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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Terms:
We've had the whole Survivalist VS Bushcrafter debate already.
But I'm wondering about other terms I've seen tossed around.

Survivalist, Bushcrafter, Prepper, Woodsman, Naturalist, Homesteading,
Self-Reliance, Primitive Skills Expert, Outdoorsman, Fieldcraft, etc...

First of all, if anyone wants to add on to that list, feel free to do so.

I have questions about what are they. It's easy to go online, Google
the word and you'll get several different meanings for each and/or
combinations of the words. So, what is what?

You don't have to read the "my" personal beliefs as to how I see each,
but please feel free to post your views of those terms I listed. I'd really
appreciate the input.

Thanks.

:thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Survivalist:
What does that even mean? What is that limited to? I'd say this is a good word to be deemed
as a generalized description. Is it only someone who plans on living in the wilderness?
What if the person plans on an urban survival situation? Are they not Survivalists?



Bushcrafter:
I believe I had a good grasp on this one. This'll be a bit more detailed than my other impressions because I've
come across a lot of confusion between the two terms (which I believe we settled in another thread soundly).
I'll re-post those same words here (with credit towards ThoughtfulWolf and TurtleWolf for the inspiration):

"From my exposure to it, there seems to be a strong concentration on reproducing primitive skills while less
of a reliance on modern implements and almost zero attention payed to prepping for different scenarios.

It's like "doing it just to do it" for their own pleasure (which I find no fault in) where the survivalist is almost
in a race to acquire lifesaving/sustaining skills and as much knowledge as they can on what they can use to
further their chances of living in a completely self-reliant manner while using all that can be used including
both natural and man-made items under any circumstance (urban, wilderness, post-war, etc...).

Survivalists aren't "passionate" about survival. In my personal opinion, a survivalist is more grounded in an
objective means to an end. You can't be a survivalist (especially in the wilderness) without being part bushcrafter,
but you could be a bushcrafter without being a survivalist.



Prepper:
My first thought is a sub-urban or urban dweller with a BOB and stockpiles of food and weapons
in their home or apartment. They seem to each have their own particular reasons for prepping
(like a particular scenario, WWIII, Terrorism, Solar Flare, Asteroid, etc...).



Woodsman:
I think someone from a rural are surrounded by wilderness where his lifestyle is literally how he lives
(not what he goes out of his way to do). To me, they are practical practitioners where they will fish,
hunt, collect firewood, possible farm a little and generally do "just enough" to compliment their lives
with natural resources. I see them as accomplished hunters, fishermen and trappers. They have no
qualms or pretense in using any means to procure food. They prefer to stock meat as a main source
of food. I think Mors immediately. Hardcore guys. Lumberjacks with guns.



Naturalist:
Tree Huggers (NOTHING wrong with that in my book, not a derogatory term), usually vegetarians, would prefer
to forage than trap or fish or hunt. Very into the preservation of nature. Very knowledge about animals & plant life.



Homesteader:
I see them as persons who strive to be fully self-sufficient with their own land and their own resources.
In other words, if the grid shut down, they'd have means to continue to live & provide a safe, secure life
for them and their family.



Outdoorsman:
I think "sport" right away. Recreational hunter/fisherman.



Primitive Skills Expert:
I see them as historians who master skills from the past and pass them on. Walking Encyclopedias.



Self-Reliance:
People who just want to depend on themselves no matter what comes down the pike. I see it a more a trait
(think our Nation's Founding Fathers). They don't want to be told WHAT to do by anybody. My Irish friends
would call them "Scrappers".



Fieldcraft:
That one I don't know. That I'd line up with Woodsman, but a little leaning towards Bushcraft.
 

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Wildlife Proctologist
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I think the bottom line is individuals need to make an honest assessment of themselves and then determine how that fits into their long term plan. I have found that most think of themselves as more capable than what they actually are to survive in the wilderness. How many people have a bug out bag that have never tried to live out of it? You know the ones who say "I will disappear into the woods and live happily ever after" but have never tried to confirm they have the skills to do it. These are the ones that will end up cold, wet, hungry, and sick.

I am not bashing anyone or even claiming to know more than anyone else; however, just want to point out that prepping (for much more than a weekend without power) is more than stockpiling rather it is a combination of having supplies and the skill sets to use both the supplies and what is around you.
 

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Throw them all in the same situation & you'd probably end up with the same result if they take their chosen lifestyle seriously.
There's a LOT of common ground within the different groups you listed.
I'm certain that all those groups could learn from any of the others if they would quit being so "sensitive" about what group they wannabee a part of.
I'm not much for putting folks into separate categories though.

There are plenty of people who are very passionate about what they do as we saw in the last thread like this.
There are also a LOT of folks who only buy a bunch of stuff , toss it in a pack , toss the pack in a closet & fantasize about how wonderful they'll have it when one of those TV show situations happens to them.
Maybe you could add "Sofa Survivor" to your list ;) .

Cliff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
They can all be intertwined in combinations of twos or threes. I think it's say to say that all are some and none are one.
But for example, when is a Woodsman a Survivor? Or when is a Primitive Skills Expert a Prepper? Understand?

The thread isn't about what people "aren't", but rather about what they "are".
Survivalist for me would be the hardest to define. How does one "survival"?
If a person's never been in a survival situation, are they are surviVOR?

Is a Survivalist someone who's prepping for a survival situation that hasn't been through one yet?
Can we call the person who's been through that already a survivalist if they "don't" prep? See?

It's like a maze of possibilities.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Throw them all in the same situation & you'd probably end up with the same result if they take their chosen lifestyle seriously.
There's a LOT of common ground within the different groups you listed.
I'm certain that all those groups could learn from any of the others if they would quit being so "sensitive" about what group they wannabee a part of.
I'm not much for putting folks into separate categories though.

There are plenty of people who are very passionate about what they do as we saw in the last thread like this.
There are also a LOT of folks who only buy a bunch of stuff , toss it in a pack , toss the pack in a closet & fantasize about how wonderful they'll have it when one of those TV show situations happens to them.
Maybe you could add "Sofa Survivor" to your list ;) .

Cliff
Know what? I'm thinking about a Survival Challenge for this board to see who's got the "skills" for real.
You get to take ONE item with you. That's it. No 5C's, no 10 Essentials, just ONE item. It can be a knife
or a tent or a water bottle or an axe. Then, we devise a standard like spending night in the wild, BUT!
Food & water must be procured from nature and an appropriate shelter must be built. Clothing is up to
the person taking the challenge (in otherwords, if they don't choose a sleeping bag in colder weather,
they can compensate with overdressing a bit).

Because I really don't think that many people here have actually gone days without eating or sleeping without
a "kit" or having to deal with possible death (literally). Matter of fact, I know they haven't... Armchair Survivalists
 

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Fieldcraft is a term i use specifically when talking about TTP's of belly crawling bushmen. the sniper is one of the most important force multipliers on the battlefield. his most important tools are his radio and his Ghillie suit.

Fieldcraft is the art of using your natural surroundings to help you understand what is needed to garnish your suit so that you blend into the terrain seamlessly. not only does fieldcraft mean understanding these methods, but also knowledge of the world around you. weather, wind, auditory noises, smells, how you move through the topography of the terrain.

this is just the tip of fieldcraft as i know it, i am a self trained civilian shooter, and it is scary the amount of time i have put into my fieldcraft. i have had many compliments from operators that have actually done the job for real.

hope that clears things up a bit. not really a term used by people like us. but i use the term all the time... and it confuses people who do not know what i am talking about.
 

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Know what? I'm thinking about a Survival Challenge for this board to see who's got the "skills" for real.
You get to take ONE item with you. That's it. No 5C's, no 10 Essentials, just ONE item. It can be a knife
or a tent or a water bottle or an axe. Then, we devise a standard like spending night in the wild, BUT!
Food & water must be procured from nature and an appropriate shelter must be built. Clothing is up to
the person taking the challenge (in otherwords, if they don't choose a sleeping bag in colder weather,
they can compensate with overdressing a bit).

Because I really don't think that many people here have actually gone days without eating or sleeping without
a "kit" or having to deal with possible death (literally). Matter of fact, I know they haven't....
That would be a cool challenge to be sure :) .
I just don't think that anyone in any of the groups listed would be in a situation like that or that it would define which of the "groups" they would be in.
But it would be interesting to see how many folks take you up on it & how it played out.

I could be wrong though :) .
Just my take on it.

Cliff
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That would be a cool challenge to be sure :) .
I just don't think that anyone in any of the groups listed would be in a situation like that or that it would define which of the "groups" they would be in.
But it would be interesting to see how many folks take you up on it & how it played out.

I could be wrong though :) .
Just my take on it.

Cliff
I remember once talking about a "real" survival show where a person is in the wild with nothing but their clothing.
The rest, they had to create and put themselves in a place for rescue. You wouldn't believe how many "that'd would
never happen!" comments I got.

I guess they don't know what SHTF means. The reason it's SHTF is because the things are about as bad as they can get.
I'd say not having any gear is fitting to that situation. What's so impossible of losing your pack or getting separated from
your gear or vehicle and not having access to it?

Car goes over a cliff, you can climb out and up but can't get back to it. Plane crash lands, you barely make it out before it
explodes and burns to ashes (LOL! At least you'll have fire!).

I'd have to be the first one to do it before anybody else tries it. But that'd be cheating for me. I've already done it. ;)
 

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You make some valid points there.

The guy who wants to be known as a survivalist would attribute his actions to his survival skills , the bushcrafter to his bushcraft skills & on & on & on....
Which brings a question to mind.......
Can we really be prepared for "everything" ?

I like the fieldcraft category though.
Seems to cover a lot.

Cliff
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You make some valid points there.

The guy who wants to be known as a survivalist would attribute his actions to his survival skills , the bushcrafter to his bushcraft skills & on & on & on....
Which brings a question to mind.......
Can we really be prepared for "everything" ?

I like the fieldcraft category though.
Seems to cover a lot.

Cliff
I love one of The Corps' motto: Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

The thing is to be prepared for anything. Some say that's impossible, but is it really?
Speaking of "terms", for me, being ready doesn't mean having everything you need,
but rather being able to deal with a situation as it arises with or without what you need.
 

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So if I understand the original set of questions correctly and you were basically asking what makes a person a survivalist vs bushcrafter vs prepper..............

I sure don't know :) .

I like posts like this one because there are usually some pretty sensible well thought out replies. (unlike the "I sure don't know" that I just said :eek:: ).
I don't agree with all of them but I try to respect differing opinions.

I just hope it doesn't degrade into a bunch of nitpicky stuff that leads to the arguments & name calling that we've all seen in previous threads.

Cliff
 

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Tested in the Wilderness
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I love one of The Corps' motto: Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

The thing is to be prepared for anything. Some say that's impossible, but is it really?
Speaking of "terms", for me, being ready doesn't mean having everything you need,
but rather being able to deal with a situation as it arises with or without what you need.
I like that quote best of all the other good posts in this thread.

And I Might know something about survivalists since I have called myself one since 1982. But I don't want to go on and on telling all that I have learned about the subject of survival. I do think that the term survivalist includes all the terms you posted in the first couple posts of this thread.
When I first joined this huge forum 4 years ago I had in my user title > "Prepared for Anything" but quite a few did not like that. So my current title by my avatar "Tested in the wilderness" tells quite a bit also but not everything.

I also think that survivalists are passionate about survival much more so than any other kind of people. The opposite of a survivalist would seem to me to be a suicidalist!

I personally, think that being a survivalist in a big city would be difficult. Such as much more difficult to obtain fresh food, water, hunt, fish etc. and then have to compete with thousands if not over a million others.
A homesteader in the country with good land probably is the best of all worlds but they better be able to defend that homestead / farm.

I also read on kurt saxon's site that he claimed to have created the word survivalist in 1972. Which is possible since the term does seem to have come about around then. But people throughout history have been survivalists - trying to survive whatever happens so they would not freeze, starve or be killed without at least fighting back.

A survivalist may or may not buy many things and have a well filled pantry. A survivalist does not Depend on things to save them but more on the knowledge and experience they have learned. If they survive a disaster, cancer or whatever, then they have become a Survivor!


And this quote is from an article written in 1980 >
"Survivalists were aiming to go through this crunch and come out the other side intact; so they bought gold and silver, plenty of storable food, water purifiers and generators, medicines and spare auto parts.

They learned to fix things, grow crops, tend livestock; they acquired trades that would be indispensable when the crunch came--mechanic, plumber, electrician, stone mason, logger, woodworker, carpenter, cook, emergency medical technician--and items they could barter.
And they were armed, extensively so, because come the day of reckoning, the pickup truck in the driveway might be filled with looters, marauders, raiders or just plain desperate, hungry people willing to kill for the supplies someone else had socked away.

The least-committed to the survival movement ( Preppers? - my addition to this article ) bought some goods, stayed home, and went about their business with a little hedge; those further along bought a place in the country to run to at the first sign of trouble; but the true believers uprooted themselves, abandoned or altered their careers, left comfortable, accustomed life-styles, picked locations they felt were safe, and retreated."

The long excellent article is here > http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=143654
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So if I understand the original set of questions correctly and you were basically asking what makes a person a survivalist vs bushcrafter vs prepper..............

I sure don't know :) .

I like posts like this one because there are usually some pretty sensible well thought out replies. (unlike the "I sure don't know" that I just said :eek:: ).
I don't agree with all of them but I try to respect differing opinions.

I just hope it doesn't degrade into a bunch of nitpicky stuff that leads to the arguments & name calling that we've all seen in previous threads.

Cliff
Not so much a "vs" as much as where are the clear borderlines because (as I've said before) several of them
overlap each other. I'm sure there are some traits we can attach to all of them (independence, self-reliance,
survival oriented, prepping, etc...), but there are definitely some that can't be attached to others. For example,
we'll never see a Vegan Hunter. :D:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I like that quote best of all the other good posts in this thread.

And I Might know something about survivalists since I have called myself one since 1982. But I don't want to go on and on telling all that I have learned about the subject of survival. I do think that the term survivalist includes all the terms you posted in the first couple posts of this thread.
When I first joined this huge forum 4 years ago I had in my user title > "Prepared for Anything" but quite a few did not like that. So my current title by my avatar "Tested in the wilderness" tells quite a bit also but not everything.

I also think that survivalists are passionate about survival much more so than any other kind of people. The opposite of a survivalist would seem to me to be a suicidalist!

I personally, think that being a survivalist in a big city would be difficult. Such as much more difficult to obtain fresh food, water, hunt, fish etc. and then have to compete with thousands if not over a million others.
A homesteader in the country with good land probably is the best of all worlds but they better be able to defend that homestead / farm.

I also read on kurt saxon's site that he claimed to have created the word survivalist in 1972. Which is possible since the term does seem to have come about around then. But people throughout history have been survivalists - trying to survive whatever happens so they would not freeze, starve or be killed without at least fighting back.

A survivalist may or may not buy many things and have a well filled pantry. A survivalist does not Depend on things to save them but more on the knowledge and experience they have learned. If they survive a disaster, cancer or whatever, then they have become a Survivor!


And this quote is from an article written in 1980 >
"Survivalists were aiming to go through this crunch and come out the other side intact; so they bought gold and silver, plenty of storable food, water purifiers and generators, medicines and spare auto parts.

They learned to fix things, grow crops, tend livestock; they acquired trades that would be indispensable when the crunch came--mechanic, plumber, electrician, stone mason, logger, woodworker, carpenter, cook, emergency medical technician--and items they could barter.
And they were armed, extensively so, because come the day of reckoning, the pickup truck in the driveway might be filled with looters, marauders, raiders or just plain desperate, hungry people willing to kill for the supplies someone else had socked away.

The least-committed to the survival movement ( Preppers? - my addition to this article ) bought some goods, stayed home, and went about their business with a little hedge; those further along bought a place in the country to run to at the first sign of trouble; but the true believers uprooted themselves, abandoned or altered their careers, left comfortable, accustomed life-styles, picked locations they felt were safe, and retreated."

The long excellent article is here > http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=143654
Outstanding points. :thumb: Lots of food for thought there. You've defined precisely how
I see survivalist as a very generalized term that can apply to many different scenarios.
 

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Improvise Adapt Overcome!
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Know what? I'm thinking about a Survival Challenge for this board to see who's got the "skills" for real.
You get to take ONE item with you. That's it. No 5C's, no 10 Essentials, just ONE item. It can be a knife
or a tent or a water bottle or an axe. Then, we devise a standard like spending night in the wild, BUT!
Food & water must be procured from nature and an appropriate shelter must be built. Clothing is up to
the person taking the challenge (in otherwords, if they don't choose a sleeping bag in colder weather,
they can compensate with overdressing a bit).

Because I really don't think that many people here have actually gone days without eating or sleeping without
a "kit" or having to deal with possible death (literally). Matter of fact, I know they haven't... Armchair Survivalists
Well, I could do it, *IF* I am not restricted in my clothing choices. For example, I can have a wool hoodie and a rain poncho to wear if temps drop and water falls from the sky. Then, all I would need is my knife.
 

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Answer Is No
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Fieldcraft is a term i use specifically when talking about TTP's of belly crawling bushmen. the sniper is one of the most important force multipliers on the battlefield. his most important tools are his radio and his Ghillie suit.

Fieldcraft is the art of using your natural surroundings to help you understand what is needed to garnish your suit so that you blend into the terrain seamlessly. not only does fieldcraft mean understanding these methods, but also knowledge of the world around you. weather, wind, auditory noises, smells, how you move through the topography of the terrain.

this is just the tip of fieldcraft as i know it, i am a self trained civilian shooter, and it is scary the amount of time i have put into my fieldcraft. i have had many compliments from operators that have actually done the job for real.

hope that clears things up a bit. not really a term used by people like us. but i use the term all the time... and it confuses people who do not know what i am talking about.
So Fieldcraft is somehow nothing more than cammo to you?
Fieldcraft was once the proper name for how things were done "in the field" if it was surviving, moving, camping-etc, etc. It has since been "defined" by supposed experts into "bushcraft", "survival" and other idiotic terms.
As for the need for definition, I don't see it as they all cross over at some point.
I'll take one from every supposed religous group that has been "defined" here and take them into the bush and I'll bet dollars to donuts that 90% of them don't last 24 hours.
As for the "survive with only one peice of gear", that is fun for an academic excercise but sheer idiocy in the real world. Why would you limit yourself to less than what even I carry in my pockets? To prove yourself to who?
I don't see the need for acceptance by any crowd realy so I see this as silly at the least and very dangerous at the most.
In the end (if you must) go ahead and define yourself if you must to feel good about your life, I've been called everything from "bush monkey" to "psycho gun hoarding survivalist" by people who don't know crap about anything but in the end I'm just human.
We should all just be human and kick the definition BS to the curb.
 
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