laws) should be.

I'll use this analogy. I believe the designated hitter rule is an abomination to baseball. Now if I was hired to be an American League manager or coach, I would use a designated hitter.

I may not like a rule or law but if that be the rule or law I owe it to my team or self and family to use the rules and laws to our advantage.
Where do you think aircraft and missile programs get their test pilots?
We dont hand them over to the military test squadron till operational testing.
In fact, almost all the program managers are retired (or reserve) military.
 

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Purposeful Prepper
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Of course what your "fair share" is depends on your point of view.

If this is an issue with you I would remind everyone that tax planning can save a lot of money from the tax man. Just as Beekeeper has stated previously. I have enjoyed his thoughts on the matter. They show good insight.
 

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Purposeful Prepper
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I've been preaching consumption tax since '75.
There might be something to be said for that but the trouble is... and you can see it coming, as soon as you switch to that system people, tax accountants/attorneys, will start finding ways to avoid it. The same is true of any tax system.

This doesn't really answer the question but the best way to deal with it is to elect good conservatives into office. IMO
 

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Storyteller
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Why does this argument seem to come down to
From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs? Should sound familiar, some cat named Karl pushed that a long time ago....1875 to be exact.
 

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No such thing as fair share just like there's no such thing as limited government.... However according to the Bible 10% of all increase, so Who am i to argue with GOD?

10%
I give God 10%. But....

The government isn’t GOD.
The government doesn’t deserve 10%, shouldn’t NEED 10%. and should be required to cut everything to the bone including political salaries and compensation and bennies, and then they should personally account for their excess and pork before they draw another single dollar out of the American people’s pockets.

Whatever the tax generates, the politicians always seem to spend more.
Exactly. Until we rein them in, it will never be enough.

Retired is retired. I do not believe a person should be able to retire from the military (Federal Government Retiree) then take a Federal job.

I do not believe a teacher should be able to retire with 20 years (State Retiree) then go back to work for the state.

Retired is retired. What you do in retirement is your business so long as you are not double dipping on the tax payers.

All government jobs are a burden on taxpayers.

That is what the rules (laws) should be.

I'll use this analogy. I believe the designated hitter rule is an abomination to baseball. Now if I was hired to be an American League manager or coach, I would use a designated hitter.

I may not like a rule or law but if that be the rule or law I owe it to my team or self and family to use the rules and laws to our advantage.
Bull crap.
Which would you rather have...a teacher with 30 years experience (No state I know of lets teachers retire at 20) or one with zero, that may flake out in 3 years? You pay them the same , so to me, it seems obvious, especially when you have no decent candidates in the position. It’s HARD finding math teachers

The retired military that move into jobs they created, running a rec center or a PX? I’m with you. But the fact is, the experience and understanding many of those guys have is FAR too valuable to let it go, in many areas.

All of that said...I do believe there should be an extra layer of eyes....companies promising a job to a decision maker to buy their stuff in return for a job in a few years is criminal, in my book.
 

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Retired is retired. I do not believe a person should be able to retire from the military (Federal Government Retiree) then take a Federal job.

I do not believe a teacher should be able to retire with 20 years (State Retiree) then go back to work for the state.

Retired is retired. What you do in retirement is your business so long as you are not double dipping on the tax payers.

All government jobs are a burden on taxpayers.

That is what the rules (laws) should be.

I'll use this analogy. I believe the designated hitter rule is an abomination to baseball. Now if I was hired to be an American League manager or coach, I would use a designated hitter.

I may not like a rule or law but if that be the rule or law I owe it to my team or self and family to use the rules and laws to our advantage.
Worse than that, though. Lots of people retire from government, get some percent of disability, then go work at some other government entity, and retire again. And continue to get paid for their “disability.”

If I work beyond X dollars, for every two dollars I make, social security takes one dollar. No such penalty for government retirees. “Work as much as you want, even if you’re “disabled.” Retire from another government job, it’s not our money. Hell, retire from two government jobs, and get disability, and social security, too.” They take care of their own. All others, good luck.
 

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Worse than that, though. Lots of people retire from government, get some percent of disability, then go work at some other government entity, and retire again. And continue to get paid for their “disability.”

If I work beyond X dollars, for every two dollars I make, social security takes one dollar. No such penalty for government retirees. “Work as much as you want, even if you’re “disabled.” Retire from another government job, it’s not our money. Hell, retire from two government jobs, and get disability, and social security, too.” They take care of their own. All others, good luck.
I know several leeches that do just this and it's pathetic and sad. Soooooo many ex-military leeches scamming the taxpayer, my brother is unfortunately included in this group and it makes me sick to see. It's one thing to be actually disabled an unable to work, it's another thing to have a minor injury (or no injury at all which is very common) and to scam the taxpayer.
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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Keep in mind that military 'retirees' are still US servicemembers.

The paycheck we have been calling 'retirement' is in fact a retainer. Should Congress ever 'declare war' all military retirees are subject to recall back into uniform again to continue serving.

I am still subject to the UCMJ, as are all US servicemembers.
 

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Keep in mind that military 'retirees' are still US servicemembers.

The paycheck we have been calling 'retirement' is in fact a retainer. Should Congress ever 'declare war' all military retirees are subject to recall back into uniform again to continue serving.

I am still subject to the UCMJ, as are all US servicemembers.
I have no problem at all with guys retiring from the military. Every male in my family, ever since the big boat from Ireland tied up, has been in the military. Some retired, some didn’t. Some fought and suffered in really krappy places (some in more than one really krappy place), some didn’t.

But some never went anywhere more dangerous than Orlando Florida, and still retired with a disability. I know a guy who retired from the Air Force, a pencil pusher, had a bad dental experience in Kuwait, during Desert Storm, 20% disabled! Never did anything more risky than drive to work. Now he’s on the federal payroll, on the exact same base where he retired from the military. Still getting his disability, his retirement, and a federal paycheck. Few more years, he’ll get social security, too, I guess.

Not just the military, by any means. It sure rubs me wrong, when I spent my life working 80 or 100 or 200 feet in the air, doing work every bit as important as some bureaucrat paper shuffler, and I get penalized if I work part-time. Seems like a pretty good scam sometimes, especially from the outside looking in.
 

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I'm in the same boat with ForestBeeKeeper. I'm retired military. Now disabled. I have taxes taken out. They send it back when I file each year. As a person who worked my whole life, It amazes me when that refund comes in. Don't know all the answers. I did pay my fair share. I never collected unemployment or welfare. Probably can't even say that word anymore.
 

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Keep in mind that military 'retirees' are still US servicemembers.

The paycheck we have been calling 'retirement' is in fact a retainer. Should Congress ever 'declare war' all military retirees are subject to recall back into uniform again to continue serving.

I am still subject to the UCMJ, as are all US servicemembers.
When we signed up it really never expires.
 
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