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I don't understand how anyone who considers themselves a self-reliant liberty loving person could really support either presidential candidate.On this site I hear some saying that they will vote for McCain because he is the lesser of two evils and will be the best for this country.While I don't necessarily agree with this I do understand it.Nobody has really said that McCain will be great for this country.On the other hand their are several people who seem to think Obama is the second coming of Christ. I just can't grasp how anyone that values their freedom and wants less government intrusion could even consider voting for a socialist.

Someone please explain this to me.
 

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All survivalists aren't the same. Some people see "entangling alliances", preemptive war, terrorism fear mongering, massive deficits, homeland security, the Patriot Act, domestic spying, as the most important issues.

I agree, neither candidate is worthy. And I won't vote for either. But lots of people have lots of reasons to hate Bush, and his stepson McCain.
 

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I don't understand how anyone who considers themselves a self-reliant liberty loving person could really support either presidential candidate.On this site I hear some saying that they will vote for McCain because he is the lesser of two evils and will be the best for this country.While I don't necessarily agree with this I do understand it.Nobody has really said that McCain will be great for this country.On the other hand their are several people who seem to think Obama is the second coming of Christ. I just can't grasp how anyone that values their freedom and wants less government intrusion could even consider voting for a socialist.

Someone please explain this to me.
People are under the false sense of security that there is someone checking and balancing and fail to believe that there is a huge conspiracy going on. Just like when I was a kid and thought wrestling was real.. No matter how fake it is to be able to throw a grown man into a turnbuckle at 40 miles an hour just by grabbing his arm, and no matter how I saw the guy actually run with his own effort INTO the turnbuckle, I still fought tooth and nail with my cousin when he told me wrestling was fake.. My common sense told me he was right, but I was in denial and brainwashed myself into arguing with him, just because his view would make the entire house of cards of a sport I liked fall down.

Same exact reason McCain and Obama have supporters.. They want to believe everything that their favorite media says is true.. So McCain fans will be loyal to Foxnews and Obama fans will tend to like MSNBC more because they are each a little more biased to their favorite team's candidate.

And gawd forbid they allow you to prove to them that the entire "war on terror" is based on a lie.. So they just keep on keeping on, because admitting that they are wrong will make their whole perceived view of their country's house of cards come down.

As far as Survivalists being Obama supporters go.. Seems like there are a decent sized handful of guys who are here because they like to camp and grow their own corn and brag about how self reliant they will be when the SHTF, but don't have a clue where the threat that causes the STHTF will be coming from. Like that salvia smoking hippie guy.
 

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I've got 3 answers to your question.

1. Obama is not a socialist. If you look up that term in a dictionary, and then read up on Obama's proposals, you will have to conclude that he is not a socialist. To take just one example, Obama's proposal to expand both private and public health insurance to cover everyone who wants to be covered is not socialism. Socialism would be if the state ran the only health insurance business and mandated that everyone use it.

2. Obama is the most intelligent and even tempered presidential candidate since Bill Clinton circa 1992. Intelligence and temperment are the most important traits needed in order for someone to make good judgements, and being president is all about having good judgement.

3. The conservative "movement" is bankrupt. Conservative policies that boil down to "less government is good government" have proved to be a failure on many levels, for example in the areas of environmental protection, health care, deregulating energy markets (Enron), deregulating banking and finance (yes--this was the "conservative" position, although many Dems also supported it), and the list goes on.

The ONLY place where I see conservative ideas as better than liberal ideas is around respecting people's privacy, but the fact is that most conservative politicians have pretty much been on the wrong side of this issue, at least for the last 7 years.

As for the guns issue, I sincerely do not believe that Obama or even anything like "most" democrats want to take away my guns. Example: I live in a VERY democratic state and am involved in local democratic politics, and have NEVER heard anyone say "let's outlaw guns". It's just not even an issue in Vermont or New Hampshire. It's probably more of an issue for big city democrats, but there are lots of democrats that come from states with lots of gun owners (Arkansas, Montana, North Dakota, etc.) and by supporting gun bans they'd be committing political suicide.

Anyway, I think there are lot of good people who are conservatives, but having seen how poorly conservative ideas & plans have been put into place in government, I can't support any politician who wants to put these ideas and plan into effect.

HippieSurvivalist
 

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I think...
Obama will be the worst president ever.
McCain will be the worst president ever.

However Obama is smarter than McCain. He seems like a lesser of the two evils. I don't support him, however am leaning towards voting for him. Painful as that may seem I think him being in office and what could follow could destroy this country.
 

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I've got 3 answers to your question.

1. Obama is not a socialist. If you look up that term in a dictionary, and then read up on Obama's proposals, you will have to conclude that he is not a socialist. To take just one example, Obama's proposal to expand both private and public health insurance to cover everyone who wants to be covered is not socialism. Socialism would be if the state ran the only health insurance business and mandated that everyone use it.

2. Obama is the most intelligent and even tempered presidential candidate since Bill Clinton circa 1992. Intelligence and temperment are the most important traits needed in order for someone to make good judgements, and being president is all about having good judgement.

3. The conservative "movement" is bankrupt. Conservative policies that boil down to "less government is good government" have proved to be a failure on many levels, for example in the areas of environmental protection, health care, deregulating energy markets (Enron), deregulating banking and finance (yes--this was the "conservative" position, although many Dems also supported it), and the list goes on.

The ONLY place where I see conservative ideas as better than liberal ideas is around respecting people's privacy, but the fact is that most conservative politicians have pretty much been on the wrong side of this issue, at least for the last 7 years.

As for the guns issue, I sincerely do not believe that Obama or even anything like "most" democrats want to take away my guns. Example: I live in a VERY democratic state and am involved in local democratic politics, and have NEVER heard anyone say "let's outlaw guns". It's just not even an issue in Vermont or New Hampshire. It's probably more of an issue for big city democrats, but there are lots of democrats that come from states with lots of gun owners (Arkansas, Montana, North Dakota, etc.) and by supporting gun bans they'd be committing political suicide.

Anyway, I think there are lot of good people who are conservatives, but having seen how poorly conservative ideas & plans have been put into place in government, I can't support any politician who wants to put these ideas and plan into effect.

HippieSurvivalist
1. Obama is running a national campaign. He is going to be as close to the center as possible and still get votes from the left. Check out his record from his days in the Illinois Senate. . .socialist he is.

2. Good judgment?? Take a look at just a few of his connections and tell me with a straight face he has good judgment.

3. John McCain is not a conservative. I really, really wish liberals would quit assuming Republicans and Conservatives are one in the same. They are not. John McCain is not a conservative.

If you really believe Obama will not try to remove guns from our society, I suggest, again, you check out his record in Illinois. I live in the Socialist State of Illinois, and I can barely have a gun in MY house! It won't be long before the Chicago Democratic Machine asks for my first born in order for me to be able to bear arms.

Quit relying on what the campaign tells you he's doing and actually check out his past.
 

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I've got 3 answers to your question.

1. Obama is not a socialist. If you look up that term in a dictionary, and then read up on Obama's proposals, you will have to conclude that he is not a socialist. To take just one example, Obama's proposal to expand both private and public health insurance to cover everyone who wants to be covered is not socialism. Socialism would be if the state ran the only health insurance business and mandated that everyone use it.

2. Obama is the most intelligent and even tempered presidential candidate since Bill Clinton circa 1992. Intelligence and temperment are the most important traits needed in order for someone to make good judgements, and being president is all about having good judgement.

3. The conservative "movement" is bankrupt. Conservative policies that boil down to "less government is good government" have proved to be a failure on many levels, for example in the areas of environmental protection, health care, deregulating energy markets (Enron), deregulating banking and finance (yes--this was the "conservative" position, although many Dems also supported it), and the list goes on.

The ONLY place where I see conservative ideas as better than liberal ideas is around respecting people's privacy, but the fact is that most conservative politicians have pretty much been on the wrong side of this issue, at least for the last 7 years.

As for the guns issue, I sincerely do not believe that Obama or even anything like "most" democrats want to take away my guns. Example: I live in a VERY democratic state and am involved in local democratic politics, and have NEVER heard anyone say "let's outlaw guns". It's just not even an issue in Vermont or New Hampshire. It's probably more of an issue for big city democrats, but there are lots of democrats that come from states with lots of gun owners (Arkansas, Montana, North Dakota, etc.) and by supporting gun bans they'd be committing political suicide.

Anyway, I think there are lot of good people who are conservatives, but having seen how poorly conservative ideas & plans have been put into place in government, I can't support any politician who wants to put these ideas and plan into effect.

HippieSurvivalist
Just wait until the population grows higher and Vermont starts looking like Mass. Look at our gun laws.... you really don't think that it will spread north? :rolleyes:
 

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Obama, his current campaign, and his future presidency has all been orchestrated by one person, Zbigniew Brzezinski. Zbigniew Brazezinski was the main man behind the Carter presidency, so I expect Obama time in office to go about as well. Super high inflation, high unemployment, and Obama will go after the guns. If he can't get the guns, he has stated that he will push to ban certain ammo types, .223 and .308 were the main ones on the list.

Who is Zbigniew Brzezinski, he is the man behind the arming of the mujaheddin in Afghanistan to fight against the Soviet-friendly Afghan government.
 

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I think most who are 'for' Obama are really just running away from anything that in any way resembles Bush. Because if we're liberty and freedom loving survivalists- he's been the biggest concern against that to date. So people are heading away from anything republican and therefore Obama becomes the 'lesser evil'... MHO. (Me? I'm voting 3rd party- I think they both suck).



I don't understand how anyone who considers themselves a self-reliant liberty loving person could really support either presidential candidate.On this site I hear some saying that they will vote for McCain because he is the lesser of two evils and will be the best for this country.While I don't necessarily agree with this I do understand it.Nobody has really said that McCain will be great for this country.On the other hand their are several people who seem to think Obama is the second coming of Christ. I just can't grasp how anyone that values their freedom and wants less government intrusion could even consider voting for a socialist.

Someone please explain this to me.
 

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Just wait until the population grows higher and Vermont starts looking like Mass. Look at our gun laws.... you really don't think that it will spread north? :rolleyes:
You might be right, but we're already MORE liberal and democratic than Mass. The guns issues might become an issue, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime. A lot of the people moving to the state are dems, but many of them (myself included) are gun-owning dems.
 

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Some people don't like to think for themselves, that's why some people like to follow someone like Obama. They don't have to think, and when they buy into his BS it makes them feel good, and to the sheep "feeling good" regardless of the truth is all that matters.
The same could be said for McCain supporters. It's all relative.
 

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...Check out his record from his days in the Illinois Senate. . .socialist he is.
I've read all the stuff the righ-wing smear campaigns have written about his Illinois senate days, and again, he is clearly NOT a socialist. He used to be a lot more liberal, it's true, but then he was representing a very liberal district.

2. Good judgment?? Take a look at just a few of his connections and tell me with a straight face he has good judgment.
[takes a deep breath] Obama was volunteer on a board of directors with Bill Ayers. So were lots of other people, including republicans, and the organaization was founded by a republican. Being on a board with someone does not mean, in any way shape or form, that you endorse anything about that person. The only thing it means is that you're both volunteering for the same organization. If Obama is somehow unfit for office because of his "link" to Ayers, then everyone in American history who somehow has a "link" to a former criminal is also unfit for office Well, that takes McCain out of the running, same with Bill Clinton, same with anybody who listens to G. Gordon Liddy... Do you see how silly this is?

3. John McCain is not a conservative. I really, really wish liberals would quit assuming Republicans and Conservatives are one in the same. They are not. John McCain is not a conservative.
Define what conservative means. If Sarah Palin fits into your definition of a conservative, then I'm actually GLAD that McCain ins't a conservative:D:

Quit relying on what the campaign tells you he's doing and actually check out his past.
I read everything on this forum, including all the right wing opinion pieces and "reporting" from worldnetdaily, fox, etc. You shouldn't ASSume I'm relying on what his campaign says.:cool:
 

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1. Obama is a socialist. His record shows this as does his plans for health care and if he actually stuck with a solid plan and explained how he will make changes, I suspect they would be more socialistic ideals.

2. An even temper is fine but I'd rather have a person in office who throws the occasional hissy fit but would have stopped NAFTA and not allowed the CRA to put us in the wreck were in currently. Wasn't that Clinton on both counts?

3. I'm not buying that the Dem's won't go after guns or ammo. Besides Obama consistently voting against gun rights and stating that he would go after ammo if not the guns his running mate Biden inked the original Assault weapons ban that was shot down, reworded and made into the what was eventually passed under the Clinton era.

They will go after guns because it wont cost them any votes from people like you hippie. Are you going to protest, change your vote or fight this? I doubt it. They won't lose any votes they didn't already lose and its a great way to rally their gun grabbing base support.

I wish a candidate who would return us to a republic had a winning shot.
 

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You know, I read posts on this board for over a month before I decided to join. I joined because I wanted to learn more from like-minded others, and also contribute what little I can in order to help someone else.

However, after much reading (and head shaking on my part), I have to wonder WHY some people are posting here. There is a core group who have done nothing but try to stir the pot and cause problems from day one. If you are here solely to support Obama and try to sling mud, then your cause has failed. You have helped to more firmly solidify my own choice for president - thank you.

I don't agree with John McCain on every issue, but I disagree with Barack Obama on EVERYTHING. If even half of the things he has done, said, and been a part of would've happened with McCain, he would've been kicked out of the running long ago. It is a testament to the sheer number of sheeple we have in our country who have gotten him this far.

I don't want a president who will sit down and negotiate with terrorists. Our country was ATTACKED on 9/11, an outright act of war and something which it appears many people have forgotten. If there were no other reason, I would vote for John McCain because I want terrorist nations to tremble in their boots when they even contemplate attacking us again. I would want John McCain in the trenches with me in a time of war because he's been there, and knows what we're up against. I think it's unfortunately a matter of time before something happens on our soil again, and Barry ain't up to the task, folks.

At least John McCain fought for the freedom you have to verbally run him in the ground - a right my own father-in-law also fought for through his service to our country during WWII and Korea. This whole campaign has nothing to do with "change" or "more of the same" crap. One of the core issues is - which candidate will protect our country to the fullest and preserve more of the freedoms we hold dear. I don't want government MORE involved in my life, and I can't honestly believe any other hard-working American in this country does either.
 

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I really don't understand how survivalism has to be political at all. It's just based on prejudice of the voters character. I'd rather see a socialiist country than a capitalist but how on earth does that have to affect how I want to be prepared for the situation NOW? Do you assume I have a lesser will of survival? Do you assume I will just sit down and wait for a socialist paradise? DUH!
 

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Vote for which turd smells less.. HAHA!

John McCain has never fought for our freedom of ANYTHING. Simply because he is a Vietnam vet and a POW? Hell.. NOT being shell shocked is actually a PLUS that I see Obama the socialist has going for him.. WHO would think that ANY person who was held hostage and tortured is going to react rationally when it comes time to use the military?? That whole McCain military experience bit cracks me up..

As far as soldiers fighting for our freedom.. The only soldiers who truly fought for our freedom, were those of the Revolutionary war. And they would be rolling in their graves after seeing what a bunch of suckers this country has become.. They died for THIS? McCain and Obama are the BEST we can come up with? HAHA!!

Time for a new revolution.
 
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