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· Registered
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Had a discussion with a preparedness curious liberal yesterday. I wrote this for him and thought I'd share it.

When the SHTF, society’s laws and social constraints break down as ordinarily law abiding and non-violent people succumb to their baser instincts of fear, survival and self-centered motivation. This may involve forcibly taking your supplies and/or shelter, vehicle or even your life and the lives of those you need to protect. This has occurred through time immemorial and more recently was demonstrated during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. I know because I was there as a reserve deputy. It wasn’t pretty.

Defending yourself and others against violent attack is not only easily rationalized as an unavoidable and necessary course of action but it is absolutely a duty as well. I have heard all the fatuously pacifistic arguments; “turn the other cheek and trust in the Lord to protect us, material things are not worth injuring and especially taking a life about, protecting my well-being or life is not worth taking the life of another”, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. If that is your basic philosophy then you are a well-intentioned and self-actualized person worthy of canonization. You are also doomed as are those in your care.

Something as seemingly insignificant as a single tarp, hammer or case of tuna fish may mean the difference between survival and death. If you have the capability, it is your duty to preserve such items for your own needs and the needs of your loved ones. If you lack the ability to defend what is yours then you need to acquire that capability through weapons training in self-defense, both armed and unarmed.

You don’t need to be a Rambo or a Bruce Lee. In fact it has been my experience in law enforcement and as a martial arts instructor, that awareness and attitude weighted at least 80% in a successful outcome for the defender. The awareness of an impending hostile event followed quickly by a plan of action put in motion as the dynamics of the situation warranted tended to carry the day. Especially when the defender was willing to use any and all force necessary to overcome their attackers.

The willingness to use up to deadly force without hesitation when warranted is not a normal instinct for the average Joe Schmoe. Those that would deprive you of your possessions and even lives will not be so encumbered by the basic social tenets of decency, non-violence and fair play. Frightened people often revert to the mentality of repeat, violent, strong arm robbers. They will strike suddenly and without warning. They will use any and all force to take what you have. In normal times there are rules of engagement in matters of self-defense with levels of force with which a defender may respond in like kind to, but not exceed. In a SHTF scenario one may and should use somewhat greater force than confronted with because you cannot afford to be seriously injured when medical services may be impossible to find. Defend yourself vigorously as is necessary to end the threat. Sometimes merely the presentation of a determined attitude to engage in combat combined with pre-planned tactics will be sufficient to dissuade your would be attackers. They may decide to find easier more sheep-like prey. And if not, they will suffer the consequences of attacking a determined, prepared defender. Have a plan. Have at least some capability. Be willing to use up to deadly force. You owe it to yourself and your loved ones who need you. Trust in God to judge you later. When the SHTF, you can still be a decent human being. But when threatened, do what you have to do. Be willing to use even deadly force. Be determined to prevail. Then act decisively. It is your right and your duty.
 

· Watchin tha world go by
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S.S.S.

and add their stuff ta yer cache
 
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· Combat Veteran
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You can be aware of your surroundings 100% of the time but if you are not equipped with basic skill, knowledge, and tools you are nothing more than a sheep. I agree you don't need to be Bruce Lee or Rambo but being like Bruce Willis definitely helps your cause.
 

· Registered
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I don't know how long anyones ethical values will hold up.

Lopk at it this way, In a situation where lawlessness has taken over and the people that are armed are about the only thing standing between the issues of legality NOW.... and what was a legality THEN (pre SHTF).

A lot of things are going to be wieghted in split second decisions. Most of us here are of the mind set that we will fight, and the way many of us were raised we are going to be compasisonate towards the criminal element. It is what we have been taught. We have been taught that we ought to give them a second chance, or that they are misguided. It is not our fault per say that we think that way. It is because of our lifestyles and the society that wel ive in.
For example...a person in the ghettos of NYC is going to think a lot differently than a person living in rural america. Also, people that are conservative (some liberals) in nature and have a stronger stand on how to deal with the element. There are going to be a huge amount of varaibles that contribute to the decision of whether to line a gang up and hang or shoot them down or disarm them and run em off.

Look around and ack a person that has been in jail or even read stories on line about the mentality of the criminal. They know for the most part that they are going to get a candy walk in a short term prison. They have no fear of legal ramifications at all. The days of the liberal huggy kissy thing will or rather need to come to an end.
It will literally become a law of survival. Do they survive and spread or do the good people that want to survive and rebuild fade away. Sheeple will end up food or fodder for these animals, but you place a group of the element that commits crime in the prsence of someone with weapons and the will to use them. Their entire attitude is going to change.
The entire judicial system that we have been conditioned to accept will be virtually a thing of the past. Guns and strength will determine the future of this nation post SHTF.

Common sense laws and a simple legal system will need to be implemented. Impossible? No, but it would be hard to do, because we are all so accepting of laws that tell us all what to do when to do it, and how to do it.

There are groups out there right now that actively plot to overthrow the nation, just as I am sure there will be groups of gangs controlled by a warlord that will take control of entire areas of land and cities, and control through slavery, fear, intimidation and violence that many here are not accustomed too.
With that I can assure also there are groups planning on the rebuild when it all goes south, and the people that want to survive in an environment will be armed, dangerous and they will take a very dim look on the rights of the criminals and gangs. many will fade out, but in the end those that retain the hashness that will be required to exist in a world gone haywire must understand also that to remain safe... hunting is and will be insisted upon. You cannot allow you potential enemy to gain masses under his/her control... the enemy will need hunted down and eliminated fully.

It is a thought that many will recoil from... but also I figure that groups of the good guys will likely not take prisoners and if they do they will llikely have them about 6 mnutes before they are eliminated.

The strong and smart will survive... they must!!!
 

· Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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14,545 Posts
To the OP, what did your liberal friend have to say, out of curiosity. I'm guessing something like, "you're crazy man!" Good post.
He was probably called a racist that clinged to religion and guns and was most likely looked upon as a terrorist!


Sorry for hijacking.....:D:
 

· Semper Fi
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222 Posts
I don't know how long anyones ethical values will hold up.

Lopk at it this way, In a situation where lawlessness has taken over and the people that are armed are about the only thing standing between the issues of legality NOW.... and what was a legality THEN (pre SHTF).

A lot of things are going to be wieghted in split second decisions. Most of us here are of the mind set that we will fight, and the way many of us were raised we are going to be compasisonate towards the criminal element. It is what we have been taught. We have been taught that we ought to give them a second chance, or that they are misguided. It is not our fault per say that we think that way. It is because of our lifestyles and the society that wel ive in.
For example...a person in the ghettos of NYC is going to think a lot differently than a person living in rural america. Also, people that are conservative (some liberals) in nature and have a stronger stand on how to deal with the element. There are going to be a huge amount of varaibles that contribute to the decision of whether to line a gang up and hang or shoot them down or disarm them and run em off.

Look around and ack a person that has been in jail or even read stories on line about the mentality of the criminal. They know for the most part that they are going to get a candy walk in a short term prison. They have no fear of legal ramifications at all. The days of the liberal huggy kissy thing will or rather need to come to an end.
It will literally become a law of survival. Do they survive and spread or do the good people that want to survive and rebuild fade away. Sheeple will end up food or fodder for these animals, but you place a group of the element that commits crime in the prsence of someone with weapons and the will to use them. Their entire attitude is going to change.
The entire judicial system that we have been conditioned to accept will be virtually a thing of the past. Guns and strength will determine the future of this nation post SHTF.

Common sense laws and a simple legal system will need to be implemented. Impossible? No, but it would be hard to do, because we are all so accepting of laws that tell us all what to do when to do it, and how to do it.

There are groups out there right now that actively plot to overthrow the nation, just as I am sure there will be groups of gangs controlled by a warlord that will take control of entire areas of land and cities, and control through slavery, fear, intimidation and violence that many here are not accustomed too.
With that I can assure also there are groups planning on the rebuild when it all goes south, and the people that want to survive in an environment will be armed, dangerous and they will take a very dim look on the rights of the criminals and gangs. many will fade out, but in the end those that retain the hashness that will be required to exist in a world gone haywire must understand also that to remain safe... hunting is and will be insisted upon. You cannot allow you potential enemy to gain masses under his/her control... the enemy will need hunted down and eliminated fully.

It is a thought that many will recoil from... but also I figure that groups of the good guys will likely not take prisoners and if they do they will llikely have them about 6 mnutes before they are eliminated.

The strong and smart will survive... they must!!!
Gotta say Cowboy, I don't usually agree with you at all. However, I wholeheartedly agree with everything except what I bolded above. I only say that because IMO at that point you are no better than the enemy. As you were/are in law enforcement I'd suspect you know that to enforce the rule of law you kind of need to hold the moral high ground. If you're actively hunting down and killing suspected criminals, it gets kinda "iffy". I know that there wouldn't really be a rule of law, but where do you draw the line? Do you just go and kill everyone that has accusations against them?
 

· American fearmaker
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14,290 Posts
There are no ethics when it comes to survival. There are no moral issues when it comes to survival. There is no right nor wrong when it comes to survival. In a true survival situation, you do what you need to do in order to survive. You don't waste a lot of energy, don't go through excessive motions and you carefully plan your every move, action and re-action. The whole thing about survival breaks down into the most simple of things: Do you want to live or not? The guy coming at you with a bad attitude, knife or gun gives you cause for concern. It also puts you on alert that you may need to revoke this guy's birth certificate or permanent breathing privileges. The OP is correct in that using force is pretty much something unusual for most Americans. But, for some of us, we have had to use force time and again. Trust me, things can reach a point where one becomes tired of killing and/or fighting in order to survive but we do it any way. It will also reach a point where the use of force or killing becomes routine rather than unusual. It's sort of like a boxer who goes into the ring every day and at least once a week for a match. The boxer gets used to it but he doesn't like it. Same thing for people in survival mode too. They get used to doing what they need to get done but they may not like it.
 

· Information is Ammunition
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22,087 Posts
no doubt he and his warped ilk are all having a good laugh at that well thought out piece. even the people nearly drowned by flash floods, by katrina, or other natural disasters go right back to their old ways believing lightning won't strike twice.

thank you caveman
 
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