Survivalist Forum banner
21 - 40 of 74 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
The big lack of consistency in this argument is always funny.

No one would argue carrying FMJ for their defensive pisitols, yet they think it's the best round for self defense in an AR-15.. Although, they would almost always tell you NOT to hunt with one because it won't get a quick "humane" kill. Go fig on that one....

there are better options for sure when hunting two legged critters. Something with a solid expansion and improved terminal ballistics.

I have found that soft points get too may feed issues. So I stick with hollow points. 68 grain Hornady (product number 2278).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
9MM wasn't part of the question. Magazines full of any Milsurp 5.56 ammo that goes bang every time and hits the target will get my nod. We are talking soft skinned two legged critters here not bull elephants. Reliability is the key not the little extra weight/energy/expansion a quality bullet will get you. Cost and reliability in your gun are the key factors you have to consider.
I won't agree with this all. Reliability is a factor, but when the round doesn't do what it is supposed to you can get into trouble. While some idiots here will think a pistol caliber carbine is better than a rifle round (cost and necessity aside) this is normally wrong. That said an improperly functioning round due to reasons you can read about below, would make the pistol carbine a better choice. That is purely unsat.

In reality the M855 in all but a select few weapons is a poor round to use for anything else then shooting targets. With the price of M855 normally it wouldn’t be my choice for training and sure as hell won’t be shot for self defense.

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/robertsndia2008.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I use Hornandy 223 60 gr. TAP URBAN®, 2 Magazines of 29 in each in magazine coupler. Should work just fine for any defensive situation in our home (Plaster/ Double Block Walls). No kids at home, just my wife and myself (and pets). 10" of penetration should do the job "times" as many rounds as it takes.

Bullet: 60 gr. TAP URBAN®
B.C.: .265 S.D.: .171
Muzzle Velocity: 2863 fps
Barrel: 16"
Twist Rate: 1 in 9"
Total Penetration: 10"
Max. Cavity: 5.25"
Depth to Max. Cav.: 4.75"
Entry: 0"
Retained Weight: 23 gr.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,017 Posts
I was just wondering what defensive 55.56 or .223 round everyone is stocking up on. Im going shopping tomorrow so i need to figure out what to get.
I prefer MK318 MOD 0 SOST. It fragments, it penetrates, and it gives about 2MOA accuracy in my 10 shot 100 yard tests from a rifle that does about 1 MOA with T2 in my hands during similar. It upsets IMMEDIATELY vs. waiting for yaw like many other 5.56 rounds.
 

·
Crusty, Crunchy and Cute
Joined
·
3,040 Posts
I won't agree with this all. Reliability is a factor, but when the round doesn't do what it is supposed to you can get into trouble. While some idiots here will think a pistol caliber carbine is better than a rifle round (cost and necessity aside) this is normally wrong. That said an improperly functioning round due to reasons you can read about below, would make the pistol carbine a better choice. That is purely unsat.

In reality the M855 in all but a select few weapons is a poor round to use for anything else then shooting targets. With the price of M855 normally it wouldn’t be my choice for training and sure as hell won’t be shot for self defense.

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/robertsndia2008.pdf
If it doesn't feed or fire or eject reliability you are carrying a club. If it doesn't hit the target everytime you are just busting sky. A premier bullet will do more damage with a hit but first consideration is a hit. I am not a fan of the .223 but I am not volunteering to get with any 5.56 or .225 bullet whether it explodes, expands or holds its shape for a clean hole in and out. Not all guns will shoot the updated rounds but I haven't met any in good shape that would not shoot hardball. I reiterate, ammo must go bang and hit your target, that is the first consideration, everything else is details.
 

·
Gone Galt
Joined
·
22,533 Posts
So if a hostile sees an AR pointed at his gut, he's gonna wonder if there is a defensive round loaded strong enough to stop him before he charges? Seriously, folks.

I hope he doesn't laugh at the (always reliable) PMC FMJ rounds ventilating him.:rolleyes:
My thinking on "defensive" AR-15 ammo is not really more stopping power, but trying to stop the round from over penetration - for an urban setting. That's my hope at least.

I have PMC ammo as well, and 3 or 4 rounds to the chest WILL put down the average bad guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
If it doesn't feed or fire or eject reliability you are carrying a club. If it doesn't hit the target everytime you are just busting sky. A premier bullet will do more damage with a hit but first consideration is a hit. I am not a fan of the .223 but I am not volunteering to get with any 5.56 or .225 bullet whether it explodes, expands or holds its shape for a clean hole in and out. Not all guns will shoot the updated rounds but I haven't met any in good shape that would not shoot hardball. I reiterate, ammo must go bang and hit your target, that is the first consideration, everything else is details.
No disagreements in the point, but if you don't take the time to put a decent round in your weapon (for self defense not training) then you are up the creek without a paddle. With that said even Wolf Ammo will generally and reliably fire, and add to that it is a better choice for most of the modern M-4 style rifles. Not saying go and buy it for self defense but it is a better choice then M855/SS109. I am not a huge fan of the 5.56 myself but it can be tuned to be deadly out at a good range, and even with not as accurate ammo, I will assume even my training ammo considering I get a good grain will probably lay out most people. Unlike what the Army was going through where the rounds were passing through the enemy. I have posted the report 20-30 times here alone, and it is easily searched for. Yes it was probably causing a kill in the long run, but the warrior on the other end defiantly could stand and fight longer.

Being in the states normally I want my rounds for self defense to drop the criminal hard and fast without allowing him to retaliate from the sharp pains he should be experiencing. Frankly most rounds these days work fine, and have a high reliability ratio.
 

·
present and accounted for
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
The Hornady TAP has never been an issue in my DPMS AR...buddy has a Rock River that he puts Wolf 62gr HP through, never any trouble with those and it is CHEAP (and currently impossible to find in any quantity)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
From deployment, I know first hand that a 5.56 XM855 62gr Green Tip will kill a man at 600 meters with one shot in the chest. Buy a can ( or few cans) of 420 rds and keep it for SHTF.
Umm and what about up close which is what the whole article I posted was all about, and how many shots at 600 meters did you take? Its amazing you got to shoot someone at 600 meters with the majority of snipers reporting most of there shots are taken under 400 yards, and the infantry having nearly every round fired at targets under 300....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
978 Posts
Umm and what about up close which is what the whole article I posted was all about, and how many shots at 600 meters did you take? Its amazing you got to shoot someone at 600 meters with the majority of snipers reporting most of there shots are taken under 400 yards, and the infantry having nearly every round fired at targets under 300....
Yea.. 600 yards is on the high side of it's effective range it's only traveling around 1300 fps and thats out of a 16" barrel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Umm and what about up close which is what the whole article I posted was all about, and how many shots at 600 meters did you take? Its amazing you got to shoot someone at 600 meters with the majority of snipers reporting most of there shots are taken under 400 yards, and the infantry having nearly every round fired at targets under 300....
To answer questions: We only get about 1/16th of what really happens in a war zone on reports and news. I fired 9 rounds had ACOG 4x BDC and I’m a law enforcement sniper.(Squeeze the trigger, LOL) I've seen someone shot up close with this round and they dropped like a sack of sh**.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
9MM wasn't part of the question. Magazines full of any Milsurp 5.56 ammo that goes bang every time and hits the target will get my nod. We are talking soft skinned two legged critters here not bull elephants. Reliability is the key not the little extra weight/energy/expansion a quality bullet will get you. Cost and reliability in your gun are the key factors you have to consider.
I dont disagree, I actually agree with you. I don't have "fancy" ammo for my AR . it's all 55gr and very few 62 gr "penetrator" rounds.
 

·
Ooh, pancakes!
Joined
·
3,046 Posts
The big lack of consistency in this argument is always funny.

No one would argue carrying FMJ for their defensive pisitols, yet they think it's the best round for self defense in an AR-15.. Although, they would almost always tell you NOT to hunt with one because it won't get a quick "humane" kill. Go fig on that one....
People don't recommend FMJ for pistols because they do not travel 3000fps, yaw sideways and explosively fragment in tissue inside 150 yards. M193 does exactly that. No inconsistency here, just an understanding of the difference between a pistol and a rifle.

Nobody said FMJ was the "best round for self-defense in an AR-15". However, for SHTF FMJ is absolutely the best *compromise*. Recommending people to stock of on 69gr TAP or 77gr SMK rounds might work well for the jet set, but most people of normal means cannot stock more than a few hundred of these boutique rounds.

If you are stocking up for a major event, FMJ is your best bet. You can store thousands of round economically, and if you do your part they will do theirs.

Since people have short memories, here's a couple of pics of wounds created by the "weak" 5.56mm FMJ round [WARNING: GORE]:










 
21 - 40 of 74 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top