[caveman8541]

Well that was my point ( i only used donkeys and horses to simplify ) Though they are related but they are to mutated /evolved in different dirrections to make a fertile offspring

And as we know nature has built in some kind of failsafe mechanism that wont allow spieces with to big differences to have fertile offsprings

I like to think there is a little Neanderthal in all of us. :

 

[Tankspridd]

I like to think there is a little Neanderthal in all of us. :

I do belive cavemens had more fun

 

[caveman8541]

Info from article on this article:http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG77jb3.../**http://www.ucsf.edu/science-cafe/articles/neanderthal-dna-and-modern-humans/



‘No One’s Mother Was a Neanderthal’
Thanks to the Human Genome Project and to research conducted in its wake, there is an expanding database of human genomes and a growing record of genes known to vary from person to person.

But there have been great technical challenges in sorting out and mapping what’s left of Neanderthal DNA in ancient bone. The first Neanderthal DNA was extracted from bone in 1997. Most of the DNA in Neanderthal bone samples comes from contaminating bacteria and ancient decay, but the hominid DNA can be sorted out using modern laboratory techniques.

The majority of our DNA resides on 23 pairs of chromosomes inside the nucleus of every living cell. This DNA is inherited from both parents. But initial studies of Neanderthal DNA instead focused on the small percentage of DNA that resides in compartments within cells called mitochondria. Mitochondrial DNA tracks only maternal inheritance.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from female to offspring through the egg. The DNA has evolved quickly and there are many copies of it in each cell, making it easier to study.

In July the Svante lab reported Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA studies from five individuals in the journal Science. The researchers observed limited DNA diversity. This indicated that the Neanderthal population in Europe was small, and may have included fewer than 3,400 females, they reported.

The mitochondrial DNA of thousands of living humans already has been examined. The Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA examined to date is distinctly different from that of humans, Green says. No mitochondrial DNA sequences from Neanderthals have been encountered in modern humans.” This makes it less likely that there was some genetic interchange with Neandertals,” Green says. “No one’s mother was a Neandertal.”


Caveman's Hypothesis....Neanderthal Chicks were very UGLY.

 

[Valkyrie144]

Flex....I've read that if you go back far enough on the tree of evolution..both Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon evolved from the same ancient ancestor.

Neanderthal was in Europe far before we entered. And then, after we came into Europe with our advanced skills...tools, hunting, weapons...they soon died out.

That both Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon have their origins in Africa.

Every human today has traces of African origin in their DNA.

 

[Tankspridd]

Info from article on this article:http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG77jb3.../**http://www.ucsf.edu/science-cafe/articles/neanderthal-dna-and-modern-humans/



‘No One’s Mother Was a Neanderthal’
Thanks to the Human Genome Project and to research conducted in its wake, there is an expanding database of human genomes and a growing record of genes known to vary from person to person.

But there have been great technical challenges in sorting out and mapping what’s left of Neanderthal DNA in ancient bone. The first Neanderthal DNA was extracted from bone in 1997. Most of the DNA in Neanderthal bone samples comes from contaminating bacteria and ancient decay, but the hominid DNA can be sorted out using modern laboratory techniques.

The majority of our DNA resides on 23 pairs of chromosomes inside the nucleus of every living cell. This DNA is inherited from both parents. But initial studies of Neanderthal DNA instead focused on the small percentage of DNA that resides in compartments within cells called mitochondria. Mitochondrial DNA tracks only maternal inheritance.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from female to offspring through the egg. The DNA has evolved quickly and there are many copies of it in each cell, making it easier to study.

In July the Svante lab reported Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA studies from five individuals in the journal Science. The researchers observed limited DNA diversity. This indicated that the Neanderthal population in Europe was small, and may have included fewer than 3,400 females, they reported.

The mitochondrial DNA of thousands of living humans already has been examined. The Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA examined to date is distinctly different from that of humans, Green says. No mitochondrial DNA sequences from Neanderthals have been encountered in modern humans.” This makes it less likely that there was some genetic interchange with Neandertals,” Green says. “No one’s mother was a Neandertal.”


Caveman's Hypothesis....Neanderthal Chicks were very UGLY.

Well if we take other things in the equation it was not until man learned farming the population could grow and before that we lived of what we could find for the day ...... Berries during season and meat when we had a god hunt

 

[Valkyrie144]

Neanderthals also had a very meaty diet. Whereas we eat a lot of different things, could possibly explain another reason why we thrived and they didnt

 

[Cannon Fodder]

Flex....I've read that if you go back far enough on the tree of evolution..both Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon evolved from the same ancient ancestor.

Neanderthal was in Europe far before we entered. And then, after we came into Europe with our advanced skills...tools, hunting, weapons...they soon died out.

But they were every bit as "advanced" as Cro Magnon. Same weapons, jewelry, even religious rituals at burial. I think they were feared, perhaps shunned. Perhaps thought of as savages, the same way that the British felt about Sub-Saharan Africans. But they were certainly both human, and capable of reproducing if they wanted to.

 

[Tankspridd]

Well there is many things that led to their fall

I firmly belive that the knowledge of farming was what made the difference

 

[.21646]

Well there is many things that led to their fall

I firmly belive that the knowledge of farming was what made the difference

Farming came much, much later than what we're talking about.

I really do believe there was some interbreeding. We get the language gene from Neanderthals, but physically we are more similar to Cro-Magnon. By we I mean Europeans, who have like, 1-4% in common with Neanderthals. I really can't overlook those two facts and say we, as a species, came from one or the other. The reason why we haven't found any "hybrids" is because, well, it's a miracle we're finding anything at all. Eventually we will, I'm sure of it but right now we're dealing with very few actual finds. There aren't many complete skeletons, so all of this testing and theorizing is done with little information. That being said, there's a better chance you'll dig and find a dinosaur than an early ancestor of modern humans. In fact, estimates for Neanderthal populations are ridiculously low compared to other creatures. If they were alive, the IUCN would classify them as "Critically Endangered." So it's no wonder we can't find any hard evidence, it's far and few in between and we've got to work hard to get it.

Though, if we had a time machine, we could solve this debate right now. :O

 

[Tankspridd]

Farming came much, much later than what we're talking about.

I really do believe there was some interbreeding. We get the language gene from Neanderthals, but physically we are more similar to Cro-Magnon. By we I mean Europeans, who have like, 1-4% in common with Neanderthals. I really can't overlook those two facts and say we, as a species, came from one or the other. The reason why we haven't found any "hybrids" is because, well, it's a miracle we're finding anything at all. Eventually we will, I'm sure of it but right now we're dealing with very few actual finds. There aren't many complete skeletons, so all of this testing and theorizing is done with little information. That being said, there's a better chance you'll dig and find a dinosaur than an early ancestor of modern humans. In fact, estimates for Neanderthal populations are ridiculously low compared to other creatures. If they were alive, the IUCN would classify them as "Critically Endangered." So it's no wonder we can't find any hard evidence, it's far and few in between and we've got to work hard to get it.



Though, if we had a time machine, we could solve this debate right now. :O

I dont mean farming in modern way//or if should call it farming ? ( but the abilty to harvest eatable plants and fruits and the means to do something with it ) And yes cro magnons are belived to be the first with this ( But the scale of it i dont know ) Though most of what we diskuss is guesses or theories only

 

[.21646]

I dont mean farming in modern way//or if should call it farming ? ( but the abilty to harvest eatable plants and fruits and the means to do something with it ) And yes cro magnons are belived to be the first with this ( But the scale of it i dont know ) Though most of what we diskuss is guesses or theories only

That's gathering, and there is some minor evidence that Neanderthals did that. I suppose if they suddenly had the munchies they'd eat some berries, but they certainly loved their steak.

 

[Siddanczak]

Found this info at http://discovermagazine.com/1999/aug/featneander

Hello - "Clan of the Cave Bear" ring a bell? A 25000 year old corpse caused a debate about the breeding of the two. And there is also evidence out there that neanderthals were sometimes food for the cro-magnons . Fun subject.

 

[.21646]

Hello - "Clan of the Cave Bear" ring a bell? A 25000 year old corpse caused a debate about the breeding of the two. And there is also evidence out there that neanderthals were sometimes food for the cro-magnons . Fun subject.

I was TRYING not to reference those books. I do love that series, though, I only got to the second book. Need to finish up and read them all.

 

[kenxkillz]

Probably killed them.

I wouldnt want someone bigger and stronger than me running around in a pack by where i lived, I think our ancestors thought the same.

 

[Crackshot]

It is my personal belief that the 2 species interbred. I wont say more than that as my personal views are somewhat contoversial LOL.

 

[deep woods]

A few years ago I got interested in the blood (Rh factor) where a man and a woman can have one child and no more, because the embryo is treated as a foreign object and rejected. This is because one person is Rh negative and one is Rh positive. Rh stands for Rheus monkey. The highest population segment that is Rh neg are the Basque people from the mountains of Spain, if I remember right.

I bring this up because this thread is very interesting, if there is any connection between species this might be a link. I have not followed the Rh factor for quite some time, please correct me if wrong on anything. Interesting subject for someone who is interested in human history.

 

[NYKRINDFW]

Mental Note:

Valkyrie144 does not find hairy chested men attractive.


NY

 

[SheWolf]

Neanderthal Fan ...

anyway, my original questions were..is it possible that Cro-Magnon were responsible for the downfall of Neanderthal through force and the other question was,...what would it have been like to live alongside something so very similar to us..yet so different?

I think it was the Cro-magnons fear that was responsible for the fall of the Neanderthal.

However, who is to say that they are extinct. Of Course the Cro-magnon men took a few Neanderthal women. I am sure Quite a few babies were born, and I am sure quite a few reproduced more. Eventually, there is a new breed. and they will start to take on more human 'like' traits., becoming *more* intelligent.

Who is to say all humans are the same breed.....

Cro-magnons are intelligent
Neanderthals posses massive strength

At this point it cant be disproved

It is fun to think about anyway, but I can swear I know some people up the Mountain with some Neanderthal blood in them somewhere. Biggest headed people I have ever seen. They cant read and they cant spell, but they sure can cut down some trees and hunt some deer like its nobodies business... And they have a Bon fire in their yard every night. Come to think of it, they hunt anything that runs through them woods. Ie, coons..bunnies..squirell, even turtle.

Neat folk, I never know what they are saying, but they are always laughing, so i laugh too. Good Times!

 

[Vanishing Nomad]

My latest foray into the study of Neanderthals taught me that they were every bit as intelligent as us, and maybe more so as they actually had more advanced tools than we did 50,000 years ago or so.

One of the current theories is that they had less developed vocal cords, and thus were not able to communicate to the level we can. This is evidenced by the fact that they had highly advanced musical instruments, and even string instruments, where we barely had anything along those lines.

Some lines of thinking are based around the theory that we were not smarter, just much better communicators and had a greater ability to work as teams because of it.

I was also reading that recent research shows that Northern Europeans have as much a 4% Neanderthal DNA, proving that inter breeds was possible and did occur.

Also, i don't think uglyness would have been an issue. Here is a link to a picture of a forensically reconstructed Neanderthal skull

http://www.hartleyfamily.org.uk/neanderthal.jpg

Tell you wouldn't tap that?

 

[Crackshot]

I think it was the Cro-magnons fear that was responsible for the fall of the Neanderthal.

However, who is to say that they are extinct. Of Course the Cro-magnon men took a few Neanderthal women. I am sure Quite a few babies were born, and I am sure quite a few reproduced more. Eventually, there is a new breed. and they will start to take on more human 'like' traits., becoming *more* intelligent.

Who is to say all humans are the same breed.....

Cro-magnons are intelligent
Neanderthals posses massive strength

At this point it cant be disproved

It is fun to think about anyway, but I can swear I know some people up the Mountain with some Neanderthal blood in them somewhere. Biggest headed people I have ever seen. They cant read and they cant spell, but they sure can cut down some trees and hunt some deer like its nobodies business... And they have a Bon fire in their yard every night. Come to think of it, they hunt anything that runs through them woods. Ie, coons..bunnies..squirell, even turtle.

Neat folk, I never know what they are saying, but they are always laughing, so i laugh too. Good Times!

Neaderthal had a larger brain than cromagnon. Prehaps it has something to do with higher intellect than other specises