[Mama Bear]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26747166/

Thought ya'll might find this interesting

 

[spenceNC]

Careful god does not want you to get to much knowledge, you might find out he is not real.

 

[Straight Razor]

The Catholic church have never had any major problem with evolution. It is recent conservative protestants who do. They pretend to speak for all Christians on the matter or evolution.

 

[offroadgreg]

they also think aliens are out there.. no big deal I guess.. the bible even speaks about unidentified objects in the sky at the end times..

im not going to get involved in yet another religious thread but in my personal opinion the vatican has become more of a mafia lately then a religion.. seems they are willing to change what they believe in to get a broader range of "believers"

too much worshipping aliens and mold.. not enough worshipping Jesus

 

[temu]

more of a mafia "lately"?

the vatican has become more of a mafia lately then a religion.. seems they are willing to change what they believe in to get a broader range of "believers".

The whore of babylon is never a surprise to me...she will say anything she wants to get more "believers". She is apostate, always has been apostate, and is the very (nest) seat of antichrist. If people cannot see that, there is some sort of marvelous blindness upon those who study prophecy with any sincerity.

 

[offroadgreg]

The whore of babylon is never a surprise to me...she will say anything she wants to get more "believers". She is apostate, always has been apostate, and is the very (nest) seat of antichrist. If people cannot see that, there is some sort of marvelous blindness upon those who study prophecy with any sincerity.

thanks, thats basically what I meant I guess just didnt want to offend anyone as its not the people I disagree with its the whole setup.. there are many great people within the church who have been misled to worship the church and not God but then again there are many within the church who have a very good idea what is going on and dont let it change their views or their God.

Church shouldnt be a word to describe a building as I see it.. it was originally created as a place of fellowship and of course fellowship for christians/catholics means that we are all going to worship the same God in the same place of our fellowship... dont know if that makes sense or is even on topic..

 

[temu]

You are right...

thanks, thats basically what I meant I guess just didnt want to offend anyone as its not the people I disagree with its the whole setup.. there are many great people within the church who have been misled to worship the church and not God but then again there are many within the church who have a very good idea what is going on and dont let it change their views or their God.

I am not speaking against the folks in the whore's system, many just don't know any better...I'm sure Yahshua will judge us by what we do know and are accountable for. But speaking prophetically, it is important that we call "a spade a spade"...no harm describing what Yahshua Himself refers to the system as. He invented the terms, we should apply them.

The pope thinks he is "another god on earth". Blasphemy. Makes me sick.

 

[nebguy]

The whore of babylon is never a surprise to me...she will say anything she wants to get more "believers". She is apostate, always has been apostate, and is the very (nest) seat of antichrist. If people cannot see that, there is some sort of marvelous blindness upon those who study prophecy with any sincerity.

to study prophecy with sincerity is your basic oxymoron.

Soon as you can tell me how effect can come before cause then I will believe that someone could do prophecy.

 

[temu]

Oxymoron to some...

to study prophecy with sincerity is your basic oxymoron.

Soon as you can tell me how effect can come before cause then I will believe that someone could do prophecy.

but a cornerstone of echatology and understanding to others. Yahweh makes bold challenges in this very arena...He doesn't want any confusion about Who is Real and who is counterfeit.

Is. 41:

21Produce your cause, saith Yahweh; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.

22Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

23Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

A huge part of Scripture is just that...future written in advance. A stubling block to some, as you point out, but striking clarity to those who are sincere in their thirst for truth. Actually, this apostate system in topic is one of the clearest, most detailed portraits painted in Scripture, all done "in advance". Effect can be shown before cause...but ONLY if you are the One in charge!

Amos 3:7
Surely Yahweh will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

 

[nebguy]

If one assumes the existence of god then of course it makes sense that he could mess with time, cause and effect any way he wanted to. Time as we experience it might be quite different from what time is to a being that say, operates in ten dimensions.

I suppose I was referring primarily to them earthlings who think they are psychics / fortune tellers etc and who, if there is a god, are risking their (actual) future with their lies and tricks.


There are people like edgar casey and nostradamus who wrote a lot of prophesy. Some people think they actually did predict things.

my impression of that kind of prophecy, and that in the bible for that matter, is that it is written in so general and vague a way that one can find fulfillment more or less as they please.

We are reminded of the prophecy given to Xerxes who was told by an oracle that if he attacks Greece a great army will be destroyed.

Now, if there is something specific in the bible in the way of prophecy that has come true, then i will be impressed. I think..welcome to corrrect me.. that those things that are supposed to have happened are of the vague and questionable sort. Or the Xerxes sort where the vital info about just whose army was gonna get destroyed got left out.

 

[temu]

The Scriptures are full of fulfilled prophecy...

Now, if there is something specific in the bible in the way of prophecy that has come true, then i will be impressed.

but to stay on topic, please look at this link and give it it's "day in court" if you will. I could have found a better link, or better yet, discuss it further, but I'm squeezed for time right now. Hopefully this will help you get a flavor for what I am talking about.

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/sevenhills.asp

Have a great day!

 

[nebguy]

but to stay on topic, please look at this link and give it it's "day in court" if you will. I could have found a better link, or better yet, discuss it further, but I'm squeezed for time right now. Hopefully this will help you get a flavor for what I am talking about.

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/sevenhills.asp

Have a great day!

Well if anti catholic is what you are talking about that went well beyond just the flavor of it.

I read about half of it. I didnt see anything that showed a prophecy being fulfilled. If there is maybe you can highlight it. Or come up with a different one.

 

[offroadgreg]

If one assumes the existence of god then of course it makes sense that he could mess with time, cause and effect any way he wanted to. Time as we experience it might be quite different from what time is to a being that say, operates in ten dimensions.

I suppose I was referring primarily to them earthlings who think they are psychics / fortune tellers etc and who, if there is a god, are risking their (actual) future with their lies and tricks.


There are people like edgar casey and nostradamus who wrote a lot of prophesy. Some people think they actually did predict things.

my impression of that kind of prophecy, and that in the bible for that matter, is that it is written in so general and vague a way that one can find fulfillment more or less as they please.

We are reminded of the prophecy given to Xerxes who was told by an oracle that if he attacks Greece a great army will be destroyed.

Now, if there is something specific in the bible in the way of prophecy that has come true, then i will be impressed. I think..welcome to corrrect me.. that those things that are supposed to have happened are of the vague and questionable sort. Or the Xerxes sort where the vital info about just whose army was gonna get destroyed got left out.

I completely agree that not everyone claiming to be a prophet is a prophet. for this reason I dont put my money on anything outside what I know personally is true, that is the bible.

the biggest most important prophecy fulfilled so far I'd say would have to be Jesus's coming. 700 something years before hand they had prophecised his birthplace, where he would live.. who he would be born to.. the fact that he would descend on both sides from David and how he would die on a tree.. Im sure theres more to it then that but hey Im not perfect nor am I a scholar..

thats just the one that I KNOW there is proof of outside the bible.. there is no denying that Jesus walked the earth.. other then that there a numerous other prophecies in the bible, like plagues, droughts and deaths.. theres one Im thinking about which was (I think) Jacob? who was in charge of storing grains in egypt before a drought which in the end made it impossible for anyone to farm or harvest anything for seven years.. luckily he did his job and had just enough food stored for all the people.. not sure if that one is so easy to prove outside the bible

 

[nebguy]

I would have to see the complete text in the bible where it predicts the arrival of jesus and those other details you mentioned.

Also, of course, that was a jewish prophecy and they didnt think it had been fulfilled. I dont have a pro or anti jewish feeling here im as neutral on it as i am about the outcome of a soccer game in brazil. But they were the ones involved and the whole thing evidently didnt impress them all that much.

There evidently was a man, jesus, but who he was seems less clear. is it not true that none of his saying were written down until many years after he died?

So unless there was supernatural intervention there must be a lot of sutff that was forgotten or remembered wrong.


it is kind of weird that if there was gonna be supernatural intervention that
so much of what he must have said is now unrecoverable. Just the sort of things that make me wonder.


anyhow: the quotes that accurately predict this stuff please.

ps the storing up grain stuff (also weird how everything is in 7s) a lot of people on this forum are doing that now, too. If someone did it then, well, it wouldnt take a prophet to see that it was a good diea.

 

[offroadgreg]

I would have to see the complete text in the bible where it predicts the arrival of jesus and those other details you mentioned.

Also, of course, that was a jewish prophecy and they didnt think it had been fulfilled. I dont have a pro or anti jewish feeling here im as neutral on it as i am about the outcome of a soccer game in brazil. But they were the ones involved and the whole thing evidently didnt impress them all that much.

There evidently was a man, jesus, but who he was seems less clear. is it not true that none of his saying were written down until many years after he died?

So unless there was supernatural intervention there must be a lot of sutff that was forgotten or remembered wrong.


it is kind of weird that if there was gonna be supernatural intervention that
so much of what he must have said is now unrecoverable. Just the sort of things that make me wonder.


anyhow: the quotes that accurately predict this stuff please.

ps the storing up grain stuff (also weird how everything is in 7s) a lot of people on this forum are doing that now, too. If someone did it then, well, it wouldnt take a prophet to see that it was a good diea.

aha.. I see where you're coming from and its a good question to be honest. there may very well have been supernatural intervention.. all I know is that the gospels, which are the books of matthew mark luke and john all have the same story.. they weren't found together as Im sure you know.. the bible wasn't one book until they placed the books all next to each other and bound them together.

while im looking for the exact verses in the bible can I ask you what it is that you find "less clear" about who he was?

yes it is very wierd how God uses numbers in his book.. just another thing that links the books together I guess and makes me feel much better about my relationship with God as a result of reading his books. numbers have much more significance in the hebrew language also, then they do in english.. not sure if that has anything to do with the use of numbers in the bible but thought id throw it out there for fun..

your point on storing grains and foodstuffs is a very good one. the only thing that I find makes their situation different then ours is that they weren't preparing for war or nuclear attacks.. it was a drought thing and the fact that they were doing so well made it very hard for them to do any preperation without being ridiculed.. I know it sounds like a very similar situation still.. but WE have NO clue what is coming.. years of depression? recession? maybe we'll all just go broke for a couple of days and it'll be real bad but then someone will completely take over the situation and bring a new world order.. it could all bounce back couldnt it? the thing is that back then noone had a clue what was going to happen and even the people involved weren't sure about it until God revealed himself through dreams or prophets.. 7 years is a big thing to prepare an entire nation for.. why wasn't it only 6 years? heck if it lasted 7 years why didnt it last 8 or 9?

 

[nebguy]

aha.. I see where you're coming from and its a good question to be honest. there may very well have been supernatural intervention.. all I know is that the gospels, which are the books of matthew mark luke and john all have the same story.. they weren't found together as Im sure you know.. the bible wasn't one book until they placed the books all next to each other and bound them together.

while im looking for the exact verses in the bible can I ask you what it is that you find "less clear" about who he was?

yes it is very wierd how God uses numbers in his book.. just another thing that links the books together I guess and makes me feel much better about my relationship with God as a result of reading his books. numbers have much more significance in the hebrew language also, then they do in english.. not sure if that has anything to do with the use of numbers in the bible but thought id throw it out there for fun..

your point on storing grains and foodstuffs is a very good one. the only thing that I find makes their situation different then ours is that they weren't preparing for war or nuclear attacks.. it was a drought thing and the fact that they were doing so well made it very hard for them to do any preperation without being ridiculed.. I know it sounds like a very similar situation still.. but WE have NO clue what is coming.. years of depression? recession? maybe we'll all just go broke for a couple of days and it'll be real bad but then someone will completely take over the situation and bring a new world order.. it could all bounce back couldnt it? the thing is that back then noone had a clue what was going to happen and even the people involved weren't sure about it until God revealed himself through dreams or prophets.. 7 years is a big thing to prepare an entire nation for.. why wasn't it only 6 years? heck if it lasted 7 years why didnt it last 8 or 9?

As far as i know the gospels are similar but not identical.
Differing accounts.

If a person takes every last word in the bible as being literally true then I dont see much to discuss with them because of the obvious absurdity of it.
I mean, hills dont sing..? Poetry, metaphor there. Dunno if you are in the everything literally true school of thought.

People didnt always kill the enemy in even multiples of a thousand the way the bible seems to say they did.

So, i think if you want a story about a wise leader..who may have said god sent him a dream, as a way to help motivate the people...and they stored up a lot of grain, well that is a good story with a lesson for us all. As to whether they and an actual 7 year drought, well oral traditions arent that reliable. Who knows. What does it matter. #

IF the bible says that a 7 year drought was predicted and then says it happened well sorry that is a bit too much like circular reasoning to say that proves the bible correctly predicts things. it isnt evidence of prophesy unless there is some completely independent way to confirm it.

anyhow.. will await the verses you were looking for.


* the economics of saving that much out of a subsistence operation such as farming was then ,would be interesting to work out. It would take years to save up that much, and in the meantime no income from the farm.

 

[offroadgreg]

As far as i know the gospels are similar but not identical.
Differing accounts.

If a person takes every last word in the bible as being literally true then I dont see much to discuss with them because of the obvious absurdity of it.
I mean, hills dont sing..? Poetry, metaphor there. Dunno if you are in the everything literally true school of thought.

People didnt always kill the enemy in even multiples of a thousand the way the bible seems to say they did.

So, i think if you want a story about a wise leader..who may have said god sent him a dream, as a way to help motivate the people...and they stored up a lot of grain, well that is a good story with a lesson for us all. As to whether they and an actual 7 year drought, well oral traditions arent that reliable. Who knows. What does it matter. #

IF the bible says that a 7 year drought was predicted and then says it happened well sorry that is a bit too much like circular reasoning to say that proves the bible correctly predicts things. it isnt evidence of prophesy unless there is some completely independent way to confirm it.

anyhow.. will await the verses you were looking for.


* the economics of saving that much out of a subsistence operation such as farming was then ,would be interesting to work out. It would take years to save up that much, and in the meantime no income from the farm.

"as far as you know" I thank you for leaving an opening for me there..
the family trees of Jesus differ between the gospels I agree completely. without further research it could be passed off as incorrect and thats that.. But.. and I dont know much on this.. they DO line up perfectly when you take certain things into account. like marriage rights and name changing as a result.. if requested I can find the info out for you.

maybe you missed it.. but I said in another post that I DONT take everything litterally.. I dont take it out of context tho.

let me clear some things up about the whole food/drought thing.. it was one person not a nation who saved up grains.. he was appointed by the king to store up as much as he was told he would need. and yes, it did take years to save up that much.. a whole lot better then going hungry for years tho.

to start with, I wonder if you could open a bible and start reading Isaiah.. if you dont have one try biblegateway.com or something similar...

in there Isaiah talks about the messiah's coming, the worldwide dispursion of the jews.. which certainly can be proven.. the worldwide prosecution of the jews, the recent migration of the jews back to israel that has been happening over the past century and the recent reestablishment of israel as a nation. you shouldnt have a problem with confirming any of these as fact...

Isaiah lived in jerusalem about 2700 years ago, which.. being as it has been 2008 years since the birth of Jesus.. makes him about 700 years older then Jesus.

these claims aren't at all that difficult to make.. Hitler claimed he would take over the world and a special people group would dominate. how wrong was he ehh..

 

[offroadgreg]

Isaiah 7:14

Isaiah 9:6-7

Isaiah 35:4-6

Isaiah 49:6

Isaiah 49:13-17

Isaiah 50:6

Isaiah 53:9

Isaiah 53:12

 

[offroadgreg]

Jacob is another prophet who was given a vision by God that proved to be accurate.. that the jews would establish their own nation, that they would be scattered across the ends of the earth and that they would one day return to their homeland.

 

[offroadgreg]

Jeremiah prophecied these things and also that God would protect the jews from total desturction. he also claimed the second israel would be greater then the first.. 19 centuries later this has all come true and not a bit out of place

Jeremiah 23:5
The Messiah would be a descendant of King David