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Long Trump
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just in headline on CNN - 'Very close' to a debt deal, Senate's top Republican tells CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/31/debt.talks/

Why am I for kicking the can down the road??? I have come to the conclusion we WILL have an economic collapse. In that case, kicking it down the road gives you, me, those just getting on board, more time to get your "affairs" in order. I'm probably already 95% there, but any additional time to what is coming I'd welcome if only for people who are just starting to wake up and get on board.

It will come. A little more time won't hurt a thing considering this either can't be fixed, or, AS I FEAR, some of our high ranking people in government don't want it fixed.

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''A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.''
- George Washington
 

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Gitter Done!
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2,864 Posts
I agree. Let it fall apart. Declare the Federal Reserve private bank cartel null and void and start over with a Federally Owned Bank that its dollar is backed by precious metals cent for cent.

Then, when the Government wants to over extend itself it can't unless more gold is put into the reserves to cover each cent before it is spent. We are not allowed to just print money and claim it has value with no backing, the Federal Reserve should not be able to either. That is called FRAUD in the Law books.

Those in the private bank called the Federal Reserve all should be doing jail time.

Anything calculated to deceive, whether by a single act or combination, or by suppression of truth, or suggestion of what is false whether it be direct falsehood or innuendo, by speech or silence, word of mouth, or look or gesture.
Delahanty v. First National Bank, NA, 318 Pa. Super. 90, 464 A.2d 1243,1251

"...includes all surprise, trick, cunning, dissembling, and any unfair way by which another is cheated."
Johnson v. McDonald, 170 Okl. 117, 39 P.2d 150
 

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Long Trump
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4,448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you or I had this financial mess, with the amount of wasteful spending going on, and the kind of income coming in every month that our government has. . . we could make the necessary & painful adjustments to avoid going bankrupt.

It would take years to pull off, but every year we would be on firmer economic ground heading to financial solvency & survival.

Right now I'd eliminate a bunch of wasteful government departments, the Dept of Education comes to mind. Pass a flat tax and eliminate a terrorist organization, the IRS. Do away with the DEA, look at all the good they've done lately. Cut, cut, cut, cut . . some say that will destroy the economy pushing government workers to the street. Problem is the term "workers" - all they do is perpetuate the non producing system wasting our tax money.

I agree with kyle1337 from his posting, http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=182241 ::

"But, my question is...how hard, honestly, can it be to cut government spending, I don't understand? You slash military by 1/4 bring the troops home, give tax incentives to businesses that hire in the US, and tax increases to those that go overseas. Legalize mary jane, tax it up the yin yang, drill Alaska. And wouldn't you know it, most of our problems will disappear!!!!! and everyone will be in a better mood....lol."

The problem is, the government is in a state of trying to preserve itself at our expense, and I don't see them cutting anything.

Ok, you say that they won't be preserving themselves if it all comes crashing down. Not so - they'd declare a state of emergency, declare martial law, the president will issue EOs, and the government now has total control & you have no rights . . . they can do what they please. The Constitution, well it was good while it lasted.
 

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I hope it takes as long as possible. I enjoy the things many people take for granted like A/C, hot water, and constant electricity flowing to my house. I believe the politicians can drag this out for a long time, probably a few more years. I also don't believe we will see a collapse until foreign governments decide they are done investing in the US and cash in. Athough our credit rating may drop I don't expect this the be the big one.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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I don't see how we get out of this. Frankly, I'm for default; let's get it over with.

On the other hand, a bit longer will give people time to prep.
 

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I agree it's nice that they didn't choose now to collapse everything, because I'm simply not ready. I figure that we have 6 months to a year left, which should be plenty of time for all of us here to get ready.
 

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Blessed
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648 Posts
I agree it's nice that they didn't choose now to collapse everything, because I'm simply not ready. I figure that we have 6 months to a year left, which should be plenty of time for all of us here to get ready.
I agree with you and simply hope we have that long. It will take me at least that to get out of debt. Once my car is paid off all the other bills will disappear quicker.

Right now most of my extra money goes into preps. Hubby thinks we have 4 months of food stored, I think we have 6 so it will also give me more time to shore it up.

Suzanne
 

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I find the fact that raising the debt more than 2 trillion will only kick the can down the road about 2 years shocking.

Look how fast it has grown in 10 years:

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

Our current debt stands at about 14,300,000,000,000.00
after they raise the debt ceiling we will quickly hit 17,000,000,000,000

In our country of 300 million every man woman and child would have to pay
$57,000.00 to pay off a debt of 17 trillion.

:eek:
 

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I agree with you and simply hope we have that long. It will take me at least that to get out of debt. Once my car is paid off all the other bills will disappear quicker.

Right now most of my extra money goes into preps. Hubby thinks we have 4 months of food stored, I think we have 6 so it will also give me more time to shore it up.

Suzanne
I disagree with your position on getting out of debt. I have mentioned this several times on this board and elsewhere and have not received a very good rebuttal ever.

With a collapse and in particular, hyperinflation, debt is a good thing for you. As the money supply goes worthless, you can pay off debt for next to nothing. For example, tomorrow a cup of coffee might cost one million dollars, so you can just skip it and pay all your debts instead.

Now I have heard three responses attempting to counter this. First is that maybe a collapse will never occur or won't be able to time it right. I suppose we each have to decide for ourselves as to when (or if ever) the collapse will occur. Those back in 2000 or 2008 that expected the collapse to occur then were probably hurt hard by any debt they max'd out.

Second, was the idea that the banksters and other crooks we owe money to will recoup it's value through any means possible. For example, a new government law moving loans from the bad currency into a new one. Even if this happen though, there will still be a window where we can use the collapse to our advantage.

Last is the whole problem of inflation, that our jobs aren't going to start paying us million dollar salaries until they absolutely have to. I think the way around this is silver and gold. These hard assets aren't attached to our salaries and as things worsen, then we use them to get out of debt (or simply buy food).

I'm not trying to give financial advice, but I frankly see no benefit to getting out of debt at this point. You might argue that it's a moral victory, because you're no longer playing their game, but this is finally the part of the game that we start to gain an advantage and people want to quit. The time to quite was 20 years, not now. Interest rates are really low and hyperinflation may just be around the corner.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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WRT to kicking the can down the road: Looks like you got your wish.

Prepare for QE3.
 
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I sell US Military MRE's
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I'm glad that there is finally a serious discussion on this issue and not just business as usual. We won't go into default.... that is BS. Our credit rating is and was going to be lowered REGARDLESS. That will hurt the dollar but it is better than being put into a position like Greece.
 

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You're going to get your wish. They won't "kick" the can down the road. They will pick it up and run it down. Thereby giving the appearance of addressing the issue while only making it worse. They figure if we are foolish enough to vote for them were foolish enough to think they'll actually do something hard.
 

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301 Posts
Our opinion really doesn't matter. What matters is the professional ratings agencies like Moody's are saying nobody's plan goes far enough to reduce federal debt over time. We are officially on par with crackheads pawning stolen CD players.
 

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I find the fact that raising the debt more than 2 trillion will only kick the can down the road about 2 years shocking.

Look how fast it has grown in 10 years:

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

Our current debt stands at about 14,300,000,000,000.00
after they raise the debt ceiling we will quickly hit 17,000,000,000,000

In our country of 300 million every man woman and child would have to pay
$57,000.00 to pay off a debt of 17 trillion.

:eek:
The fallacy is that every man, woman and child pay taxes. A minority of Americans pay taxes. If you're 65 or younger and you're reading this and don't pay taxes, my request is that you get off your butt and do something productive. The majority get a complete free ride. Right now, a taxpayer's portion of the national debt is about $130,000.

This reveals the insanity of Washington and the truth that too few Americans are productive:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
 

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Closed for the Season.
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The fallacy is that every man, woman and child pay taxes. A minority of Americans pay taxes. If you're 65 or younger and you're reading this and don't pay taxes, my request is that you get off your butt and do something productive. The majority get a complete free ride. Right now, a taxpayer's portion of the national debt is about $130,000.

This reveals the insanity of Washington and the truth that too few Americans are productive:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
I do not pay income taxes. I do not make enough income to do so. If someone is willing to pay me enough income, I will be happy to contribute. Your statement about being productive is a insult to everyone working their butt off and not making a great salary.
 

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Prepared Gourmet
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I know there are people who cannot 'pay taxes' per se (some of them for permanent reasons, others for temporary - one hopes - reasons). My objection is when those people, rather than being taken to just zero taxes, receive monies beyond the zero mark. I think everyone should pay something and no one should be given money that isn't theirs. It is fine to try to reduce one's taxes given that the government is spending our dollars so frivolously (i.e. not responsibly) but to 'transfer wealth' by paying people to take from others is wrong imho.

If everyone paid a tiny bit, even $10 a year, just a little bit more than zero, I believe they may begin to have more interest in taking the time/effort to understand what government does with our money and where we are headed. This is not punishment - it is to encourage people to be more involved and knowledgeable. Under that kind of system, I would then have no problem with those paying taxes of any amount voting - but right now it just angers me when more and more people are taking from those of us who do pay taxes but they can outvote us at the polls. Will those who live off the rest of us really care about where that money comes from and vote to fix government programs that have made them dependent - unlikely. Just breeds election corruption as most of us here are well aware.
 

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I know there are people who cannot 'pay taxes' per se (some of them for permanent reasons, others for temporary - one hopes - reasons). My objection is when those people, rather than being taken to just zero taxes, receive monies beyond the zero mark. I think everyone should pay something and no one should be given money that isn't theirs. It is fine to try to reduce one's taxes given that the government is spending our dollars so frivolously (i.e. not responsibly) but to 'transfer wealth' by paying people to take from others is wrong imho.

If everyone paid a tiny bit, even $10 a year, just a little bit more than zero, I believe they may begin to have more interest in taking the time/effort to understand what government does with our money and where we are headed. This is not punishment - it is to encourage people to be more involved and knowledgeable. Under that kind of system, I would then have no problem with those paying taxes of any amount voting - but right now it just angers me when more and more people are taking from those of us who do pay taxes but they can outvote us at the polls. Will those who live off the rest of us really care about where that money comes from and vote to fix government programs that have made them dependent - unlikely. Just breeds election corruption as most of us here are well aware.
Every socialist economy crashes when the people figure out they can vote themselves free stuff on the backs of others just by making sure the "right" people are put into office.
 

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I do not pay income taxes. I do not make enough income to do so. If someone is willing to pay me enough income, I will be happy to contribute. Your statement about being productive is a insult to everyone working their butt off and not making a great salary.

The world doesn't owe you a high salary. But, you do owe your fellow citizens an attempt to pull your own weight. Right now I'm carrying you and several more citizens like you. Learn a skill that has some value and someone may be willing to pay you more. Ever consider that as a concept?
 

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The world doesn't owe you a high salary. But, you do owe your fellow citizens an attempt to pull your own weight. Right now I'm carrying you and several more citizens like you. Learn a skill that has some value and someone may be willing to pay you more. Ever consider that as a concept?
That is total BS. I get no help from the Government at all. I pay fuel taxes excise taxes and My states sale taxes and property taxes.

I have no debts and money in the bank.

Go off yourself dude.! :mad:

Its idiots like you that the World is so screwed up. You might consider some people do not get benefits.
 
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