[kev]

If memory serves me right when the topic of the keytone pipeline first came up there was discussion of either build the pipeline or China would buy the oil. Since Biden ended the pipeline I have not heard any more discussion of China buying oil from Canada. I imagine talks are already underway to buy shiploads of oil from Canada now that we will not be building the keystone pipeline.

Has anyone heard of any updates on a China / Canada oil deal?

I hope Canada is doing everything it can to keep their oil out of the hands of communist, but then again everyone seems to love communist China these days.

 

[luckyfasteddie]

This oil is now being sent by rail to the 3 refineries that can process it . I do not know why Canada does not process it them selves and send out a finished product . BNSF is making a lot of money -$30 per barrel - to move it around . Canada now has to make up their mind on which way they will go . If they choose to build a new refinery and the pipe line needed to get the product to their west coast to ship it where ever , their will be lots of work for the XL pipe-liners put out of work . Lots of unintended consequences come with what Biden is doing .

 

[puttster]

Building the pipeline over the mountains to the coast has proven to be extremely challenging. getting the Indian tribes to let it pass through their land is an even bigger challenge. The harbors on the coast are pathetic. Building and then operating a refinery along the ROW would be outrageously expensive.
A project like this can not get financing without long term contracts at guaranteed rates, something China has not offered. Building on spec and hoping for a good price is way too risky because the builder may have to sell at his variable cost. If so, he will go bankrupt.
All this would be fine with China, maybe they would be willing to buy it all for pennies on the dollar.

 

[no_fair_fights]

This oil is now being sent by rail to the 3 refineries that can process it . I do not know why Canada does not process it them selves and send out a finished product . BNSF is making a lot of money -$30 per barrel - to move it around . Canada now has to make up their mind on which way they will go . If they choose to build a new refinery and the pipe line needed to get the product to their west coast to ship it where ever , their will be lots of work for the XL pipe-liners put out of work . Lots of unintended consequences come with what Biden is doing .

Canada's environmentalists are the reason why.

 

[luckyfasteddie]

Obviously the reason they chose the XL route in the first place . Right now it looks like the rail option is the least costly . Can they / will they shut the rail option down remains to be seen . Canada has to pay for the oil to be refined , they ought to be able to build and operate their own refinery for about the same cost as paying us too do it . Wonder if their processed oil is the same as ours .If so they just put it into their supply chain and use it themselves . Of course that option would put a lot of American workers out a job . I believe Canada has a coast to coast rail system . Tank cars could get to the coast much cheaper than building a new pipe line . The prospect of the XL not being completed must have been part of their pre planning of the whole endevor . They must have a plan B and are waiting for the dust to settle before putting it in place

 

[dmas]

Canada is busy building pipelines east to bc from alberta. First nations have lost at supreme court but continue legal fight. Meanwhile construction continues.
U.S. oil refiners set for worst earnings quarter of the pandemic
I posted this elsewhere, us refiners losing money. But a lot has to do with ethanol requirements.

 

[Reforger]

Well the Harris regime is beholding to china so ....

 

[Illini Warrior]

they'll never build a refinery in that area of Canada - just not economically feasible - transporting crude oil a distance overland is dangerous as hell - moving processed petroleum to the populated Candian or US markets would be suicide ...

this Biden crap most likely has killed off the new US refinery that was long time discussed & proposed - Keystone spurs off to the east to an existing IL refinery - new refinery would have been at the current termination point of the pipeline - tied into existing pipelines for the regional market ....

 

[luckyfasteddie]

they'll never build a refinery in that area of Canada - just not economically feasible - transporting crude oil a distance overland is dangerous as hell - moving processed petroleum to the populated Candian or US markets would be suicide ...

this Biden crap most likely has killed off the new US refinery that was long time discussed & proposed - Keystone spurs off to the east to an existing IL refinery - new refinery would have been at the current termination point of the pipeline - tied into existing pipelines for the regional market ....

Why would it be not economically feasable ? Right now a refinery right down the road from me ( Delaware ) gets its oil all the way from the end of the XL pipe line .

 

[dmas]

Plenty of refined product goes by pipeline.

 

[soocom1]

For the uninitiated:

Keystone was the brainchild of TransCanada Energy. An oil company that has it's HQ in Canada, NOT the US.

The pipeline was imagined because of the refinery abilities and the Port of Houston TX. The Gulf of Mexico would be ideal because of the shipping capacity and the speed by which the shipping could be done.
In Canada a pipeline east or west would have been cost prohibitive and overtly challenging, and any action on the Great lakes was out as well because of both US and Canadian Environmental policies.

The core of the idea was to pump oil sands to Houston then out in the Gulf.

The controversy stands from several points.
1: Crossing environmentally sensitive areas, major water courses, Tribal land and a host of private farmland in the US. It was more than tribes being upset.
2: The number of construction jobs would be well over 11,000 overall. BUT, the number of remaining jobs directly tied tot he pipeline AFTER construction has been estimated between 35-100.
3: Safety concerns have already cropped up with a number of highly questionable actions by TransCanada in the oil fields, the chemical involved and what would happen if a release took place in specific areas.
4: The almost literal railroading of taking of lands in the US. There is a lot more to the story and alot of folks involved have many versions. There is not just one. But the prose given to that was that TCE was using underhanded tactics to gain land for the pipeline.
5: Overall the pipeline would be a US liability, but we would not benefit much from it. There would be no "Energy Independence" from the pipeline as the oil would cross the US but be sold overseas.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

This chapter of the conspiracy is so simple; its outrageous. The west shuts down oil production AGAIN, holding us at bay, not to the Iranians (et al) but now to the Chinaman and RUSSIA. Look at a global map and then decide for yourself how much land is available for untapped exploration in china and siberia for oil and other minerals, PLUS, not being bogged down by EPA cronies to the guv. Bill in TR.

 

[ajole]

Canada is busy building pipelines east to bc from alberta.

SO....all the way around the planet?

BC is WEST of Alberta.... 😁

they'll never build a refinery in that area of Canada - just not economically feasible -

That's 95% due to the evironmentalists.

transporting crude oil a distance overland is dangerous as hell -

How far do you consider "a distance" to be? A LOT of guys out here are feeding their families just fine driving crude oil over 8000 and 9000 foot passes, over 150 miles one way in many cases.

Not much different than driving the other bazillion things Amazon is shipping these days, a truck full of non-flammable waxy crude is just a truck, in the end.

moving processed petroleum to the populated Candian or US markets would be suicide ...

I'm really confused by this comment.

EVERY populated market REQUIRES processed petroleum...they call it gas and diesel, kerosene and heating oil out here, and most cars and trucks require some form of it to operate. Having it around is kind of a big deal, in most places

Again, blame the environmentalists. In Utah we move ALL of our crude to the only major metro area around. We used to have a refinery out here where the oil is produced, but between the green laws and the oil company bean counters, it got shut down.

....this Biden crap most likely has killed off the new US refinery that was long time discussed & proposed - Keystone spurs off to the east to an existing IL refinery - new refinery would have been at the current termination point of the pipeline - tied into existing pipelines for the regional market ....

That's what the left wants.

 

[kev]

This oil is now being sent by rail to the 3 refineries that can process it . I do not know why Canada does not process it them selves and send out a finished product

Maybe because states like Texas are decades ahead of Canada in building refineries?

Not too many people know this, in the 1980s Texaco refinery in Port Arthur was the second largest refinery in the world, second only behind a refinery in Saudi Arabia. Part of the old Texaco refinery has been sold, and part has been demolished. At one time Texaco in Port Arthur had either the largest cat cracker, or the second largest cat cracker unit in the world.

If you do not know what a cat cracker is see this link - Fluid catalytic cracking - Wikipedia

 

[ajole]

Maybe because states like Texas are decades ahead of Canada in building refineries?

Maybe they could hire some Texans to come build it?

It's not about being unable to do it. It's about bowing down to the ecology warriors and being politically pushed out of the industry; AND about maintaining supply at levels that give the best manipulated prices. Not that they are winning that war lately.

 

[James Clark]

Well kev, what they're doing is it is going to China. The approved a few twinnings of pipelines in British Columbia and they're working on another marine shipping facility at Kitimat, if memory serves. China has set this all up quite carefully.

 

[dmas]

Well its canada that's doing it. Their oil is bottlenecked in alberta and to get higher price they need to get it to market. Could have been to gulf refineries but not now. So it goes to west coast then far east. Maybe some to the washington refineries since the alaska pipeline has cut back so much.

 

[Wyobuckaroo48]

I do not know why Canada does not process it them selves and send out a finished product
+++
Likely just as in the US, green people won't let a refinery be built.. They can't stop one wanting to be built, but can tie it up in courts so long it the idea wilts and dies..

The pipe line to the west coast is going forward across BC... And yes.. BC is indeed west of Alberta..

Federal finance ministers and such are saying with the block of the US pipeline Canada should take the US to court for breach of contracts... But with the prime minister and others turning a blind eye, that is likely to never happen..

 

[Justme11]

The Oil sand oil (tar) is extra heavy crude. The refinery requires significant complexity to refine it. So Canada cannot just slap up a simple refinery. It has to be special. Which makes it expensive.
They were rail shipping it to the PBF Refinery in Delaware City Delaware and a couple other US refineries no doubt on the Gulf coast. (not sure). Shipping it to the US to be refined brings money to the US refineries bigtime. And that gasoline and diesel can stay in the US market if needed.

Arbitrarily stopping a pipeline that has been under construction should be highly illegal. Pipelines are the most economical and safest way to transport oil. Stopping a pipeline is causing material harm to the USA. CHina owns Biden, and they will happily take that XXheavy canadian crude back to china, refine it there, and satisfy their fuel requirements.

Long term investments were made assuming that pipeline would be completed. A lot of money gets flushed down the toilet now.

Biden is conducting Economic Treason.

 

[zooeyhll]

I just lost $32,000 in promised easement payments from Keystone, for the pipeline going through my property. Money I really needed. Thank you, Mr. Biden.

The first pipeline went through my property in 2010. Keystone constantly monitors it. I don't even know it's there. The hysteria of the "greenies" over this pipeline is totally without merit.

The environmental movement is also pulling this crap in Third World countries. They simply don't care about people. To them, humanity is the enemy.

Check out a documentary film "Mine Your Own Business"

about how the environmentalists have stopped similar projects in third world countries. To the detriment of the local population and economy.