Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Hi All

I read One Second After, and recently replace a Peltier cooling block in a wine cooler, which got me thinking. This thing seems like a great way to cool insulin in a post EMP world where everything is fried.

They are small and cheap enough, if insulin is an actual concern for you, you could easily buy tons of them, build a power source to drive them, and then wrap them in multiple layers of aluminum/insulator to protect them from and EMP (if you even need to? thing is generally just a wire made out altering materials... Would that fry in an EMP?) Then dig a 4 foot hole and bury them if you want to.

The beauty I see, is that you could use a bunch of them to drive one of them to do meaningful work. You don't need to rely on solar panels, or even a battery (although that would help at night) And they have a very long MTBF (100,000 hours) and no moving parts to break.

Rig up, say 10-30 of them, in series, all to drive one. On the one side, run cool water, from whatever source you can, if nothing else, dig a big hole and pipe water to cool the water to the soil temp 3-4 feet down. (No the water wouldn't be pumped, but it would still dissipate heat.) Then on the other side, have plate steel (paint it black) and put it in a solar oven, then put the solar oven in a greenhouse. I would think this should be able to generate at least enough current to drive 1 effectively, maybe even a fan for the wine cooler heat sink?

Seems like a fun experiment, although I don't need insulin, and its minimal real refrigeration, although something would be better than nothing. Would be a fun experiment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
68,758 Posts
Those things are power hogs for what they give in return. There are small, hyper insulated fridges made specifically for keeping meds cool in hot climates with low power drain. Probably expensive, but a lot easier to feed over the long haul.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,141 Posts
i am sorry to say that those who require insulin to survive will likely be among the first to die in a prolonged SHTF situation. there are ways to reverse diabetes. intermittent fasting has proven to be very effective for some. i wish you luck.
 

·
Christian
Joined
·
39,500 Posts
i am sorry to say that those who require insulin to survive will likely be among the first to die in a prolonged SHTF situation. there are ways to reverse diabetes. intermittent fasting has proven to be very effective for some. i wish you luck.
speak for yourself.

we have 28 months of insulin prepped for my TYPE I daughter. and I have a location for the US manufacturer.

And BTW there is no cure for TYPE I.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,718 Posts
Look up the Medi-Fridge model MF-st4l. It's a 4 liter fridge made for medicine cooling. Unit works on either AC or DC. Factory set not to get below 37 degrees. They sell locks and mounting accessories extra, but the basic unit runs about $100. Not very expensive when you consider that's about the retail price of a couple boxes of test strips.


As for Type 1 diabetes, there has already been an experimental gene therapy for dogs with the condition that cured them in one injection. While dogs and people have different biology, that news should give Type 1 sufferers a bit of hope for the future.

For Type 2? Eat less, move more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,914 Posts
Neat idea.

As for the diabetes debate, I think the reality is that your stores can likely get you through most SHTF scenarios, but in a long term..let alone true TEOTWAWKI scenario...anyone completely dependent any form of medicinal for their very survival is going to die. In a true long term event there will be too many in need and not enough to go around. Knowing the location of the local manufacturer or distributor means one of three things:

1) You know where to find a stripped warehouse the looters got to a month before you did.

2) You know where to find the heavily armed camp of people selling it or limited access. If you are LUCKY they will be "authorities" and won't just shoot you as a potential looter.

3) You will find that when you lost power etc so did they and there is no good product stored or able to be made on the premises.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,141 Posts
speak for yourself.

we have 28 months of insulin prepped for my TYPE I daughter. and I have a location for the US manufacturer.

And BTW there is no cure for TYPE I.
fortunately i don't have diabetes. i hope the best for you and your daughter, but you are fooling yourself. those who are insulin depended are dead WTSHTF, if its a long term event. i am sorry. but to my fault i am a realist. i have loved ones who i care very much about in the same category. unfortunately facts are facts. how long did diabetics live in the 1800's? not long at all.....
 

·
Business Owner
Joined
·
3,239 Posts
I have played alot with Peltier-effect coolers and have found them to be very energy IN-efficient. I looked at several very expensive models that could actually cool to a temperature to keep foods safe to install in my work van, but decided after much research and calculations on the energy usage; to actually use a dorm-fridge with a regular 120volt compressor powered by an invertor with a very large auxiliary battery charged by the alternator and 6 solar panels. Been working like a champ for nearly 2 years now...
 

·
Christian
Joined
·
39,500 Posts
fortunately i don't have diabetes. i hope the best for you and your daughter, but you are fooling yourself. those who are insulin depended are dead WTSHTF, if its a long term event. i am sorry. but to my fault i am a realist. i have loved ones who i care very much about in the same category. unfortunately facts are facts. how long did diabetics live in the 1800's? not long at all.....
I am a realist as well, your wrong and this isnt the 1800's.

insulin usage was first applied in 1923, and was a derivative of cattle and horse pancreas. Insulin production is not a difficult process, deer pancreas will work just as well, actually any animal pancreas will work, even human.

those that received the insulin injections live normal lives.

I think you are way over steeping your assumed knowledge of the actual facts.

people may die in an EOTWAWKI situation but my daughter will not die from lack of insulin. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,914 Posts
I am a realist as well, your wrong and this isnt the 1800's.

insulin usage was first applied in 1923, and was a derivative of cattle and horse pancreas. Insulin production is not a difficult process, deer pancreas will work just as well, actually any animal pancreas will work, even human.

those that received the insulin injections live normal lives.

I think you are way over steeping your assumed knowledge of the actual facts.

people may die in an EOTWAWKI situation but my daughter will not die from lack of insulin. ;)
I am not trying to be a jerk, but the reality is this:

Do you know how to process it? Have you ever done so? Do you know how much insulin you get from one pancreas?

It is not like you hunt down a deer, chop up its pancreas, and feed it to your kid.

Can you properly select a pancreas to use (which animals are best, which are worst, are any totally incompatible?), identify if the organ is diseased, determine how long between harvesting the organ and harvesting the insulin that the organ remains viable for, isolate the clusters of tissue in which insulin is produced (only 3-5% of the organ is actually involved in production of insulin and glucagon and they are scattered throughout the organ), safely and surgically harvest it, take it to the lab set up you have (where you maintain a completely sterile environment somehow), test it for purity, purify it (the first treated human almost died from the treatment's impurities), how to make it release slower (a process not discovered until the late 30's and utilizing a component found in fish sperm) and the like?

Do you know the effects that certain chemical and radiological exposures have on the pancreatic tissues of certain animals that would be available for insulin processing?

Those processes (how it was done in the 20's when discovered) are SIMPLE compared to the way it is done now, with synthetic human variants and ones made using bacteria, gene sequencing, and combinations of about two dozen amino acids.

Knowing the basics of how it is done is not enough with medicinal treatments. You need to know how, have what you need to do so, and have done it many times before if this is the plan to keep someone alive.

BTW, I am not picking on diabetics; I am using this argument as an example of the facts for ANYONE on ANY kind of ESSENTIAL, LIFE MAINTAINING medication.

If you are prepping and have need of such a medication (no matter what it is), you need to find out how to make it, find an alternative to it you can grow or raise, find a treatment or a cure for it, or accept that anyone with such an ailment ultimately will not make it in a post-TEOTWAWKI world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: snowie

·
reluctant sinner
Joined
·
20,139 Posts
When I was on insulin (4 times a day) the short acting stuff required no refrigeration. The long acting Glargine needed to always be cool and you throw the opened bottle away every 28 days. I didn't mind the shots but just hated the dependency on power. I ask to try and get off the juice.

Metformin tried to kill me. Glipizide works well for me. I started with 1/2 a 10 mg twice a day. I worked with my diet and got the A1C down to 6.2 for a year. Added cinnamon to coffee, more diet control and exercise last A1C 5.5 on a 1/4 of a pill once a day.

Next goal 1/4 pill every other day, then none at all.

Look into a solar powered ice maker that runs on the absorption cycle.
 

·
Misidiotate
Joined
·
350 Posts
Hi All

I read One Second After, and recently replace a Peltier cooling block in a wine cooler, which got me thinking. This thing seems like a great way to cool insulin in a post EMP world where everything is fried.

They are small and cheap enough, if insulin is an actual concern for you, you could easily buy tons of them, build a power source to drive them, and then wrap them in multiple layers of aluminum/insulator to protect them from and EMP (if you even need to? thing is generally just a wire made out altering materials... Would that fry in an EMP?) Then dig a 4 foot hole and bury them if you want to.

The beauty I see, is that you could use a bunch of them to drive one of them to do meaningful work. You don't need to rely on solar panels, or even a battery (although that would help at night) And they have a very long MTBF (100,000 hours) and no moving parts to break.

Rig up, say 10-30 of them, in series, all to drive one. On the one side, run cool water, from whatever source you can, if nothing else, dig a big hole and pipe water to cool the water to the soil temp 3-4 feet down. (No the water wouldn't be pumped, but it would still dissipate heat.) Then on the other side, have plate steel (paint it black) and put it in a solar oven, then put the solar oven in a greenhouse. I would think this should be able to generate at least enough current to drive 1 effectively, maybe even a fan for the wine cooler heat sink?

Seems like a fun experiment, although I don't need insulin, and its minimal real refrigeration, although something would be better than nothing. Would be a fun experiment.

I did my bigger write up here:
http://coolprepperstuff.com/2013/06/02/thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-has-its-uses/

Any thoughts?
CoolPrepper, very nice idea. I bought 10 peltiers a couple of years ago when I was experimenting with liquid cooling in my PC.

IIRC, I cooled a processor putting out about 120 Watts by about 20 - 25 degrees C. The heat was dissipated by mounting a copper water block on the hot side of the peltier and pumping the hot water through a small radiator with a fan attached. Everything wired for 12V.

While they are energy inefficient, they could definitely be used to cool medicines (or even a beer or two).:thumb:

If the SHTF I would run it off car batteries being charged with a solar panel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
957 Posts
fortunately i don't have diabetes. i hope the best for you and your daughter, but you are fooling yourself. those who are insulin depended are dead WTSHTF, if its a long term event. i am sorry. but to my fault i am a realist. i have loved ones who i care very much about in the same category. unfortunately facts are facts. how long did diabetics live in the 1800's? not long at all.....
Well pal, we're all going to die at some point. As for your assumptions which you have stated about diabetes, your ingorance on the subject is quite clear. Being a realist and understanding facts as facts requires accurate knowledge of said situation.

With all due respect, your comments add nothing to the thread other than to anger some of us who have extensive experience in diabetes.
 

·
Christian
Joined
·
39,500 Posts
I am not trying to be a jerk,

BTW, I am not picking on diabetics; I am using this argument as an example of the facts for ANYONE on ANY kind of ESSENTIAL, LIFE MAINTAINING medication.

If you are prepping and have need of such a medication (no matter what it is), you need to find out how to make it, find an alternative to it you can grow or raise, find a treatment or a cure for it, or accept that anyone with such an ailment ultimately will not make it in a post-TEOTWAWKI world.
I appreciate that you expanded and clarified your previous statement. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Writer's Block

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,141 Posts
Well pal, we're all going to die at some point. As for your assumptions which you have stated about diabetes, your ingorance on the subject is quite clear. Being a realist and understanding facts as facts requires accurate knowledge of said situation.

With all due respect, your comments add nothing to the thread other than to anger some of us who have extensive experience in diabetes.
it is you who has shown his ignorance about the subject. you sound delusional as well. i wish you the best of luck. i will however not lie too you to make you feel better. sorry.
 

·
Christian
Joined
·
39,500 Posts
it is you who has shown his ignorance about the subject. you sound delusional as well. i wish you the best of luck. i will however not lie too you to make you feel better. sorry.
you assume a great deal. and now that you have been corrected lets move on.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,718 Posts
Ok, curiosity got me going and here is what I've found.

First some links.

These are some links for those with type 2 and need some kind of natural source medication to tide them over as they drop weight.

http://newcurefordiabetes.blogspot.com/2011/02/benefits-of-artichoke-in-diabetes.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050218160028.htm

Also note that whole stevia leaves increase insulin sensitivity (a good thing). Cinnamon and Juniper Berries are also worth looking into.

Next a 1924 medical text on making insulin the old fashioned way.

http://www.jbc.org/content/60/1/31.full.pdf

A link from this site that has a very long discussion about the topic.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=33479

Finally, the recipe that got the original Nobel Prize for isolating usable insulin.

Best and Scott who are responsible for the preparation of insulin in the Insulin Division of the Connaught Laboratories have tested all the available methods and have appropriated certain details from many of these; several new procedures which have been found advantageous have been introduced by them. The yield of insulin obtained by Best and Scott at the Connaught Laboratories, by a preliminary extraction with dilute sulphuric acid followed by alcohol, is 1,800 to 2,200 units per kg of pancreas.

The present method of preparation is as follows. The beef or pork pancreas is finely minced in a large grinder and the minced material is then treated with 5 cc of concentrated sulphuric acid, appropriately diluted, per pound of glands. The mixture is stirred for a period of three or four hours and 95 per cent alcohol is added until the concentration of alcohol is 60 to 70 per cent. Two extractions of the glands are made. The solid material is then partially removed by centrifuging the mixture and the solution is further clarified by filtering through paper. The filtrate is practically neutralized with NaOH. The clear filtrate is concentrated in vacuo to about 1/15 of its original volume. The concentrate is then heated to 50°C which results in the separation of lipoid and other materials, which are removed by filtration. Ammonium sulphate (37 g per 100 cc) is then added to the concentrate and a protein material containing all the insulin floats to the top of the liquid. The precipitate is skimmed off and dissolved in hot acid alcohol. When the precipitate has completely dissolved, 10 volumes of warm alcohol are added. The solution is then neutralized with NaOH and cooled to room temperature, and kept in a refrigerator at 5°C for two days. At the end of this time the dark-coloured supernatant alcohol is decanted off. The alcohol contains practically no potency. The precipitate is dried in vacuo to remove all trace of the alcohol. It is then dissolved in acid water, in which it is readily soluble. The solution is made alkaline with NaOH to pH 7.3 to 7.5. At this alkalinity a dark-coloured precipitate settles out, and is immediately centrifuged off. This precipitate is washed once or twice with alkaline water of pH 9.0 and the washings are added to the main liquid. It is important that this process be carried out fairly quickly as insulin is destroyed in alkaline solution. The acidity is adjusted to pH 5.0 and a white precipitate readily settles out. Tricresol is added to a concentration of 0.3% in order to assist in the iso-electric precipitation and to act as a preservative. After standing one week in the ice chest, the supernatant liquid is decanted off and the resultant liquid is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate is then dissolved in a small quantity of acid water. A second iso-electric precipitation is carried out by adjusting the acidity to a pH of approximately 5.0. After standing overnight the resultant precipitate is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate, which contains the active principle in a comparatively pure form, is dissolved in acid water and the hydrogenion concentration adjusted to pH 2.5. The material is carefully tested to determine the potency and is then diluted to the desired strength of 10, 20, 40, or 80 units per cc. Tricresol is added to secure a concentration of 0.1 per cent. Sufficient sodium chloride is added to make the solution isotonic. The insulin solution is passed through a Mandler filter. After passing through the filter the insulin is retested carefully to determine its potency. There is practically no loss in berkefelding. The tested insulin is poured into sterile glass vials with aseptic precautions and the sterility of the final product thoroughly tested by approved methods.

The method of estimating the potency of insulin solutions is based on the effect that insulin produces upon the blood sugar of normal animals. Rabbits serve as the test animal. They are starved for twenty-four hours before the administration of insulin. Their weight should be approximately 2 kg. Insulin is distributed in strengths of 10, 20, 40, and 80 units per cc. The unit is one third of the amount of material required to lower the blood sugar of a 2-kg rabbit which has fasted twenty-four hours from the normal level (0.118 per cent) to 0.045 per cent over a period of five hours. In a moderately severe case of diabetes, one unit causes about 2.5 grams of carbohydrate to be utilized. In earlier and milder cases, as a rule, one unit has a greater effect, accounting for three to five grams of carbohydrate.


Note that shortly after this process was put to commercial scaling they switched to sheep pancreas for better results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
957 Posts
Thanks for your research Zeke. I'd think that's not a process most will be able to successfully perform. Type 1 diabetics who are serious about their blood control are preppers by necessity. We carry extra supplies and medications at all times. We prepare for high blood sugar, low blood sugar, equipment malfunctions (for pump users). It's not like leaving your GHB in the wife's car. Life literally depends on it and situations can change rapidly.

The same holds true with long term preperations. We store extra insulin and supplies and have several plans to keep it cool. Learning the limitations and advantages of insurance plans is a must.

I currently have a year's worth of insulin (at current usage - it is likely that the amount needed would decrease in a true SHTF situation due to lower caloric intake and increased physical activity). I also have a very solid contingency plan(s) if that supply is compromised or is close to running out. Food preps are chosen specifically with a good glycemic index for better control.

So, if my supplies run out and my contingency plan(s) fails. Yep, I'm toast. But I can pretty much guarantee I'll be around a heck of a lot longer than the average sheep with their head in the sand.

CoolPrepper - thanks for the thread. Knowledge of options is always a great thing to have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
957 Posts
i think absorbtion or evaporative refigeration is the best alternative in the event of power failure.

http://www.ted.com/talks/adam_grosser_and_his_sustainable_fridge.html



same concept as nested earthen pots with moist sand between.
From what I gather, humidity has a great deal to do with how effective evaporative refrigeration is so location may prevent that from being a good alternative to some. I personally like the "icy ball" for an alternative. One of many things on a list of to do experimental projects. There are a lot of plans out there and groups of people who build these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top