[phoenixx]

We are set to break ground on our 12.5 acre BOL that will become our primary home in North Texas in spring 2012.

What I envision is a 2 story concrete home with a basement. The only access to the basement would be under a staircase that has a remote hydraulic system that lifts the staircase (think "adams family") and a hidden emergency escape somewhere close to the rear of the home in case of fire, flood, tornado, etc...

That much I know can be done, but how hard would it be to find a general contractor that could build the home (and have the ethics to do the following):

• Build a slab facade so that it appeared to be only a 2 story home with no basement.
• Make the fake slab appear that the water, electrical, etc coming from it would appear as any conventional slab with no basement.
• Certify the plans so that the county commission would have no way of knowing about the basement.
• Do it all so that it could fool the inspector during the building process.

We have the funds. We have the solution. We can even find a crew that is willing to travel to our location and stay during the build on a per diem basis. What we are wondering is can we find a GC with the skills and who is willing to dummy up the plans and the construction to fool the planning commission.

Any construction experienced answers would be greatly appreciated, but all ideas are more than welcome.

 

[willow]

A couple of things come to mind.

1. City/county inspections will have to be done on site. That is probably where you will have problems.

2. Are you sure you can build a basement at your location? Alot of Texas is not suited for basements. High water tables and clay soil, etc.

3. Can you be your own GC?

 

[9111315]

You have to break up the jobs so that each job is small enough that the others don't know what is going on.

Lay out your foundation for a slab. Layout the forms. Call for an inspection.
You may have to run the water pipes and such unless you can design all with plumbing above ground.

Rip out the forms and hire a guy to dig the basement and another to lay the blocks or better reinforced concrete. Give the mason the fake plans. The plans must result in something that looks like a slab and stub foundation. Plan on pouring over the area for the staircase and break it out later.

You will need to find and engineer who will design a basement with a slab ceiling so you know what type of support will be required when you do the above. Use a false name and pay cash.

Don't let the mason keep any plans.

Switch out all the plans back to the originals that call for a slab foundation. Call the inspector to look at the poured slab. How will he know that it is hollow?

Once the house is built, break out the hole for the staircase.

I would not go with a moving staircase. Too many moving parts. Use a hidden door. You will also want some type of hardened door. Do that at the bottom of the stairs.

 

[SamboRoberts]

Bear in mind that it's probably not such a good idea to use a basement to escape flood waters.

 

[TRM]

[EDIT] - Going to insert a disclaimer here. I'm in Vegas. You're not. The construction standards may vary, and I can only talk about my personal & professional experience, which may not pertain to you, so you'll want to verify that the construction means and methods are comparable.

My personal opinion as a contractor - if you find a GC to do this, you have to be very leery. If they're willing to do all that, they're probably willing to take your money and walk off the job. At that point, what do you do? File a complaint and admit all that you're doing in front of open court?

If you found a contractor who was a survivalist, then maybe they'd be willing to take the risk and help you, but they're going to charge out the rear for it because of the risks they'd be taking.

On to specifics:

You would essentially have to build the foundation twice. First, you'd have to put in your underground utilities, grade & form your slab with all of the reinforcement (mild rebar & PT cables). Then, once it passes inspection (check with your building department if you need a special structural inspection, which is usually handled by an outside engineer), you'd rip it all out, dig like mad, form / pour your footings, stack your block, then form your deck, reinforce it, then pour it, and hope to hell that the inspector doesn't decide to make a "surprise" inspection. If you burned as fast as you could on that, maybe three weeks of an inspector happening on your job and able to see what you're really doing.

Don't even ask an engineer if they would design this, it violates about a bajillion ethics rules that could cost them their license, and there is no way that they would jeopardize their license for you. Maybe for Caesars or MGM or some other major corporation that gave them tens of millions each year in contracts, but not for you.

So when you pour your suspended slab, you now have no way to remove the forms underneath, so you'll have to buy those, and you'll have to set up your reinforcement so that you leave a block-out (an area where the reinforcement doesn't run) so you can chip it out later.

If a special inspection is required, they will see what you're doing in about 3 seconds, write up a Notice of Non-Compliance, run off of the job and fax it in to the building department, if they don't call the building inspector as they're driving off the jobsite. That's because the special inspector MUST be onsite during the concrete pour. You may just pour it anyway and get NNC, at which point the building department will red tag your job and force you to go back and perform core drills (removing sections of the concrete for strength testing) under the supervision of the building inspector and the special inspector, which will show that you've essentially poured a suspended slab.

If you make it to this point, you're almost home free. All you have to do is make sure that any excavations around your home, like to hook up the sewer or water, don't expose your basement walls, because if an inspector sees that, they're going to start asking questions.

Basically, I wouldn't recommend it. You're depending on too many people to keep quiet and to skirt ethics rules or outright violate the law.

If you asked me to do it, I'd run the other direction from you. Frankly, I'd be scared to death that you were a trap set by the building department and the DA to shut me down for doing non-permitted work. Don't laugh, I've seen that sting done a lot of times in the Vegas area.

 

[TRM]

Switch out all the plans back to the originals that call for a slab foundation. Call the inspector to look at the poured slab. How will he know that it is hollow?

If it's slab on grade construction - the reinforcement, thickness, and plywood on the underside of the slab. It's not like you can have a 5" suspended slab - it's going to be a lot thicker with a lot more reinforcement.

If you get a dumb building inspector, maybe. If you get a smart one, they're figure out what's going on.

 

[TRM]

How about this instead?

Design the building with deep concrete foundations - 11 feet deep below the finish floor elevation (your ground floor).

Overengineer the entire slab so that it rests on the foundations even with no dirt support.

Make sure you excavate the area of your "super secret" basement and replace it with Styrofoam block. I kid you not - I built a freeway on Styrofoam block in Salt Lake City near the downtown area due to settlement issues and time constraints. Just get a letter from your engineer that this is to negate future subsidence issues by removing extra weight in dirt for a zero net load gain.

Design in a blockout in the reinforcing. If the building department objects, overengineer the slab reinforcement and put in a couple of "extra" rebar hoops and maybe an extra couple of PT cables in each direction so that if you do "accidentally" damage them, structural integrity is maintained.

Once the building is completed, if you decide to dig a hole through your foundation for a root cellar, who's going to object to that? And Styrofoam is much easier to remove (though it costs as much, if not more, than concrete) than dirt.

Not that I would advocate such a course of action. Ever.

 

[MattB4]

We are set to break ground on our 12.5 acre BOL that will become our primary home in North Texas in spring 2012.

...

Congratulations on your project. My question is why bother hiding the Basement from the County? So long as your structure meets the local and state codes (Boy am I glad I live in a area that has no building permits required) I am sure that no one will really care what your design is. Nor will they show up to be saved in a Disaster because knowing of it.

The people you would want to not know about it are your neighbors. For that you might wish to screen off the building site from casual viewers. Also do not get into long winded discussions of why you are building the way you are. Simply have people work to a plan. After a few years no one is going to recall much about your place. They have other things to occupy their minds.

 

[dw60]

Build it in plain sight. Call it a 'DEN' for the kids or room for the nanny. design the entrance so it can be hidden or rerouted through a closet. No one will think about it during construction. Don't talk about it or say you are a prepper. Finish it out with plumbing, electrical, HVAC. Then when the house is done, inspected and you have moved in, move in all your preps and hide the entrance. I like the idea of covering the entrance like it was a solid wall, then have designed a room next to it with a closet in that area. Reroute entrance through the back of the closet.

 

[Jerry D Young]

Your last two hopes will not be realized. No good GC will do those things.

I think it better to do everything aboveboard, and just not let it out that you are a prepper.

If you want to continue, and not have the basement on the plans, put in the basement on your own, (pick one you like from various house plans) with enough columns and poured reinforced ceiling deep enough to have 5' or more earth cover that will support a house above it. Quickly, on the sly, with outside workmen.

Then build the house on slab, just like the plans say. Later, cut through the floor of the house, dig down to the basement hatch or door you put in when installing the basement.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[nomadjanet]

We are set to break ground on our 12.5 acre BOL that will become our primary home in North Texas in spring 2012.

What I envision is a 2 story concrete home with a basement. The only access to the basement would be under a staircase that has a remote hydraulic system that lifts the staircase (think "adams family") and a hidden emergency escape somewhere close to the rear of the home in case of fire, flood, tornado, etc...

That much I know can be done, but how hard would it be to find a general contractor that could build the home (and have the ethics to do the following):

• Build a slab facade so that it appeared to be only a 2 story home with no basement.
• Make the fake slab appear that the water, electrical, etc coming from it would appear as any conventional slab with no basement.
• Certify the plans so that the county commission would have no way of knowing about the basement.
• Do it all so that it could fool the inspector during the building process.

We have the funds. We have the solution. We can even find a crew that is willing to travel to our location and stay during the build on a per diem basis. What we are wondering is can we find a GC with the skills and who is willing to dummy up the plans and the construction to fool the planning commission.

Any construction experienced answers would be greatly appreciated, but all ideas are more than welcome.

and have the ethics to do the following):
[*]Certify the plans so that the county commission would have no way of knowing about the basement.
[*]Do it all so that it could fool the inspector during the building process.
[/LIST]
I guess I am missing something but you think it would be ethical for a person to lie and cheat the system about something that is his profession?
I think what Jerry said is spot on, if you want to do something against code do it yourself. Any contractor who would risk his license with the city county or state to do work not on the permit or not according to code is not very bright. Just my opinion. If you get caught you get a slap on the wrist & a little fine if he gets caught he could lose his livelyhood.

 

[alergyfree]

Maybe get some professional help about deep seated fear, paranoia.... then build to local codes your dream house exactly the way you want it and enjoy it.

 

[Grandad Prepper]

I doubt anyone would question a basement in North Texas because of the threat of tornadoes. Just say it's a tornado shelter and build away..... GP

 

[voyuer1]

If you're really that paranoid about building a basement, after construction you can have block wall put up in the basement to make it look like a partial basement. It's pretty much a pipe dream trying to hide a whole room from the city/county. Besides if you hide that room that could be property tax evasion.

 

[Absolutely!]

We are set to break ground on our 12.5 acre BOL that will become our primary home in North Texas in spring 2012.

What I envision is a 2 story concrete home with a basement. The only access to the basement would be under a staircase that has a remote hydraulic system that lifts the staircase (think "adams family") and a hidden emergency escape somewhere close to the rear of the home in case of fire, flood, tornado, etc...

That much I know can be done, but how hard would it be to find a general contractor that could build the home (and have the ethics to do the following):

• Build a slab facade so that it appeared to be only a 2 story home with no basement.
• Make the fake slab appear that the water, electrical, etc coming from it would appear as any conventional slab with no basement.
• Certify the plans so that the county commission would have no way of knowing about the basement.
• Do it all so that it could fool the inspector during the building process.

We have the funds. We have the solution. We can even find a crew that is willing to travel to our location and stay during the build on a per diem basis. What we are wondering is can we find a GC with the skills and who is willing to dummy up the plans and the construction to fool the planning commission.

Any construction experienced answers would be greatly appreciated, but all ideas are more than welcome.

1. no.

2. no.

3. You're asking someone to put his entire career on the line. You've got to be kidding!

Why don't you build a concrete slab house, and a few yards away (actually you have to measure out from your house I think 1 metre and then down on a 45 degree angle away from the house to where it is safe to dig so that the house doesn't bear weight on any side walls of it) build an underground cellar yourself? You have the room for it. After your house is complete, build an extra little shed/room on the back, ostensibly for storage perhaps, with a rug on the floor glued to a trapdoor which you can then dig out to lead to your underground bunker. Or perhaps after you have completed your home you can jackhammer out a little hole in your concrete pad and dig a tunnel. But read up on tunnel building, people regularly die in home-made tunnels.

If you don't make a safe dwelling, and it appears you are going to go to two storeys so it's going to have some fair loading on it, then it will all cave into your basement and you will all die.

It's all very well to have a builder say 'yeah I can do that' but they are NOT architects. K? Builders have brilliant ideas about how they know everything but at the end of the day they're not architects and they haven't spent five years at university learning about lateral forces and load bearings and what have you.

Just my tuppence worth of course.

 

[Tenfeathers]

In Texas the rules are not as strick in the county as it would be in the city limits.
You can find some good contarctors that will build it and keep their mouth shut.

I build blds on my property and don't even have to call an inspector.
Also I have a 850 sq ft underground BOL built by a contactor, and myself only three people know it's there.
I thought about illiminating the contractor to keep his mouth shut, but he's ok he's a survivalist too.<G>

 

[DADDYO]

Basements aren't red flag items so just build it and act normal. Only you know that its going to be a secret BOB.

Also if you can connect an underground tunnel running from the basement to a tree line or shrub line far from the home you would have my dream BOL home. I go back and forth from a single escape tunnel to a multi tunnels leading to bunker style hardened firing positions hidden around the estate.

My dream needs the lotto's help LOL?

 

[phoenixx]

Some really great input here. All greatly appreciated.

 

[nzbushbunny]

What about doing your basement area as a "Basement Garage" instead with Precast sides & Roof/1st floor floor, No Windows but with yr "Normal" Garage Doors & Staircase 2 1st flr. When signed off Remove Garage doors & Fill with Block work. If it can be set in2 a bank/hill & backfilled. Hope that helps

 

[Grumpy]

It all depends on what part of North Texas.

Up here around the Lake Texoma area, the ground moves too much for basements.
Even a slab foundation WILL heave and crack.

My house has settled 6" on the south end this year, and I'm on a 8"thick reinforced slab.

Frikkin' drought!