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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend who likes to camp in the woods but they will not carry a firearm, they don't hunt and live off store-bought goods the entire time but make like they are doing survivalist bivouacking.

When I insist they keep saying they don't need one, I totally disagree and fear that one day it might cost him his life when I am not there, as I know the day might come that he will need one and not have it.

What can one do to convince an anti-gunner that they need to have a firearm with them when they venture into the deep woods or it could cost them their life someday?:unsure:
 

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Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything you can do. He/she will have to experience the need before they realize that they made a choice to be in that situation.

Insisting that they carry a firearm is not the right technique. There are many reasons that someone won't carry a gun. Not familiar with them, not exposed to them, a youth experience that either scared them or left that "bad taste" in their mouths.

Have you offered (presuming you are knowledgeable) to train/expose them correctly to firearms? Sometimes a friendly "I'm picking you up tomorrow" and then taking them to a range or privately owned area and plinking with a.22 might soothe some hesitations.

Wish we were close. I'd love to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything you can do. He/she will have to experience the need before they realize that they made a choice to be in that situation.

Insisting that they carry a firearm is not the right technique. There are many reasons that someone won't carry a gun. Not familiar with them, not exposed to them, a youth experience that either scared them or left that "bad taste" in their mouths.

Have you offered (presuming you are knowledgeable) to train/expose them correctly to firearms? Sometimes a friendly "I'm picking you up tomorrow" and then taking them to a range or privately owned area and plinking with a.22 might soothe some hesitations.

Wish we were close. I'd love to help.
No, nothing like that, I've known him since we were kids, he's just (pardon my French), thick as ****.
He's born and raised in a major metropolitan city all his life so he has no idea that gun ownership is not a gigantic privilege sometimes given to some rare few by the local authorities, as is the notion in most US cities.
I live in a state where CC is no big deal and a firearm is just a tool as it always has been considered as such.
I think the problem is, he never served in the military (unlike myself), and has no idea, he's been lied to and raised on the delusional belief I mention above and has NEVER been given the real deal aspect about firearms...
 

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Pusher of brooms
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Don’t push, they will either come over or not.
Years ago I camped with a bunch of people who were the last ones to ever consider carrying.
Didn’t push, even when some serious tracks were found in camp.
Its entirely up to them.

And there’s a lot of people that shouldn’t be packing in the woods also.

Sometimes bad things happen regardless.
 

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Think about this. The overwhelming majority of people do go their entire life without needing to use a firearm. Even folks in the most dangerous of places on Earth grow old and die of natural causes without ever using a firearm. So when you tell him it might cost him his life the burden of proof is on you. And the longer he goes through life without one you are wrong and he is right.

I have taken many folks on their first trip to the range and for some it just won't stick. So maybe taking a different and more gradual approach might work better. Like gifting him some bear spray or bow hunting.
 

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I get into this discussion with people on self-defense forums also. I EDC a gun and would always have one if I camped. I'm sure I'm safer that way. But the truth is:
  • Most people who camp do so without a gun and don't have problems.
  • Most people who don't EDC don't have problems.
  • Most people who camp with guns and EDC never need the guns.
  • Sometimes, people who camp with guns and EDC still become victims.
  • As Col. Cooper said, "Just having a gun doesn't mean you are armed, any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." If people aren't willing to get the training, they may cause themselves more hazard than protection.
  • Life is full of risks. You can't plan for them all and no matter what you do, you wind up dead eventually anyway.
So I'd just let it go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I recently got him into black powder shooting (my guns), but he just won't appreciate the dangers of being in the wild unarmed.
They are planning a trip to the Tongass national forest in Alaska and I fear he and his party will be like sitting ducks...
 

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OP, have you ever needed to use a firearm to defend yourself when in the woods? Unless i am hunting i generally dont carry when hiking or camping and i have never had an issue. Unless you can come up with some statistics to pretty much scare your friend into carrying i woukd just drop it.

In the end your more likely to push him away then completely change his mind set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OP, have you ever needed to use a firearm to defend yourself when in the woods? Unless i am hunting i generally dont carry when hiking or camping and i have never had an issue. Unless you can come up with some statistics to pretty much scare your friend into carrying i woukd just drop it.

In the end your more likely to push him away then completely change his mind set.
I have yes, I was on maneuvers in upstate New York at the time, that is why I don't want a friend to have to go through that especially unarmed, as had I not been so I might not be writing this reply right now.

I was with the 10th Mountain Division out of Ft. Drum New York for over ten years, they instill this principle in you from day one as guns are not just for combat purposes, a firearm is not a weapon it's a shield.

I told him even having a large caliber black powder firearm is better than having nothing at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Judging by the Tongass visitor's guide it looks like it is the destination for Bear watching. I can't imagine it would be so if people were getting mauled in numbers.
I never said they were, I said there's a chance, maybe a good chance but basing it on a visitor's guide is absurd, if it were happening they would never say so for fear of hurting the revenue from tourism.

Case in point, like in New Smyrna Beach Florida, the unofficial 'shark attack capital of the world', locally, little is mentioned of this but when it actually does happen the fact still remains, it DOES happen and happens a lot more than most realize.
 

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OP, have you ever needed to use a firearm to defend yourself when in the woods? Unless i am hunting i generally dont carry when hiking or camping and i have never had an issue. Unless you can come up with some statistics to pretty much scare your friend into carrying i would just drop it.

In the end your more likely to push him away then completely change his mind set.
Think about this. The overwhelming majority of people do go their entire life without needing to use a firearm. Even folks in the most dangerous of places on Earth grow old and die of natural causes without ever using a firearm. So when you tell him it might cost him his life the burden of proof is on you. And the longer he goes through life without one you are wrong and he is right.

I have taken many folks on their first trip to the range and for some it just won't stick. So maybe taking a different and more gradual approach might work better. Like gifting him some bear spray or bow hunting.

Glad that I am not the only one who thinks that carrying a gun while camping is always necessary. IF I was in grizzly / brown bear country I would but I have seen over a dozen black bears over the years even up close. They always run away especially if I yell and make a lot of noise or run at them with a big stick etc.

I don't recommend most people do that but it has always worked for me with black bears and I have almost always camped in great black bear country. Even camped for at least 25 summers mainly on my remote WY mtn retreat.

Before anyone might call me an anti-gunner I do have a good shooting range mainly for visitors who live in nanny states and two were from nanny countries such as NZ and England and they shot a great deal. I also have plenty of all kinds of weapons which I won't go into. I also usually sleep with a 12 gauge and other weapons nearby but to carry a gun usually not. I do a lot of outdoors activities, such as building, hiking etc, and a gun can get in my way if I carry all of the time.

I would never tell anyone that the woods, wilderness and remote mountains are dangerous. I would warn them of some possibilities such as lightning etc. but I do consider all cities to be much more dangerous than anywhere in the country or wild. Since the most dangerous of all animals inhabit cities.
 

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Other than pushing him into a bear? Probably not much! Probably one of those folks that really believe that it can only happen to someone else. And mostly they're right! Mostly.

Maybe he'll have an encounter that's a little too close, and change his mind. Or maybe he's one of the people who want to pose with wild animals on the side of the road!

I don't live in mortal fear of the wild, but the more time I spend in the bush, the happier I am to carry. Probably even more so, where some of the animals are habituated to people.
 

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"eleutheromaniac"
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I think I have just found a new business for me.
Dear "deep believer in bear spray, or fine without a firearm" camper/wilderness wanderer. Set your tent up in my yard........no fee charged, totally "free". However should you suddenly acquire an urgent desire to be in possession of a firearm, simply scream like your in a horror movie. And we can negotiate a deal.

Note: You do "not' need to practice quality screaming........trust me, it is in your skillset. You only need "urgent" motivation. And skilled highly experienced fuzzy "motivators" wanders around in my yard day and night.
 
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Another example of Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection.

Do you, and more importantly, does he know the story, 'God will save me'?

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”
 
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