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One primary falacy in considering a defensive arsenal is than most modern military style long guns almost exclusively carbines is they were designed of offensive use. Even the vaunted AK-47 which only semi-auto clones are available to us is first an "assault rifle" actually a carbine as is the M-4 currently used by most of our troops.
Are these the best choice for survivalist defense use?
Spray and pray and squad fire are for the most part not practical.
One having the stockpiles of ammo necessary for substaining heavy continious down range fire is beyond the resources of most of us.
Outfitting and purchasing some of these Mega Whampas 5000 rigs could buy a good used car and are beyond practical financial resources of many.
Spray and pray and squad fire are supressing fire tactics. They do not work against prepared defensive positions with firing positions.
Generally accepted military theory is you need a mininium of three aggressor forces against one defender to have a chance. You probably would need more.
Accuracy because of limited ammo would probably be a better defensive strategy over volumne of fire defensively. Attacking a defensive position with the defender putting an aggressor under fire with a practiced with Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and if surviving to get close coming under fire from a SKS the defender switched to would not make a muntant aggressors day. Add a few slowdowns in the aggressors path and 3 to one becomes a low end variable.
Picture some ballistic chest ****** with his SOCOM II busting into the barn and hosing the place down. A defender springs up from behind some feed bags with a SAR-1 with a 40 round magazine. Home team advantage?
Not all of us are unjustly advantaged and the Whambo 5k rig up may be matched by a practiced $600 set up.
With some planning and thought you and your significant other can defend the homestead well. A 47 or 74 clone or SKS and a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 would make a decent core defense arsenal.
Yes! the 74 and 47 are of the insult rifle genre but their close in fire volume have good defensive uses. The addition of a rifle if the terrain warrants and the punch and range of a full power military cartridge has advantages over just a carbine.
 

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I rely on AK's and a Garand and I can say that spray and pray isn't practiced by us, all of my stuff shoots well enough to make hits a 300+. I see lot's of S&P's at the range, most with ar's and aug's and of course glocks. Accurate fire isn't taught any more it's volume of fire, sorry but we practice quality v. quantity.
 

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Son Of Liberty
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Actually Dweller you point out some very good things.

IMO most of the time a quality pistol is all we will have, its all I carry on my person daily. My rifle is close but not on me. I cant go in the store with my rifle, I cant take it in a restaurant but I can my pistol.

For me a rifle generally means some sort of all out apocalypse now type thing or static defence in my home or around my home or otherwise already semi secure area.

Now given the option I dont care what the use I will always take the magazine fed auto loading rifle. If need be I can use it like a single shot , but still have the ability to put out volume fire. That doesn't mean lesser guns are not up to the task at all, it just means if given the choice ill stick with more options.

IMO the handgun is the best defencive weapon one can have in today's world.



There are many tactics to use, some times maneuver warfare requires volumes of fire to allow someone else to maneuver on the target and get the angle. Some times a lone shot from the dark dose the trick,some times running is the best bet. The goal is to be versatile enough to do what needs to be done.
 
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American fearmaker
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Are these the best choice for survivalist defense use?

No they may not be the best choices. What every person needs to do is define their specific shooting needs and then pick the equipment to meet the needs. Once they have the ammo and equipment then the user needs to practice a lot with his stuff. He, the user, also needs to plan ahead and make his practice sessions fit into any plan of defense that are anticipated.

Now, think about this: If a person lives in a rural setting that is many miles from even a small town, then that person may want to have a bolt action rifle that is scoped and ready for use at extreme ranges.

If a person will have to maneuver around in an urban or built-up area, then a decent AK style rifle may be needed. This user may even want to put a red dot or scope on his rifle for precision work.

If a person has to patrol around a lot on foot in rural, mountainous terrain then this person may want a small caliber rifle like an M-4 carbine in .223 caliber or an AK with a folding stock in 5.45 X 39 caliber.

So the need of the shooter is what determines the rifle and ammo the shooter has or uses. Then you get into the personality of the shooter and their experinces. Then you also have various technologies that a person may want to use to their advantage. For example, a younger shooter may want to use a 6.5 Grendel for long range accuracy. An older person may want to use a bolt action rifle in .308 Winchester. So what it all boils down to is: You have to make your own decision for what firearms you carry and use.

But, if all other factors get left behind, most people prefer a decent AK type rifle for their reliability in tough times. The same people also prefer ARs for accuracy over the AKs. And bolt action rifles draw the nod from most people for extreme accuracy. And that is kind of what lets us choose our weapons in most cases.
 

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I dont consider an ar10 supersass a spray and pray rifle.The rifles your refering to are for 400 meters and are great for urban settings.Look for something a little more versatile.
Most urban settings do not engage more than 100 meters anyway.
 

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My weapons fill my needs for my A.O..5.45 for patrol 7.62 x39 to hold the perimeter.308 semi auto to punch through obstacles,semi auto 12 gauge to hold the door and a tactical bolt gun to reach those pesky long range issues.All but the tactical are the same platform.Choose the best weapons for the fight you expect then get ones that cover the fight you do not expect(specialty weapons) and your covered .You never know when your ao could change .This could be you live in the city but when it becomes to hot you might need to retreat to the woods or(in the city) if most houses around you get leveled for what ever reason then you might need to be able to cover longer ranges presented by this fact.So never limit your self if you can avoid it.
 

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Military weapons were designed to work in the extremes. Weather, terrain, hostile environments. If you think you can defend yourself with a bolt action, fine. I think its like bringing a knife to a gunfight... The AR and AK, etc, sure they CAN shoot 'n shoot up stockpiles of ammo. Is that smart?

Do not underestimate the end user, many of us in here are not mall rats that 'spray 'n pray.' I did not learn combat from television and video games. A 30 round magazine, to me, is potentially 30 KIA/WIA and 15 if I have to double tap. However, having the ability to suppressive fire is impressive when needed. Not to mention one hell of alot of fun.

My family deserves the best I can provide. Dont support liberal trolls backed by tyrants that want us to have a single shot muzzleloader like back in 1776..... If that.
 

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Remember that you are on your own with no re-supply, gunsmith or catalog to order from. Getting a reliable, durable, system chambering a common cartridge is very important. Beyond that, it is a matter of what your pocket book, taste, needs, training, and so on dictate.

These are simple, reliable, proven firearms which need no modifications. Stainless steel makes sense. Remember that water consitions are highly likely to play a role in any Bug Out or SHTF situation.

Ruger MkII, III, 22/45 22 LR
Ruger 10/22, 77/22
Ruger GP-100 and SP-101

Mossberg 590A1 6 or 9 shot model
Mossberg 500/590 Mariner
Rem 870 Police Magnum

Glock handguns in any standard caliber but 9mm or 40 is the most common and tritium night sights and a light would be mandatory for me.

Ruger Mini-14's in stainless are about the strongest .223/556 system made.

AR-15's are common, adaptable and user friendly.

M1A and M1 Garands are battle proven through 7 decades now.

FN FAL is legendary for it's ergonomics and reliability.

HK series of rifles have armed countless millions. The G3 is ultra durable.

AK's we don't need to discuss. My favorite is the AMD-65 for it's light weight and compact storage.

Remington 700, depsite it's magazine issues, remains a great precision platform in nearly any caliber. Good optics will enhance it.
 

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Some people spend more time worrying about what gun they have than they train in how to use it. Not only that but food and water are more important. Are you an excellent gardener? Do you have a well? Then why are you analyzing everything there is about what gun to use for what?
 

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I am increasingly subscribing to the fighting mindset. I look at defense as a situation in which you are forced to FIGHT.

Fights are usually quick and unpredictable and violent. I think in this situation you need a weapon that allows you speed, maneuvarability, reliability, adequate firepower (rounds on tap + effective man stopping cartridge), and the ability to fight from 0 yards to several hundred yards.

I have settled in with the AK-47. Its the platform that works for me. I am not focusing on training to run the AK and maximize its potential as a fighting rifle.

I really dont think we will have the physical ability to switch weapons on the fly when crap pops off like a first person shooter video game. I think too many people try to have various weapons to perfectly fit every potential problem rather than getting a versatile weapon learning its uses and maximizing its potential.

What if you need to take a 300 yard shot and all you have is your AK. You never practiced with your AK or added optics to your AK because you have a 308 bolt action you spend all your time shooting at ranges beyond 100 yards.

What if you have your 308 bolt action with 10-50x scope, and a group of several hostiles somehow got too close for comfort, within 50 yards. How are you going to engage multiple threats with this overpowered scope, limited capacity and no iron sights at a close range?


You're screwed if you dont learn how to use at least one reliabile, versatile go-to always with you rifle platform and make it work. I think that most of the rifles labeled assault or battle rifles are these versatile go to rifles.
 

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One primary falacy in considering a defensive arsenal is than most modern military style long guns almost exclusively carbines is they were designed of offensive use. Even the vaunted AK-47 which only semi-auto clones are available to us is first an "assault rifle" actually a carbine as is the M-4 currently used by most of our troops.
Are these the best choice for survivalist defense use?
Spray and pray and squad fire are for the most part not practical.
One having the stockpiles of ammo necessary for substaining heavy continious down range fire is beyond the resources of most of us.
Outfitting and purchasing some of these Mega Whampas 5000 rigs could buy a good used car and are beyond practical financial resources of many.
Spray and pray and squad fire are supressing fire tactics. They do not work against prepared defensive positions with firing positions.
Generally accepted military theory is you need a mininium of three aggressor forces against one defender to have a chance. You probably would need more.
Accuracy because of limited ammo would probably be a better defensive strategy over volumne of fire defensively. Attacking a defensive position with the defender putting an aggressor under fire with a practiced with Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and if surviving to get close coming under fire from a SKS the defender switched to would not make a muntant aggressors day. Add a few slowdowns in the aggressors path and 3 to one becomes a low end variable.
Picture some ballistic chest ****** with his SOCOM II busting into the barn and hosing the place down. A defender springs up from behind some feed bags with a SAR-1 with a 40 round magazine. Home team advantage?
Not all of us are unjustly advantaged and the Whambo 5k rig up may be matched by a practiced $600 set up.
With some planning and thought you and your significant other can defend the homestead well. A 47 or 74 clone or SKS and a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 would make a decent core defense arsenal.
Yes! the 74 and 47 are of the insult rifle genre but their close in fire volume have good defensive uses. The addition of a rifle if the terrain warrants and the punch and range of a full power military cartridge has advantages over just a carbine.
4 to 1 is the current thinking at work if in a MOUT environment.

BTW......Does the fact that I use an M14/M1A make me unworthy for some reason? What do you use, and can you show us some pics?

11B now with a beer
 

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Spray n pray is up to the shooter, not the gun. An AK works for my needs and principles.
 
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Spray n pray is up to the shooter, not the gun. An AK works for my needs and principles.
Well put brother. The type of rifle is of less consequense compared to the nut behind the butt:thumb:

A semiautomatic rifle in the hands of a rifleman only means less time reloading.

11B ( Jack and Coke time baby)
 

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WTF?

What is up with all of these guys making pontificating OPs lately about stuff they have no clue about or credentials in?



I'm getting really tired of being talked down to by mall ninjas.



OP: ...sigh.
 

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I still say one Bubba with his grandpapy's .30-06 beats a group of gang bangers.....Or one middle-aged, balding, unobrusive man two blocks away.


Beware the man watching you with binoculars.
 

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I think that there are strengths and weaknesses with what ever rifle you choose. The key is to KNOW your weapon, where it shoots, strengths, weaknesses etc. You've got to know your limitations as well as your strengths. And like Indie said, there is a lot to be said about a versatile rifle. Or what Jeffrey said about the Bubba with the '06 or the middle aged fat dude.

Case in point. Who has the better chance in a gunfight, a guy with a cap and ball pistol or a cop with a modern 40 S&W? Obviously the cop with the 40 S&W. But wait. Suppose the cop is a rookie fresh out of the acadamy and the long haired dude with the .36 caliber Navy Colt cap and ball is Wild Bill Hickok. Who would you put your money on then? You'd be a fool to choose anyone over Wild Bill. Sure his guns are old fashioned (don't even use bullets, just loose powder and round balls!). But he KNEW those guns, and had used them in gunfights, more than once. One time against 4 armed assailents at point blank range who ambushed him, and another against a guy at 75 yards away who was shooting at him. He was involved in many gunfights and lived to tell about it.

My purpose in this illustration is to say that hardware will only get you so far. The rest is up to you. Me, I have an M4 that I love to shoot and is very accurate. Still, I fear to go up against the guy with the Mosin who knows his rifle intimately, and knows tactics as well. More than likely I'd be dead meat. Not the M4's fault, but rather my traing and experience.What you carry is not as important as the person doing the carrying, and his training/experience. JMO.
 
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