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Maybe "dividing resources in your long term survival plans" is a good title for this thread. But its all I could think of at the time.

Like a lot of people my wife and I have limited resources. We are just everyday middle class people trying to get by. Just like everyone else we pay our taxes, pay the electric bill, internet, health insurance,,,,. Once everything is paid we try to save money.

The issue we are running into, my wife and I are looking at moving away from Jasper Texas to a rural area. Jasper is already rural, but we want to get further away from town.

We need to put a water well on the land, sewer system, build a chicken yard,,, and a few ether odds and ends to get our new life started.

Then came the Adam Lanza incident and renewed calls for an assault rifle ban.

I am finding myself pulled into some of the panic buying. There was a short period of time between the shooting and Dianne Feinstein calling for more gun control and prices going through the roof. During that short time period I picked up another AR-15 for less then $1,000.

A gun store has some AR-15s for $1,300 each. As I consider buying another AR while I still can, I keep thinking about what that $1,300 could pay for at the homestead. We could probably put down a septic system for between $1,500 and $2,000.

But then again, we are not looking at a ban on septic systems.

When you have X amount of resources, and two projects that need funding, how do you decide which is the best long term investment.

I see the AR-15s as an investment into security for my family and my property.

But then again, if all I wanted is a firearm, I already have those bases covered.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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I understand your dilemma but how much would an AR-15 add to your security? I do not know your current gun collection or your rural Texas needs. I cannot see AR's being ban but who am I.

Unless you see an AR as necessary to your homestead defense then pass. Your life will be full thing that will no longer be made things you will like to have.. Few if any of them will contribute to your long term well being.

Merry Christmas
 

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The fact that you might never be able to buy an AR again makes it hard to resist getting one while you still can .
But , times being what they are - the economic effects of going over the fiscal cliff , 0care and other tax hikes coming , the cost of just about everything constantley rising , etc. - now is not the time to spend $ on things you don't absolutely need .
As you said , you already have the firearms bases covered and you need $ for your new homestead .
Maybe you should sell that new AR . Sell it now and you could probably make a nice proffit . Wait too long and new laws/restrictions might prohibit you from selling it .
 

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Run, you clever boy.
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When you have X amount of resources, and two projects that need funding, how do you decide which is the best long term investment.
Expected usage over time, comparison of alternatives and order of necessity. I'd use a septic system much more, and more frequently, than any weapon, but there are also alternatives to septic systems, so that would even out those two variables. However, getting the property ready and providing a clean, safe environment for myself would rank higher on my list of necessities, because if I'm dead or sick from poor waste disposal, or my property isn't sufficiently prepared for me to live on, then I don't have much to protect and therefore less need for a(nother) weapon.

So if I were in your shoes, I'd be putting the money toward preparing the property, or preparing the family to use alternative waste disposal methods (humanure or outhouse, for example) and setting aside funding for that, then look at what I have left to invest in additional security measures.

I see the AR-15s as an investment into security for my family and my property.

But then again, if all I wanted is a firearm, I already have those bases covered.
As I said, if I were in your shoes, I'd focus on the property first. But I'm not in your shoes, I have no family to protect and I'm satisfied with the weapons available to me now, so I can't give a wholly unbiased perspective on this. Nevertheless, I still believe making the property the primary objective is the wisest course of action, even if it's only talking it over with the family and making certain that everyone is on board with using an outhouse or humanure system, comfortable with the idea and fully prepared to use whatever you settle upon without complaint or constraint. You can't shoot a bacteria or virus, after all, and something of that nature would be a far greater threat to your family than anything you could handle with a weapon.
 

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I understand your dilemma but how much would an AR-15 add to your security?

Unless you see an AR as necessary to your homestead defense then pass.

Your life will be full thing that will no longer be made things you will like to have.. Few if any of them will contribute to your long term well being.
Virtually every post you have on this site is criticizing those who want to prepare. Why do you do that? Get a life and go join a sheeple forum. But really - - - every post you have is critical of anyone who prepares. You suggest buying stock instead of food (in another post).

And now you post on this thread started by the person who started this forum and to whom all of us who take prepping seriously are grateful for all his actions. Really?
 

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Maybe just take 15% to 20% of that money and purchase replacement parts to keep your current weapons functioning properly longer. That way you keep the bulk of your money for land or septic or whatever.

You should be able to purchase ar's through the rest of this year. They are just going to cost a lot more than they did a couple of weeks ago.

Just a thought.
 

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Stay the Course
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My AR has already doubled in worth since the events that have happened. However, personally I don't see why wanting another one just to have one can in any way sway my decision for a better home life.

The AR platform will not go away. It may be harder and harder to optain one in the future, but it also may become harder and harder to optain a new home that you are looking for as well.
 

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It's a tough call. Personally, I think if the ban is anything like the last one, where if you met 2 or 3 of these conditions it constitutes an "assault weapon" then I would wait. I have heard that they're talking about "military pattern" rifles, and they would like to ban the possession of them. This could swing drastically from one side to the other before something actually gets passed.

The AR platform will not go away. It may be harder and harder to optain one in the future, but it also may become harder and harder to optain a new home that you are looking for as well.
My advice, and it's worth every penny :), would be to take an honest evaluation of your needs in terms of firearms compared to where you want to be with the homestead. I'm sure if you've been buying groceries, or ammo, or many other things, you've seen the value of our dollar decrease over time. I seriously doubt that we've seen the end of this either. If costs started to increase even more, due to the Fiscal Cliff, or Obamacare, how would that change your plans? Is it a "panic buy" or is it a justifiable need?

If I were in the position to move out of town onto a homestead that could be somewhat self-sustainable, I would lean heavily that way if I had my firearms bases covered. I agree with Woodswalker, it's time to spend judiciously. Either way it's a prep, which is the biggest hole?
 

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Non ducor, duco.
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Virtually every post you have on this site is criticizing those who want to prepare. Why do you do that? Get a life and go join a sheeple forum. But really - - - every post you have is critical of anyone who prepares. You suggest buying stock instead of food (in another post).

And now you post on this thread started by the person who started this forum and to whom all of us who take prepping seriously are grateful for all his actions. Really?
Becuase PT is a government shill no doubt about it if you read his posts
 

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So this is my thinking. Right now it may set you back 1300 bucks. However if this thing passes in January, or even a few months after than your investment will only go up. If there is no ban, no further restrictions on firearms, then it wont be hard to get most of your money back if not all of it back if you keep it unfired in box. Its a matter of patients. If right now your 1300 will only cover the septic system, then in another year it may cover both your well and septic system. Just saying. Panic buying right now is not entirely a bad thing. As far as which one to do that is entirely your decision, you know best for your family and situation.
 

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MY 2 cents....

If I already had an AR for myself and my wife, plus ammo, I would put my money into setting up the new property.
I can only shoot one at a time. I would not be looking to make money on selling one as if it all hit the fan.....money wouldn't be worth a lot anyway.

Research building a composting toilet. Way cheaper and you get to use the resulting material to improve the soil for growing fruit trees for example.
A lot of what I have done at home has been done with little money and a lot of recycling. Surprising what can be done and it doesn't have to look like a hack job just because it didn't involve new materials.
 

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Expect No Mercy!
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I say buy the AR. They can, and probably will go away with the stroke of an executive order being rammed down our throats by the person in the white house (NOT my president).
Sewers and general ammo will still be here when he is gone.
Two or three months to recoupe the $1300.00 is better than being shut out now on getting a second gun that you obviously want.:thumb::)
That is just my feeling anyway.
 

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I won't evaluate the advisability of whether to buy another weapon, absolutely NOT an area I have any intelligence or expertise in. :) On one hand you have the fact that if you buy one more weapon, does that mean you don't have anything to defend or if you don't buy one more weapon then what will it matter what you have/do if you can't defend it. Which came first, the chicken or the egg...

But septic tanks and wells, now I've bought those during the years. :) When we bought our place 15 years ago, people laughed when I insisted on the biggest septic tank available since there were only three of us. But within about 3 years the price of septic tanks had tripled around here only due to additional fees and state requirements, some of which only should apply in flood zones. When we got our well put in, I got the well size and pump that would allow us to water crops also from our home well. It seemed pricey at the time, since money flows like water when you are setting up a homestead. The same well now can't be drilled without special permits and once you get those, the cost is over 6 times what ours cost.

My point being that while they aren't likely to ban septic tanks, sudden political changes from the national level (environmental government is going to be sticking their noses in our business in an ever-intrusive manner in the next four years, in my observation) down to the very local level (the county commissioner that is elected whose third cousin's friend's sister had a classmate who fell in an old septic tank 30 years ago, therefore they should all have extra restrictions on them), it takes just a puff of wind of change to make something so simple, a septic tank, so complicated.

I'm sure you have evaluated these things and seen many of these changes, but many of the people just considering homesteading might not see the longer picture when looking at where to invest their money when setting up.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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Virtually every post you have on this site is criticizing those who want to prepare. Why do you do that? Get a life and go join a sheeple forum. But really - - - every post you have is critical of anyone who prepares. You suggest buying stock instead of food (in another post).

And now you post on this thread started by the person who started this forum and to whom all of us who take prepping seriously are grateful for all his actions. Really?
Prepping is training ones mind to make good decisions in a prioritized way. Purchasing on a whim is one of those things to be disciplined against. Add to that conservation of resources comes next. Buying overpriced items from prepping vendors is poor judgement and a waste of resources.

One should only buy items from prepping vendors that one does not have the skills to fashion; could be dangerous if done incorrectly or has an efficiency of space and weight.

It is foolish to buy a years supply of food from a prepping vendor but not a three day supply to be backpacked over a mountain.

Stop acting like a drug pusher.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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Plans change. Good thinkers are flexible and allow themselves to change their plans when circumstances require it.

Poor thinkers are rigid and cannot easily acknowledge when circumstances have overtaken their plans.


I especially like your comment, Kev, about how there's no ban on septic systems looming on the horizon.


I've altered my purchasing patterns based on events; if I see that something is likely to shoot up in price, I'll stock it now instead of later as I had planned. Did that with peanut butter last year.

Now, I read this morning in the newspaper that dairy prices are likely to shoot up. That makes me want to buy more dried milk, whereas it wasn't a priority before (I have a fair amount stocked).


W/R/T weapons, should people hurry to get what they can while they can? I don't know--I just remember so clearly four years ago when I couldn't get primers at almost any price. Eventually that worked its way out and when the price and availability suited me, I bought a bunch.

My home armory is...ok, I think. Couple of M4s, three handguns, two shotguns, a Ruger 10/22.

Should I add another AR or M4? Not at $1300. Magazines? I have a decent number of them. Would I be better off putting $1300 into an alternate heating system for my home? In the dead of winter, grid down, nat gas down, I think that heating system would be more valuable.


I guess the upshot is this--I've got to believe, Kev, you're in fairly good shape with weapons. Is buying one more gun more important than moving out to a more rural area with a more sustainable lifestyle? I'm thinking the gun is less important, especially since you'll likely pay gouging prices for it.
 

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With the recent incident in CT I also went looking for another AR or Mini-14 and could find none in the 4 gun stores I searched --- one actually told me that since the event he has been ordering 15-20 per day for buyers..... I decided to purchase another 870 and put the rest of the possible money I would have spent into purchasing ammunition..... plus then I can concentrate on preps around the house and BOL..... not really worried about finding more "black guns" because I am the only one in the house right now who would probably shoulder one anyway
 

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kev said:
A gun store has some AR-15s for $1,300 each. As I consider buying another AR while I still can, I keep thinking about what that $1,300 could pay for at the homestead. We could probably put down a septic system for between $1,500 and $2,000.
And

redneckidokie said:
I say buy the AR. They can, and probably will go away with the stroke of an executive order being rammed down our throats by the person in the white house
Boy, tough one. By professional training I think like an economist and everything is a range of probabilistic outcomes. Variables are how long till SHTF, in your view, how prepped you are (early stages, like me, later stages where you're putting in finishing touches), how personally useful the gun is to you in your situation, and lots of other factors.

Only you can decide for yourself, our input about what we would do in our situation probably does not apply. Here's how I would think about it though, if it helps.

If you are early on in your prepping (as founder of the forum, I doubt that, I just don't know you guys very well), with lots of other stuff to cover, then you have the AR box checked, do something else.

If you are later on in your prepping, with most bases pretty well covered, then it might be a fantastic 'investment'. Although you can't shoot 2 AR's, you may have reason to want to arm another person. If they are banned, an AR with a couple mags and a few hundred rounds of ammunition could get you who knows what in trade after SHTF? All other things being equal, less prepped favors passing on it, more prepped favors getting another one.

What is your view on the potential of these being unavailable in the future? I would submit, without being too political, you only have to listen to some early interviews with Obama, read his speeches on the gun control topic, and look at his behavior with regard to executive orders, 'recess' appointments, and rampant regulatory abuse, and add to that his potential to alter the SCOTUS, and you can make a powerful case that we may not be able to get AR's for a long, long time, if ever. In keeping with my thinking like an economist, maybe there is a 10% probability there will be no change at all in regulation and availability, maybe on the other side there is a 10% chance of them becoming illegal and anyone who owns one being made a felon by the stroke of a pen. The 80% in between encompasses everything else, from re-enactment of the former AWB with ways to get around it, to elimination of this type of weapon being sold, but current owners being grandfathered -- there are a myriad of potential scenarios. You have to do a risk assessment of your own here, we're all flying blind. But I'd say we are headed toward increased availability and restrictions, don't you agree? And the Newtown shootings only made rational national discussion that much more difficult and public demand that the government do something that much more heated. Maybe we should not feel so alarmist, but you don't have to be a tinfoil hat nutter to fear the worst, that's for sure!

How much time do you think you have? If you think the SHTF is a ways off yet, all other things being equal, that favors getting the gun and letting your other preps catch up. Personally, I hope the SHTF is still a couple years away, because I am late to this party. However, unlike in times past (Latin American debt crisis of the 80's, Asian crisis of the 90's, Argentina of 2001) the current house of cards is not limited to one country or a small region. It is global, at least among developed economies.

Once this thing starts, it will likely spread like a California wildfire fueled by the Santa Ana winds. So far rioting in Europe has been spotty. If we get rioting at the same time in Athens, Rome, Barcelona and Madrid, coupled with any number of other things (stock market crash, failure of a U.S. bond auction, collapse of the Euro currency) and we could be hip deep in sheep dip pretty quickly. I am thinking this thing has to collapse of its own weight in the next 12-36 months, but it could go in 6 weeks with the right set of circumstances. Your views on timing and your assessment of your personal level of preparedness, I think, are the critical factors in this decision.


I have no idea if I helped at all, or just muddied the waters. :) But good luck! And think fast, because that AR being available at any price is probably measured in hours. Hopefully the store you saw it in does not have a website and is closed today. If you decide you want it, get to their front door a couple hours before they open tomorrow, this situation has gotten really insane really fast.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!
 

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Ok am I missing something here??? Are you John Rambo? Can you handle an AR in each hand?

From my understanding, you already have 2... do you think you'll need a third? I understand 2 is 1 and 1 is 0... but that's why you stock up on the replacement parts most likely needed to be replaced.

Second, thing I think you should consider is what is going to move you out to the homestead quicker.

If the crap hits the fan, are you going to want to bug in where you are? How much more likely are you going to need that AR where you are vs, where you are going?

Everyone seems to picture a Normandy style battle for the beach when it hits the fan. If this actually happens, you're screwed even if you live...

I would put my money into what ever it is you need to get out of your populated area. It's far better to hide than to fight, you live a lot longer when there aren't any bullets flying at you.

As preppers, we do try to stay ahead of trends, and buy things while they are cheap, but priorities need to remain a primary factor. If you had $1,300 sitting in the bank and you had confidence the price was going to rise significantly, you may want to invest that money into the AR. But if you're not just "sitting" on that money in the bank, and your saving up for something, don't set yourself back for a third something you probably won't need, and get a first something you definitely will need.

Besides, unless this is really nice AR, (like you spent the money to build it yourself) don't jump on it. The last one I built cost me $750 (almost 2 years ago) and I felt like I spent too much money... Paying $1300 for a store bought model... sounds stupid to me. But that may be a bit harsh.

Save your money, and use it to get out of dodge!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
How much time do you think you have?
I think we are looking at the USA slowly becoming a third world country.

Our factories have gone away, china is looking at becoming a world power, even Brazil is growing faster then the USA.

I suspect that by 2016, maybe 2020 we are going to be in deep crap.
 
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