[1eaglescout]

What do you folks make of this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rpx...ldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=330737

http://www.rense.com/general84/consttit.htm


http://www.peacechicken.com/2008/12/10/update-on-ohios-hjr-8-call-for-constitutional-convention/

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=127_HJR_8

 

[countryboy123]

1) The fifth article of the US Constitution states:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

2) The delegates to a Constitutional Convention are NOT appointed by Nancy Pelosi, as this guy claims.

3) A Constitutional Convention is 100% legal and constitutional.

4) This current attempt to form a Constitutional Convention is for the express purpose of limiting the powers of the Federal government, not to increase them, which, in my opinion, is a very good thing.

5) The Ohio legislature, and indeed every other state which has signed on to this, states there will be no other issues discussed, other than to require the Federal Government to run a balanced budget. In the example of Ohio, if any other issues are discussed, Ohio will withdraw their delegation and the Constitutional Convention will then collapse.

6) Our own Supreme Court has very recently affirmed the right of the people to bear arms. This in itself will SEVERELY limit the current administration as well as the Obama administration in their attempts to limit the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

7) Indeed 89% to 96% of the American people (depending on which study you believe) support this basic right. If the 2nd amendment was removed from our Constitution, it would mean a Civil War.

8) IMO, this is much ado about nothing. Pure fear mongering.

 

[TAKEZO]

The delegates to a Constitutional Convention are NOT appointed by Nancy Pelosi, as this guy claims.


What a bunch of baloney!!

Once called for by the states, the congress is then in charge of the selection processs of choosing delegates--they could (if they chose to do so) throw in back into the hands of the state legistatures, or they could choose the delegates themselves. Congress could hand-pick the delegates to the concon. The whole process/'rules of delegate selection is in the hands of congress at this point.

The Ohio legislature, and indeed every other state which has signed on to this, states there will be no other issues discussed, other than to require the Federal Government to run a balanced budget. In the example of Ohio, if any other issues are discussed, Ohio will withdraw their delegation and the Constitutional Convention will then collapse.

Jeezee!!! ****!!!!

Once a concon is called... nothing is off the table. No agenda can be set or limited. Anything goes. A delegation can withdraw, and this still doesn't change anything or dissolve or collapse the concon--it goes on without them. Once started it cannot be stopped, until voted upon by the delegates--present or not. Withdrawn or not. Once started the ride keeps going until its done. Anything can go, including the existing constituiton.


Our own Supreme Court has very recently affirmed the right of the people to bear arms. This in itself will SEVERELY limit the current administration as well as the Obama administration in their attempts to limit the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Jeeze!! ****-me!!!

Even the 2nd Amendment could be struck out--end of story. Afterwards there would be no recourse. No SCOTUS decision could change things. The delegates (if congress chose to do so) could also be the ratifying powers from the states (because the are the delegates/representatives of the legislatures of the states at that point you donkeys!--this means it may not go back to the states for ratification (if congress choose to set it up that way)... it would be done strictly within the concon as it was done in the original concon. Congress sets the rules you donkeys!!!

So what's this mean?

We could start a concon on a Friday, and by monday morning NBC et al is announcing that a new constituiton has been drawn up and ratified. All legal and tidy. No recourse.

You have to remember that the original concon was a "runaway" convention. It was only supposed to meet to discuss modifications to the "Articles of Confederation" but it threw out the whole thing and started from scratch.

This could happen again. Don't laugh....

CONVERGENCE!

What does this mean??!! Convergence of events. Let's converge the comming economic collapse, default and bankruptcy of the USA... with a concon. Let's also toss some massive social chaos, massive unemployment, perhaps a war or so into this mess.

What would any concon delegate do faced with such tremendous pressures.
Now combine this with delegates completely cherry-picked by a communist senate and congress controlled by that great constitutional lawyer Barry O... and you might get the picture of what will be the outcome.

Any questions?

IMO, this is much ado about nothing. Pure fear mongering.

This is head-up-your-ass, neo-con, Bush and McCain loving speak.


T

 

[Slowrid-Der]

If a constitutional convention were to take place then the delegates will do as they please. Since the delegates will be republicans and democrats you can guarantee that the outcome will not be good for the people and their birth rights.

The constitution is not to blame and does not need to be amended. What is at issue is the republicans and democrats do not follow the constitution. Their oath to defend and protect the constitution is a binding contract. Since they did not follow the constitution then any and all actions they take once they have been found not to follow the constitution is null and void simply because they did not fulfill their oath. They breeched their contract so all decisions after that breech are not binding due to that breech.

Here is an example. If Obama is found not to be a citizen and therefore cannot be president, Bidden can not take his spot because Obama was not legally able to make a selection for vice president. Therefore any appointment made by Obama would be null and void.

What this amounts to is the corrupt two party system knows that its days are numbered and are grasping at anything to stop the people from ditching them. George Bush killed the republican party. These next 4 years Obama will officially kill the democrat party. So instead of just falling to the ground like a dead leaf they will do anything to keep power, even if it means destroying the country completely.

The good news is they can’t take your rights with a piece of paper. You are born with them, the government does not issue your rights. The bad news is if they scrap the constitution they will feel empowered to take your rights. They will attempt to do this by using British forces from Canada and Mexican forces. They will also use the American soldiers that are not educated enough to know that turning arms against American citizens is wrong and illegal.

The republicans and democrats have taken everything they can and now the only thing left is absolute power over the people. We are talking about pure evil.

Tyrants are destroying the country, what are you going to do about it?

Here is what some of what our founding father thought when in a similar situation.

The Declaration of Independence​

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


That is what our founding fathers said they would do then in actuality did. Granted they were far more intelligent then we are today and their courage supreme in comparison to our current population.

If they are allowed to finish the destruction of our country and then the people decide to defend their rights, the fight will be with foreign troops coming to the defense of the new American government. Decisions in the hearts of Americans must be made. If we let them do as they please we will be a third world nation full of slaves for the elitists.

If you decide to fight, the first thing that needs to be done is demand that the constitution be followed. If the republicans and democrats contact their representatives and demand only that it will have a big impact. That has never been demanded of the two parties before. Will they know what to do?

 

[rridgeoutlaw]

May God grant me the strength and the Courage to do what must be done in the event our Constitution is trashed.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed". This line is what scares me: Would SCOTUS rule that since the people elected them that they, in effect, would have the consent of the governed?

 

[Slowrid-Der]

This is still a difficult task to undertake. If they do have a constitutional convention, any changes they deem desirable must be approved by 3/4 of the states. The people will have time to address their politicians and let their points be known.

I personally know people that would never own a gun but still want the second amendment in place. The government assumes that there is 150 million guns in the country. I think there is a lot more and I don't think many gun owners want to give them up.

So we will see what will happen with this. It is a long process. Each day citizens are waking up to the problems caused by tyranny. Each day more black guns are purchased by these law abiding citizens. The government knows this and must consideration that fact when they create their tyrannical plans.