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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For long term thriving WTSHTF is to have with you some machinist tools or equipment. There are a few items I can’t see myself NOT having and those are:
A lathe, a mill, a grinder, a heavy vise, a vertical drill (or whatever someone else would call it), and a welder.
I have made many different components and parts with just these machines, some tools, and scrap metal I have laying around.

There are two more machines I am going to get as soon as my fund increases. I need a Hydrogen generator that turns water into Hydrogen gas and the other being the Honda multi fuel generator that can use hydrogen gas.

Is there any other useful long term living equipment that anyone can think of having WTSHTF?
 

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How about an old fashion stone (peddle driven) grinding wheel for sharpening axes etc.? A heavy duty Anvil and assortment of ballpeen and sledge hammers. Add a nice Double Bellows (which is easy to make) to this mix, and you're are into blacksmithing .
 

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Not only will those tools be great for personal use, but will be great to trade or barter your skills for the things you don't have.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
How about an old fashion stone (peddle driven) grinding wheel for sharpening axes etc.? A heavy duty Anvil and assortment of ballpeen and sledge hammers. Add a nice Double Bellows (which is easy to make) to this mix, and you're are into blacksmithing .
I agree with you on that. Some of those like the mill and lathe can be mini equipment. I am seeking tools that can do the same thing but don’t require electric. I can’t find anything about such things.

I hope more equipment that doesn’t cost a fortune can be thought of and put in these treads. Talking about becoming a blacksmith is a good profession. You can barter your skills and time for items such as bullets someone else might have stockpiled.
 

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Not sure how handy a lathe/mill would be. It takes alot of specialty machinery to make just one garbox or engine part. Surface grinders, case hardening ovens, etc... I have a smithy lathe/mill combo. It's not the best thing I used, but you can make alot of handy parts. Good to have around for my offroading / hot rod hobby.

You want to live with electricty alot? Ditch the little honda. Get a small diesel generator. Just from your neighbor's fuel tanks (consider 150 gallons each), you can run a diesel for a long long time.

A lumber mill would be great. You can make money with them today. Not too expensive, easy to use. If it's just for personal use, you could get away with a big chainsaw and a lumber jig for the saw. There's going to be barns and fences to make.

http://lumbermaker.com/

Of course anything to help you in the farm will be great. My kubota has a roto tiller, post hole digger, seeder, york rake, and the usual front bucket/backhoe. Looking to add a logging winch and covered cab.
 

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Hand cranked rotary screw driver and hand drill. Lehman's and Lee Tools have them. No electricity required.
 

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What is a hydro magic generator?

Found this on a google search; http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-work-a-solar-hydro-generator-167935/

Can these things be purchased? How do you seperate the two gases and then pressurize the hydrogen? Both gases are highly explosive.... I saw something on Discovery about a guy from MIT who makes hydrogen that he uses to heat his house and operate his vehicles.

Suppose Obama might give me a couple hundred thousand to manufacture this stuff?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
What is a hydro magic generator?

http://www.bjzxhl.com/eng/products-2.asp#2

Can these things be purchased? How do you seperate the two gases and then pressurize the hydrogen? Both gases are highly explosive.... I saw something on Discovery about a guy from MIT who makes hydrogen that he uses to heat his house and operate his vehicles.

Suppose Obama might give me a couple hundred thousand to manufacture this stuff?
I am sorry I didn't mean a Hydro Magic frankly I don't know where I got that. I am talking about a HL-500 Hydrogen Generator.

http://www.fuelcellstore.com/en/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=60&idproduct=485

Uh ... Oh yeah I want it so that it will compliment the power generator I will be getting shortly.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Hand cranked rotary screw driver and hand drill. Lehman's and Lee Tools have them. No electricity required.
I am keeping my eyes open for tools that don't require electric however most tools that don't are for woodworking projects.

I'm not saying I don't want them I just wish there were more metal working tools that didn't require electric.

It realy sets me off to think that there is technology today that would allow anyone to run everything they can imagine off of natural gas (in this case hydrogen) without being so dependant on the big oil.
 

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I would love to make my own solar panels and hitch them to a hydrogen generator especially if I could use the gas to run a six burner propane cooktop and heat domestic hot water too!

My typical electric bill is between $400 and $500 per month; seems I'm the only person that shuts stuff off and we seem to have a huge "ghost load" from appliances that has me thinking about running "switch loops" to all the power strips supplying current to TV, DVD, x-box etc. so I can shut off power to multiple ghost loads from one location instead of shutting off entire circuits.

Seems that in the present world of consumer electronics and gadgets my family is totally out of control; especially the kids who even enjoy electrically powered water chillers/heaters and their own freaking microwaves close to their TV.

Maybe I ought to invite you all over for an appliance shoot! Yes, I have blasted a few perfectly good copy/printers that were too fickle when I was trying to print a bill for customers... highly satisfying!

I figure we need about 40 180 watt panels to power this place or a small nuclear reactor and I can afford neither.

Anyone ever built their own panels from PV cells?
 

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There are several companies that make devices that convert water into Hydrogen gas.

One in particular is converting existing vehicles to run on Hydrogen but they have been almost sued out of existence because the hydrogen is free after you buy the generator.

Once they are up and running, you'll be able to convert ANY gasoline powered vehicle to run on Hydrogen for about 6-10,000 dollars.

The kicker is after that, you will NEVER have to pay for fuel again.
 

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There are two more machines I am going to get as soon as my fund increases. I need a Hydrogen generator that turns water into Hydrogen gas and the other being the Honda multi fuel generator that can use hydrogen gas.
OK, I am not an engineer but I do have a question or 2 for you. I am a little confused.

You are going to use the hydrogen generator to power your honda generator?

You are going to use the honda generator to power the hydrogen generator?

Whats the point????

If the hydrogen generator could produce more energy than it requires to operate then you have personally solved all the worlds energy needs forever.

But I am going to have to wager that the hydrogen generator produces less power than it requires to operate. You know, physics and all that!
 

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There are several companies that make devices that convert water into Hydrogen gas.

One in particular is converting existing vehicles to run on Hydrogen but they have been almost sued out of existence because the hydrogen is free after you buy the generator.

Once they are up and running, you'll be able to convert ANY gasoline powered vehicle to run on Hydrogen for about 6-10,000 dollars.

The kicker is after that, you will NEVER have to pay for fuel again.
You do realize that the conversion process, converting hydrogen to water requires power? It currently still costs more in energy to produce hydrogen than the energy potential of the hydrogen produced.
 

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I work in a power plant that has a hydrogen generator to keep a hydrogren gas cooled generator filled up. It does use more electricity energy than the hydrogen makes. Wind power to battery storage to electric car overall is about 85% efficcient. Wind power to hydrogen to hydrogen cell car is about 30% energy efficcient. Combustion engine overall efficiency is about 25%. Consider hydrogen another type of battery storage. It only is a viable fuel source for portable equipment If you already have a very cheap way of making alot of electricity (versus price of gas even at 4 a gallon). Right now that either nuclear or coal. Wind is subsidized from the government. They get a decent chuck of change from uncle sam for every kwh they make. Costs are too high to build/install/fix a 2mw unit versus the electricity it makes.

Where hydrogen has some merit in combustion engines is a fuel enrichment. It speeds up combustion times in your engine which makes your engine more fuel efficient. However, to properly achieve this the engine needs to be properly retuned (less timing advance and leaner mixture). Also, hydrogen enbrittles metals and that quicker burn does accelerate damage an wear to the piston crown as well as puts higher shockloads on the connecting rod bearings.

Best bet on generators. Find a small diesel genset (ONAN) for your power. IF you live in an area where heating oil is used alot, you can collect alot of fuel.

I have converted PV cells to a charging system twice. One recharged the batteries for a electric motor on my sailboat that was moored in a remote location. I also have a (6) 12x12 inch solar panel setup that charges (2) regular sized car batteries on my genset. I can hook up some small 20 or 10 watt 12v lights in the house, recharge AA or C batteries, or occasionally use a small appliance. Beside the PV cell and battery all you need is a diode to prevent discharging the batteries at night. A guy up the road from me sells them on ebay.
 

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I chuckle to myself, when I hear so called "survivalists" say things like..."I can't see myself NOT having certain items". What happens to those people when they find themselves without those certain items? Maybe you've only got a knife, maybe not? And what if the situation you find yourself in permanent? People are so accustom to comfort that even in an extreme SHTF situation, everyone still expects to live the luxurious life.
 

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You do realize that the conversion process, converting hydrogen to water requires power? It currently still costs more in energy to produce hydrogen than the energy potential of the hydrogen produced.


The system I speak of is solar powered and continually charges a metal hydride fuel cell.

It can charge a single cell in 2 days and a bank of four cells in a week.

Four cells can power a Corvette for a little over 400 miles.

The inventor has put over 300,000 miles on a Corvette using this technology with no problems.
 

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Surely if we all started converting water to Hydrogen, then we`d just end up running out of water just like we`re running out of oil ???
 

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The system I speak of is solar powered and continually charges a metal hydride fuel cell.

It can charge a single cell in 2 days and a bank of four cells in a week.

Four cells can power a Corvette for a little over 400 miles.

The inventor has put over 300,000 miles on a Corvette using this technology with no problems.

Cool:thumb:
 

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Surely if we all started converting water to Hydrogen, then we`d just end up running out of water just like we`re running out of oil ???
Go check you chemistry book....combining Hydrogen and Air (oxygen) produces power and the byproduct is water....you won't be running out of water anytime soon.
 
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