Electrician Question - light switch wiring

941 Views 26 Replies 15 Participants Last post by film495, 6 d ago

film495

Discussion Starter · 15 d ago

posting this because I kind of feel like I'm being punked and this doesn't make sense to me. There was a bay window where this sliding door is installed. I marked up the pic to show where there are two new exterior lights installed, but for some reason they said they could not get electrical in the wall for the switch, but they ran electrical to power the light on that same section of the wall.

The wiring for the switch that was put in, just goes directly up through the basement floor into the wall vertically to the switch. Why couldn't this have been done on the other side? You can see the open framing there.

I'm not an electrician, but I feel like I'm being punked and now have a light switch on the wall opposite how the door opens. Granted, the contractor who put the door in seems to be playing games with me and has been difficult, so - I don't know who approved, not me, cutting a hole in my drywall and putting the switch there, and the story I got about why it was put there, was - there was plumbing in the wall, but - there's not plubming in the wall there I could figure out for any reason. The contractor wanted to install the door offset to the left of the room, and have it open from the left side, but I guess I had difficulty explaining I just want a normal basic door installed in a normal standard way, and me that means, in the center of the room, and a door that opens from the interior with the right hand, is 99% more common or standard than one that opens the other way. Anyway, he seemed overly angry about my deciding against him on this, so - now I feel like somehow, the switch being there is a joke being played on me, or the contractor told the electrician to put the switch there and they are covering there bases when I objected.

I got back to the electrician and sent the same photo and asked for a better explanation. Just doens't make sense to me, seems like this should have been rather easy, but again, I'm not an electrician, I'm a dumb home owner.

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Trekkernottrekee

· #2 · 15 d ago

Bummer. He shouldn't have done his own design without your approval.
What is beneath the sliding door in the basement?

Reactions: 4

BigJohnx13

· #3 · 15 d ago

Not an electrician, but doing too many cable installation including elec (qual elec signs of COC). Don't know what you area housing codes allow you to do or not. I have learnt over time is to get a 2nd or 3rd opinion from the pro's. In this life anything is possible, sometimes it cost money, labour or material or a combination of 2 or 3 of the factors. The key is proper planning and execution of the job.

If it is a drywall it seems the answer was to install all the cables in the cavity before the door frame was fitted. The plug and lights should work on different thickness of cable and circuit breakers.

I would fit a 2 lever light switch next to the door for both ext lights (instead of 2 separate switches) as you enter or exit the door you operate both lights with one movement.

Fonz

· #4 · 15 d ago (Edited)

Probably lazy and did it because there was already existing circuit to tap into close to the left side of slider. It is difficult to run electrical around a slider because everything above it is obviously a header. Solid or close to it. So unless you can run a fish in between the floor trusses or have an access to the attic space, as in, if there isn't a 2nd story floor to deal with above where you're working.

On ceiling fans and lights, I've sometimes had to put in remote control switches where the owner wanted them due to inaccessibility to interior of wall or being unable to tap into an existing preferred circuit. Exterior walls of block are like that, hard to add or modify there.

Reactions: 4

irv818

· #5 · 15 d ago

What's under the floor? Crawl space, basement, concrete pad?
What's above the ceiling? Attic, 2nd story? Flat roof?

This might be simple laziness, or it might have been done because the alternatives would be very labor intensive and expensive.

I would, at this point, just get a remote switch and put it in the wall where you want it. Much cheaper solution to the problem. < $25 at HD.

Has an added security advantage - you can turn on the outside lights without standing at the glass doors and letting someone know who is inside.

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film495

Discussion Starter · #6 · 15 d ago (Edited)

below the door is a full basement, where my washer and dryer are. it is not finished and is open framing. the electrician ran a new circuit for the switch and two exterior lights, and exterior outlet. above the sliding door is living space, well closets off the 2nd floor master bedroom.

the wiring for the switch that was put there, runs directly vertical from a hole drilled from the basement directly up to the switch. so, when I look at the photo, I have to ask the question why a hole was not just made on the other side, and just run directly up through the new framing on the side of the door.

I sent the electrician the same photo and question was posed again today in email, saying because I'm going to want to fix this, and knowing exactly what the issue was will help me plan for that.

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irv818

· #7 · 15 d ago

film495 said:
below the door is a full basement, where my washer and dryer are. it is not finished and is open framing. the electrician ran a new circuit for the switch and two exterior lights, and exterior outlet. above the sliding door is living space, well closets off the 2nd floor master bedroom.

He should have put the switch where you wanted, working from the basement.
However, I think my remote control is a better alternative now - just because it would keep you, your wife or kid away from the door if they had reason to turn on the outside lights at night. You could operate them from your phone from another room.

Install it yourself in a few minutes, and you're done.

film495

Discussion Starter · #8 · 15 d ago

irv818 said:
He should have put the switch where you wanted, working from the basement.
However, I think my remote control is a better alternative now - just because it would keep you, your wife or kid away from the door if they had reason to turn on the outside lights at night. You could operate them from your phone from another room.

Install it yourself in a few minutes, and you're done.

It is a good idea, but I don't do anything with apps or remote anything unless I absolutely have to. I just want a normal switch installed correctly, and not 8 feet away on the other side of the door.

Reactions: 1

John Matherson

· #9 · 15 d ago

It's possible that there is plumbing up there. Sometimes a breather or drain line will take a jog over right before the top plate. Since he ran one of the new lights on that side, I have to say that it was something like that or it wouldn't make sense. A 3" drain pipe will hog out that space and make it really difficult to fish a line through especially if it turns any.

I usually try to show a customer what the problem is so they can visualize the problem so the solution is easier them to accept, but then I also try to give them alternative choices for placement too.

I would see if they can point out where the pipe is interfering.

Illini Warrior

· #10 · 15 d ago

logic dictates the crap electrical job was done thru laziness - if there was an actual good reason the guy would have discussed that the job will be ****ed - head off a later bad discussion >>> he thru in the box & wiring the quickiest & eaziest and hoped he'd be gone before the "dumb homeowner" realized the crapiness ....

UserNameTaken

· #11 · 15 d ago (Edited)

From what I can see you should be able to drill the sill and run wire from the basement up to a switch on the right, where you want it. Then drill the stud to run wire to the fixture on the right. Double wire back down into the basement, then drill again to reach the other fixture.

Should be ok to run 14/2 romex without conduit. Check your codes, and plans.

Do you know what circuit you'll be tapping into? Or a new breaker? Is there enough excess power to not cause an overload? Especially with the outside plug.

The easiest way is to look at the plans you submitted when you pulled your permit, then follow what was approved. There may be a structural engineering page for the header, framing and electrical.

I'd rip the rest of the drywall off so your joints are in the corners. Just patching it like it shows in the pic, it's gonna crack after using the door and hot/cold cycles for a few years.

Do it right.

If your dude doesn't have a Milwalkee 90 deg angle drill, get rid of him, he doesn't know what he's doing.

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Reactions: 1

Stwood

· #12 · 15 d ago

I'd be measuring over from the door to that opening between studs to the right there, and head down in the basement and finding their 'plumbing issue'.
Is there a hydrant outside in that area?

Reactions: 1

Wyomike

· #13 · 15 d ago

film495 said:
posting this because I kind of feel like I'm being punked and this doesn't make sense to me. There was a bay window where this sliding door is installed. I marked up the pic to show where there are two new exterior lights installed, but for some reason they said they could not get electrical in the wall for the switch, but they ran electrical to power the light on that same section of the wall.

The wiring for the switch that was put in, just goes directly up through the basement floor into the wall vertically to the switch. Why couldn't this have been done on the other side? You can see the open framing there.

I'm not an electrician, but I feel like I'm being punked and now have a light switch on the wall opposite how the door opens. Granted, the contractor who put the door in seems to be playing games with me and has been difficult, so - I don't know who approved, not me, cutting a hole in my drywall and putting the switch there, and the story I got about why it was put there, was - there was plumbing in the wall, but - there's not plubming in the wall there I could figure out for any reason. The contractor wanted to install the door offset to the left of the room, and have it open from the left side, but I guess I had difficulty explaining I just want a normal basic door installed in a normal standard way, and me that means, in the center of the room, and a door that opens from the interior with the right hand, is 99% more common or standard than one that opens the other way. Anyway, he seemed overly angry about my deciding against him on this, so - now I feel like somehow, the switch being there is a joke being played on me, or the contractor told the electrician to put the switch there and they are covering there bases when I objected.

I got back to the electrician and sent the same photo and asked for a better explanation. Just doens't make sense to me, seems like this should have been rather easy, but again, I'm not an electrician, I'm a dumb home owner.

View attachment 519567

Damn, looks like you got a cool backyard. Can’t help with the light switch though.

film495

Discussion Starter · #14 · 15 d ago

John Matherson said:
It's possible that there is plumbing up there. Sometimes a breather or drain line will take a jog over right before the top plate. Since he ran one of the new lights on that side, I have to say that it was something like that or it wouldn't make sense. A 3" drain pipe will hog out that space and make it really difficult to fish a line through especially if it turns any.

I usually try to show a customer what the problem is so they can visualize the problem so the solution is easier them to accept, but then I also try to give them alternative choices for placement too.

I would see if they can point out where the pipe is interfering.

I sent the electrician the same photo, and asked the same questions I posted here. Maybe there is the sink vent piping, the room to the right behind that wall is a bathroom, above that bathroom a 2nd story bathroom, and on the roof is the vent, that piping gets from the first story to the roof somehow. Still doesn't answer the question why they couldn't just run wiring up into the open framing to a switch and back down, seem like that would have been the easiest part.

Guess I'll see what they say. I'll also likely have a chance to ask more questions about code etc. as part of the inspection process associated with the permit. Town had me pull a building permit, and an electrical permit.

Oh, it took me 4 months to get an electrician in my house. Around here contractors, electricians, plumbers, all have more work than they know what to do with.

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Illini Warrior

· #15 · 14 d ago

don't know what area of the country this is supposed to be - but being an outside wall in question >> are they still running plumbing down the outside & outer walls in the southern states???

HDCowboy

· #16 · 14 d ago

As an electrician I can tell you they obviously could have mounted the switch on the other side of the door especially since they were able to mount the new exterior light on that side but as far as exactly how to run the wiring no one cant tell you unless you rip out the sheetrock on the wall and take more pics as none of us here here has any kind of x-ray vision super power to see whats behind the wall! LOL!

Reactions: 2

Brettny

· #17 · 14 d ago

HDCowboy said:
none of us here here has any kind of x-ray vision super power to see whats behind the wall! LOL

Thas the thing though you dont need Xray vision to see that next to the door handle is a section with no drywall and no plumbing in it.

I would have them move it. I hope you didnt pay in full.

Reactions: 2

film495

Discussion Starter · #18 · 14 d ago

response from the electrician is the framing was not done when the switch was put in, and next to the open framing he found plumbing and went with plan B. I poked around, and in the wall between that room and the adjacent room, the septic vent comes up into the wall between the two rooms from the basement, it must run to the exterior wall and go up through the framing where he was going to install the switch and ran into the plumbing. kind of concerned then that he may have poked a hole in the pipe that is the exterior septic vent, no idea how I would ever test something like that.

at least what he is saying makes sense. I'm not thrilled about it necessarily, but it did take about 4 months to get an electrician in the house to do the work, so - really as long as it is done and I know why it was done that way. If I ever care to move the switch over to the other side of the door, he confirmed it could be done, so - it would just be a matter of how much it really matters to me, and since I'm doing a lot of work on the house this year, and trying to stay tight to a budget, it is good.

The invoice is dated due by June 15th, so - I guess I have a little more time to stew on it, but they came in on budget and I really had the electrician do a bunch of work over two full days, so - I think I'm going to count myself lucky I got an electrician in my house at all and the work is completed. Maybe I'll spend a little time trying to figure out how I would even know if they put a hole in that vent pipe. That would be an issue I think.

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HDCowboy

· #19 · 14 d ago

Brettny said:
Thas the thing though you dont need Xray vision to see that next to the door handle is a section with no drywall and no plumbing in it.

I would have them move it. I hope you didnt pay in full.

Like I said it can be done but you still have to attach to the existing wiring somewhere somehow which could very well involve tearing out some sheetrock and other work!!

John Matherson

· #20 · 14 d ago (Edited)

film495 said:
I sent the electrician the same photo, and asked the same questions I posted here. Maybe there is the sink vent piping, the room to the right behind that wall is a bathroom, above that bathroom a 2nd story bathroom, and on the roof is the vent, that piping gets from the first story to the roof somehow. Still doesn't answer the question why they couldn't just run wiring up into the open framing to a switch and back down, seem like that would have been the easiest part.

Guess I'll see what they say. I'll also likely have a chance to ask more questions about code etc. as part of the inspection process associated with the permit. Town had me pull a building permit, and an electrical permit.

Oh, it took me 4 months to get an electrician in my house. Around here contractors, electricians, plumbers, all have more work than they know what to do with.

I agree, I posted that before I realized you had a basement and that's where the breaker box is. Generally here in the south, power is ran up in between 1st and 2nd floor or through the attic, but where the power is kind of blows that up.

It should have been straight forward with it there if nothing is blocking access from below.

Brettny said:
Thas the thing though you dont need Xray vision to see that next to the door handle is a section with no drywall and no plumbing in it.

I would have them move it. I hope you didnt pay in full.

The potential problem is what you can't see. Above or below, in his case below. You don't know if there is access to the floor plate in that opening. Power has to come from somewhere.
I would imagine, there should be enough room for some 12g wire to fish through.

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