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Tested in the Wilderness
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Why do anything at all? People make their choices, and they have to live with them. Or not. It isn't your job to ensure this friend makes smart choices.

I rather doubt any regular here would be in favor of not allowing people their choices. It's so Libertarian!
Smart choices for one person likely is not a smart choice for another. Most of the people I know on and off the net like guns and at least are not afraid of guns. A few could be classified as "gun nuts" but not me since I simply think of a gun as just another tool. I use and like some tools better than even any gun. Such as my Leatherman wave multi-tool. I find my chainsaws and such much more useful than any gun also since I use a chainsaw many many more times than any gun I may own.

I also have known a few who are very fearful of guns. My mom for one although my dad really liked guns but my mom got nervous if he brought out any of his guns to show some others.

I completely agree about choices and seems like most don't like it when some make a choice which they don't agree with, especially in politics and such. I try to not be political and I could be classified as an Independent. Not the Independent party but just fiercely Independent and when I have voted it was not really because of a politcal party which I am getting more and more disgusted with all politics. The only guy in politics I mostly like is Rand Paul and not because of his political party but what he believes and does.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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33,997 Posts
The op is running into a wall. The way I see it, friend is stubborn about not having guns, op is stubborn about having guns. Kind of like spouses on opposite sides of the prep issue. Since you are friends, it boils down to, you cannot and probably should not force someone to use firearms. Example and some subtle reasoning might help. Nagging doesn't help and men can nag as much as any woman I have ever seen (except maybe my mother.)

It is hard to step back and let someone make mistakes.

Everyone seems to be so dead set in their beliefs these days, none will be persuaded if they have been thoroughly indoctrinated in school over the course of years to hate guns.
They know for sure that they are right. Because an entire team of teachers drilled it into their malleable heads for years.
 

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Apprentice Geezer
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2,481 Posts
Personally In the more than half century that I have spent in remote and not so remote places/woods I have desired a fire arm less than a handful of times.
and the times that I felt the desire, I never felt the need to draw.
I say, if they are afraid of guns get them some bear spray as they are much more likely to encounter dogs and their vicious owners than any thing, that they would likely need a firearm for.

That said the proliferation of homeless, druggies and other undesirables impels me to carry most of the time in remote places now.
... A now elderly lady friend was alone in camp in a moderately civilized area when a pickup full of undesirables pulled in; they got real polite and started making excuses when she moved the .357 stubby into view from behind her leg.

Enjoy!
 

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Live Secret, Live Happy
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16,176 Posts
Years ago I was working with a bunch of chemists on a research effort, and some of them asked me to show them places to hike in the eastern sierra. As we walked allong one of them asked about mountain lion attacks. So I walked up to a hill that overlooked the trail and showed them Lion prints.

So the same person asked about guns. I told them straight out that I always carry when I hike, fish, or camp in the mountains or deserts. They looked at me and did not see a gun. So I showed them the 38 special revolver I had tucked away.

I dont know what changes these folks might have made later, but at least they asked about a real threat, and were offered a reasonable response to that threat. Although, in that part of California, druggies are a much bigger threat than mountain lions.
 

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I agree that there is a very slim chance anyone would ever need a gun. Less when they are in the woods surrounded by nothing. But there is always that chance a 2 or 4 legged predator will be hunting a person. I always edc but it’s really for 2 legged. Never had to worry about the 4 leggers.
 
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Unless I'm hunting, I generally don't carry in the woods. It's the safest place on earth. I carry every time I go to town, however.
Not so much. There are regular encounters with armed criminals that operate in such areas.

Many are involved in the manufacture or growth of Schedule 1 drugs, but it isn't the only thing that they're involved.
 

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I spent a lot of time in the woods as a kid. Never needed a gun. At age 11 with a machete, I was the baddest thing in the 400 acres we had.
I carry when I hunt and that's about it.
The truth is, in most of America's wilds, your chances of a bad encounter with wildlife are very remote and probably with good situational awareness and care, are almost nonexistent. I think most people that carry to fend off the wilds do so out of a bit of fear. If I were in a region that I didn't know the wildlife like I do here, I'd probably be a little worried too though.
That being said, if I were camping somewhere that other people don't go, I wouldn't worry much. If I were camping at some official campground or where other people do go, I'd probably want to be armed. I worry more about the crazies out there than I do some wild animal. Wild animals attack for only a few reasons. Fear, hunger, and sickness mainly. You can mitigate the first by not surprising them or cornering them or seeming threatening (situational awareness is key here). The hunger thing, if they don't see you as an easy meal they are likely to go look for an easier meal. Sickness, well there's not much you can do if they've got rabies, but with the situational awareness you stand a better chance of keeping your distance.
Crazy people on the other hand are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

If you're into guns and want to carry it, just in case of the 1 in a million or whatever chance, by all means do so. If not, then pay extra attention to avoid the hazards. That is the advice that I'd give a non-gun friend. Pay attention and be careful. Extra so with the two legged wild things.
 

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IMO, DON'T TRY!


Too many times I have seen people opposed to guns suddenly want to try them.
You as a pro gunner wants to foster and help grow this new found love.

Unless you are REALLY WELL trained and know how to deal with people, don't try. Especially those who are opposed to such, trying to force them is a bad idea.
 

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The Power of the Glave
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2,448 Posts
Refer them to the story about Timothy Treadwell. The California hippie, ex-druggie, turned nature freak. Who believed he could "talk" to grizzly bears. And "commune with them". Until one day they found his half eaten body and that of his girlfriend partially buried in an embankment. Killed by a grizzly:


And it's not only the four-legged predators out there you need to be afraid of. Plenty of two-legged ones as well. Especially out "in the woods".

Nature isn't all daffodils and butterflies.
 

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Premium Member
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8,011 Posts
They know for sure that they are right. Because an entire team of teachers drilled it into their malleable heads for years.
That goes both ways. We also have a prepping, tactical, and gun industry that drills fear porn into folks who then go out and spread their gospel in the worst possible way.
 

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Premium Member
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8,011 Posts
One last note to you naysayers, this just popped up in the news now, someone... always has to be the statistic.
So was this Man in campground accidentally shoots himself in face
So what happens more? Bear attacks or accidental deaths from firearms? You see, when you play this game your argument will always get dismantled. And eventually your friend is just going to think you are being intellectually dishonest.

Better to take a different approach if you want to convince someone they need a gun more than they don't.
 

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I've seen the documentary on Treadwell. I'm not sure how he lived out there with the bears as long as he did before he was killed. The whole movie, I was thinking that the guy was an idiot. As for the woman walking her dogs, a mama bear and her cubs.... is extra dangerous. I'll still stand by my statements above though. You can't treat nature like its a soft stuffed animal with buttons for eyes. You do have to be careful. Doesn't mean you have to live your life in constant fear either though. If you put me in the middle of a national forest unarmed, I'd feel safer than if you put me in the middle of a big metropolitan area unarmed.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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Much of this is about judging risk...which we may or may not do effectively.

Yeah, a Grizzly could ruin your day. We have the VERY occasional black bear wander by, a few coyotes here and there, but that's about it.

I would feel no need for a gun walking through the woods around here. I'm not anti-gun--those who know me, know how much I reload, cast my own bullets, powdercoat them.....I love my guns.

But I judge the risk of bear attack to be almost zero.

It's similar to getting the vaccine. I had to weigh the risks and rewards, which is especially hard given that we don't know as much as we'd like. I chose to get the vaccine (2 shots Moderna). That's not a commentary on those who chose not to get vaccinated. By the time I got my chance, it was March and I felt we'd seen enough that it was a good risk. I would not have taken it right when it came out.

The problem is when we don't know enough to adequately judge the risk. We're all just guessing, and hoping our information is sufficient.
 
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