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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok this thread is going to try and incorporate a new thought process, a little of my knowledge that I would like to share with those of you who are stuck on the whole one gun, one knife, one shovel, or brand of cornflakes. People we get the point everyone loves something different. Blah, blah, blah.....

Now to the point. I play some xbox live on those kinda days where there's really nothing to do, maybe just crappy weather out. So as im playing a Call of Duty title, im noticing more and more as I tweak my loadouts, or kits that there is no one perfect kit that makes you god at playing the game. The environment is always the same but.the people you battle are different. So no matter how good you think you are someone comes along and destroys you. Now when this happens I start getting a little frustrated. I used to play the game only using on setup. Now I have learn the importance of taking advantage of several different combination of different kits so when one isn't working during a particular game I switch it up. This usually improves my gameplay. Each kit requires me the interact differently in the game.

Now to the real point, much like that game, real life requires you to adapt and change to the task at hand. I have more than one CCW in more than one caliber, with various ways to pack. I also own more than one survival knife, in more than one kind of steel. So depending on the day and what I thought I needed to bring my KIT or LOADOUT changes.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Dammit I had a whole nice thing wrote up and I erased it. Be patient I will explain kits tomorrow. Crap it was awesome too. :-(
 

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Diversity is ok, and what you are thinking about is a good idea, but you miss two key things.

1. No matter what people say a 9mm-45acp all have relatively the same effect in a human body, both penetrate the same depth into tissue, and both have relatively the same wound cavity (elasticity of human tissue).

2. Even rifle wise lets say you have a 300 win and are going to emulate this book.

Chances are you will keep distance, find lots of hidey holes and try to keep visibility. This may not be possible, and frankly it probably wont work here in the eastern wooded regions easily. However! A sniper doesn't need a sniper rifle or range, or a 2000+ scope to be a sniper. You can do the role with a AK, AR or maybe even a shotgun with a slug if you are a good enough shot and maybe toss a red dot/scope on it.

Tactics need to change, weapons baskets make distance change, but the weapon and gear doesn't have to be that different or varied for you to work most any problem. These video games will make you think a 50 will go through a car, a few walls, and three enemy in laser like fashion, but the reality each thing it hits can deflect the shot.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
More of what I was referring to was the Concealed Carry Weapons, however that was a slick rifle but again I don't want to go to far into the primary weapon.

I am referring to last ditch personal defense or emergency survival in the urban environment, basically EDC.

No what I mean by no one one gun/one knife solution is this. It is not feasible for most people to pack a fullsize 1911 and KaBar for EDC. Therfore the kit or loadout is born.

The importance of this is that no matter where, when, who, how, or why you have the essential last ditch defense.

Now I have numerous combinations of EDC loadouts that vary range from hometown/smalltown carry, large city carry, travel carry which I consider 100 miles or more from home, hunting/hiking, you get the point. This can be obtained with a small assortment of reliable, low cost tools.

I went with three firearms and about 4 different fixed blades and only 2 folders. I will list the items that could all be purchased for less than $2000. Some of you may say that's two much cash or that its not enough, but get this point now, I know my geographical location, my skill level, my pros, cons, basically considered all aspects of what I needed to stay protected everyday I walk out my front door.

Here they are

Springfield XD 40 Tactical full 5' barrel I run 155 grain speed got dots in a blackhawk serpa paddle holster.

Ruger LCP .380 auto I run 95 grain federal premium. Small serpa style paddle holster and holds spare magazine.

Taurus Judge Magnum first three chambered with .45 Long Colt last two with .410 shot shell.

Now the fixed blades...

Kabar USMC 7" with kydex and leather sheaths, amazon for around 60 combined.

KaBar Fin, also with kydex sheath.

Buch 119 special with custom leather sheath.

The spendy and rare one now.............Leatherman Steens in S30V steel.


And finally the folders........

CRKT Carson's M21 excellent knife I can't say enough about it.

Cold Steel Spartan. Nuff Said...

With these tools you can have the right combination for EDC, feel free to inquire as to why I have chosen any of these products and I will do my best to explain why it caught my eye, or please post you kit ideas.
 

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Ding... Thanks for playin
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I really don't think you will find many if any people on these boards that only has one pistol, one knife for CC... That is something you would not have to worry about on here!
 

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I really don't think you will find many if any people on these boards that only has one pistol, one knife for CC... That is something you would not have to worry about on here!
Just the opposite. Most folks on here have "10" CCW's and "100" knives.:rolleyes:

Though that might be a slight exageration, I do resemble it.:eek::
 

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Professional Knife Addict
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I guess it's just a matter of practicality in the end. It may look tacticool carrying all this state of the art weaponry, but you will look tactifool if you got popped having a load of weapons yet an ineffective PD system.
 

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Living Life
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Just the opposite. Most folks on here have "10" CCW's and "100" knives.:rolleyes:

Though that might be a slight exageration, I do resemble it.:eek::
I only have one CC pistol and and I have practiced and trained with it enough to be surgical. That is way more important than having 10 different weapons and not being proficient with all of them.

I am not directing this comment at you personally. But several threads on this forum point to "tacticool" people that have a little extra money to purchase an array of different CC weapons and they do not have the proper range time on any single one to be proficient.

I carry a fairly inexpensive 9mm subcompact that I have mastered the weapon to be confident in my abilities to aim, shoot, and manipulate it under any stressful situation. I take this same weapon to all pistol classes and training that I attend. That beats a custom Nighthawk .45 carry weapon in the hands of a someone who has only put 100 rounds down the pipe.

My two cents.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well im glad the thread is again out of its scope. one gun/one knife is good as long as neither ever break. and ccw is more than anti people. ever heard of bears, 9mm not so good for an angry bear. point is get past your one tool perspective and invest in additional options.

i dont carry my LCP bow hunting as it does not have practical application, however it does have practical application for short trips to the store. the same is true with knives. do you people even read the entire thread?

no matter how much I love my KaBar USMC, it is not practical for EDC day in day out, however there are times to bring it.

exmmple tuarus judge for hunting sidearm or nightstand, lcp for local small town carry, and xd40 for big city or more than100 miles from home. The application intended has a drastic effect of the use of that gun.

A sig .357 is not a good nightstand gun, but makes an excellent hunting sidearm, where you would lee likely have to worry about over penetration and wounding others.
 

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Professional Knife Addict
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A sig .357 is not a good nightstand gun, but makes an excellent hunting sidearm, where you would lee likely have to worry about over penetration and wounding others.
I have to disagree. You compare the speed of a 9mm NATO with a necked down .40 casing and it's the product is the well-rounded .357 SIG cartridge. Ammo availability however, it not as abundant as the former mentioned calibers. But to stay on topic, the main reason I purchased a .357 Sig pistol in the first place was to avoid having to carry multiple weapons for multiple applications as the OP highlighted. If you can get 1325 FPS with considerable ME in a target round, just imagine the options available for PD ammo. Just my $0.2.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have to disagree. You compare the speed of a 9mm NATO with a necked down .40 casing and it's the product is the well-rounded .357 SIG cartridge. Ammo availability however, it not as abundant as the former mentioned calibers. But to stay on topic, the main reason I purchased a .357 Sig pistol in the first place was to avoid having to carry multiple weapons for multiple applications as the OP highlighted. If you can get 1325 FPS with considerable ME in a target round, just imagine the options available for PD ammo. Just my $0.2.
I have seen overpenetration with Sig .357 rounds. It is not a do all caliber, nor is it a nightstand gun. However you are entitled to your OPINION, and I respect that. That round is proven to be way too hot for most law enforcement use. They do not allow that caliber at all in the three local PD's here. It is aslo proven to wear out a barrel quicker, also a huge con if that is your only one gun solution. I will not argue that it does not have it pros because it does, however the liability issue of shooting through an attacker or wall and killing/wounding a bistander is a huge con, and would never be willing to trust my families safety with it, example choice between shooting to save a life and questioning what is behind them, perhaps it is in your house and the attacker is between you and your childs room. Again I say the liability is not worth it, not everyone is a ballistics professor and buy what the idiot behind the counter at walmart says is "Good Ammo".

The Sig .357 in my opinion is a great gun when the hand that holds it is educated. It should be considered as an addition to an existing armory by an advanced level gun owner, and never be considered a first/only gun solution. Much like people should shoot and own a 22 rifle before they go buy a Barret .50 cal or assault rifle. The gun does what the guns does it goes bang! The person behind the trigger is responsible for educating themselves in its uses and limitations.

Does anyone get the idea or has the world gone crazy?
 

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Professional Knife Addict
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I have seen overpenetration with Sig .357 rounds. It is not a do all caliber, nor is it a nightstand gun. However you are entitled to your OPINION, and I respect that. That round is proven to be way too hot for most law enforcement use. They do not allow that caliber at all in the three local PD's here. It is also proven to wear out a barrel quicker, also a huge con if that is your only one gun solution. I will not argue that it does not have it pros because it does, however the liability issue of shooting through an attacker or wall and killing/wounding a bistander is a huge con, and would never be willing to trust my families safety with it, example choice between shooting to save a life and questioning what is behind them, perhaps it is in your house and the attacker is between you and your childs room. Again I say the liability is not worth it, not everyone is a ballistics professor and buy what the idiot behind the counter at walmart says is "Good Ammo".

The Sig .357 in my opinion is a great gun when the hand that holds it is educated. It should be considered as an addition to an existing armory by an advanced level gun owner, and never be considered a first/only gun solution. Much like people should shoot and own a 22 rifle before they go buy a Barret .50 cal or assault rifle. The gun does what the guns does it goes bang! The person behind the trigger is responsible for educating themselves in its uses and limitations.

Does anyone get the idea or has the world gone crazy?
You make a few valid points and for the sake of a constructive argument, I will say the following. Barrel wear is probably the least deciding factor when consumers decide what they want to use a pistol for. You should consider the fact that it may take several hundreds of thousands or even a few million rounds to compare barrel wear on most guns, let alone one of great reputation on it's reliability like Glock, Sig Sauer, Springfield, Beretta, or S&W. Also, we are not limited to FMJ ammo which is the most prone to the penetration characteristics you mentioned (Even though the wad-cutter standard for FMJ on this cartridge trades off some penetration for impact). Nowadays there are ammo selections that include controlled expansion, fragmenting, and full expansion hollow-point design even in this caliber.

As for law enforcement use, I must disagree with your statement. In many states (Google it if you will), this caliber is the standard due to it's ability to shoot through windshields (notice I did not say windows but windshields) from any angle even if your shot placement was not perfect. There can be argument for days on this topic but I am glad there are different opinions or this world would be a boring place to be. I personally depend on my Glock 32 because I have shot it, practiced with it, learned how to shoot it well, and trust it's characteristics for the event that I would have to save my own life one day. It's not a "good for all" gun for any means, but I like having the option to to defend myself when an opponent is behind light cover as well as if he was 20 feet away from me. Just my $0.2
 

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I have seen overpenetration with Sig .357 rounds. It is not a do all caliber, nor is it a nightstand gun. However you are entitled to your OPINION, and I respect that. That round is proven to be way too hot for most law enforcement use.
It's not nearly as hot as a .357 magnum. Not even as hot as the downloaded 125 grain at 1450 fps .357 magnum load that has shown itself to be a good self defense and police choice. In fact the .357 sig is ballistically identical to a properly loaded .38 super, a cartridge invented back in the '20s. With proper ammo choice, I don't see how it's a bad choice for self defense. You can get overpenetration with 9mms too if you choose the wrong ammo, and that's a step down from the .357 sig. Though I agree it's not a do all caliber. It's a bit on the small side for wilderness defense.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You make a few valid points and for the sake of a constructive argument, I will say the following. Barrel wear is probably the least deciding factor when consumers decide what they want to use a pistol for. You should consider the fact that it may take several hundreds of thousands or even a few million rounds to compare barrel wear on most guns, let alone one of great reputation on it's reliability like Glock, Sig Sauer, Springfield, Beretta, or S&W. Also, we are not limited to FMJ ammo which is the most prone to the penetration characteristics you mentioned (Even though the wad-cutter standard for FMJ on this cartridge trades off some penetration for impact). Nowadays there are ammo selections that include controlled expansion, fragmenting, and full expansion hollow-point design even in this caliber.

As for law enforcement use, I must disagree with your statement. In many states (Google it if you will), this caliber is the standard due to it's ability to shoot through windshields (notice I did not say windows but windshields) from any angle even if your shot placement was not perfect. There can be argument for days on this topic but I am glad there are different opinions or this world would be a boring place to be. I personally depend on my Glock 32 because I have shot it, practiced with it, learned how to shoot it well, and trust it's characteristics for the event that I would have to save my own life one day. It's not a "good for all" gun for any means, but I like having the option to to defend myself when an opponent is behind light cover as well as if he was 20 feet away from me. Just my $0.2
I make the statement for one simple purpose, people who are new to the concealed carry, or handgun world. I obviously didn't need to start a thread for people like myself, or you. The vast majority of thread readers are not registered users of forums, and likely have googled key words. This thread was designed at heart to pass out good valid info to noobs. With that said I would never recommend certain guns and or calibers to less than intermediate handlers this would include rifle calibers as well. Odd calibers have several cons already, but in addition to those cons is the uneducated masses who can go purchase these guns. Due to that line of thinking, I would simply only recommed what is deemed proven due to a decent history of use and reliability. The sig.357 to me is like goo.g out and purchasing an expensive custom damascus knife. Do you need it, No. Should it be your first purchase, No. It is in any way far superior in such a way that it will change the tides of war, again No. Is the ammo cheap, No. In no way is this a great gun to the new or inexpierenced user.

As far as specialty ammo goes, so does the dent in your wallet. Even for proven calibers the no penetration rounds are illogical to purchase. The Sig.357 is way too hot of a round for home defense unless you do go with a specialty round. It also is not just the barrel that wears out quicker it is the recoil spring too.

Another thing to consider is that the 40 and .357 can be interchanged with some manufacturers. I would still recommed the 40 first then if you want buy the barrel conversion kit and a heavier duty spring.

Again I am not knocking on the Sig.357, I like them but it would never be my primary CCW sidearm, nightstand gun, or SHTF pistol. Now that really hurts its uses in my everyday routines.

I never said cops don't use them, I stated that three local PD's will not allow them. There are also only three PD's in my area state, county, and city. With all of that said the Sig.357 is very fun to shoot at the range or if you are like me and just want something that is an oddity to add to your collection.

Again I am glad that the Sig.357 has found a place in your heart and hand cause any gun in the hands of a responsible handler, is one more person helping to keep our rights, streets, and families safe.

Thank you again for this enlightening debate.
 

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Blade Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It's not nearly as hot as a .357 magnum. Not even as hot as the downloaded 125 grain at 1450 fps .357 magnum load that has shown itself to be a good self defense and police choice. In fact the .357 sig is ballistically identical to a properly loaded .38 super, a cartridge invented back in the '20s. With proper ammo choice, I don't see how it's a bad choice for self defense. You can get overpenetration with 9mms too if you choose the wrong ammo, and that's a step down from the .357 sig. Though I agree it's not a do all caliber. It's a bit on the small side for wilderness defense.
From the info I have received from local PD's is that they are moving toward instant knockdown power, say one or two shots. They are trying to get away from rounds that require more shots, have greater penetration risks, or are more likely to result in death. It could be just local preference but I do tend to agree, I want one bullet to knock your ass down and out, and do not want to worry about a gunfight. This is a huge reason I stay away from 9mm. Most shots in the CCW world are fired less than 15 feet same is roughly true for home defense, hunting has a different range as most animals are taken from less than 75 yards. Now the 15 foot rule, sig.357, 38 super, .357 mag, are super powered high velocity rounds. The penetration of those calibers at that distance is an unacceptable liability. Slower moving, harder hit equals greater transfer of energy. Higher velocity, less expansion equals less transfer of energy. Math is math is math. No matter how you add, subtract, multiply, or divide it the best instant manstoppers are the 40-50 caps. Like a 45-70 compared to a 30/30 its the same kinds of differences. My bet goes with the 45-70 it made buffalos and indians nearly extinct.

As far as cover between me and someone, are you planning to do long distance sniper warfare with pistols? 15 feet and my 40 will touch you behind a door. Any more than shooting 15 feet in a defensive situation will likely land you in prison. With the exception of home defense, At which point a shot gun probably beats all.
 
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