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Mad Trapper
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no need for hot water unless your making tea or coffee.
cool or room temp soapy water cleans just as good if not better because it does not cause flash rust in the barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No "flash rust" in barrel

no need for hot water unless your making tea or coffee.
cool or room temp soapy water cleans just as good if not better because it does not cause flash rust in the barrel.
In my 60 plus years of using a muzzle-loading arm, I have never experienced any so called "flash rusting" of locks or barrels whilst using hot water, & I NEVER use soapy water as this I have been told tends to draw the protective oil out of the barrel & lock.
Keith.
 

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Museum Piece
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I have no idea why you can't see them
Because I do not use Microsoft browsers. I prefer not to have them spy on me, and put up with pop ups every few minutes

Le Loup, I saw enough after scrolling down a bunch.

I disagree on several points. A lot of use have very thin stocks that have been pinned (and fiberglass bedded) to the barrel.
The wood is too flimsy to remove. Thus this takes a bunch of rifles right out of this way of cleaning.

Hot water and soap does a very good job of cleaning the sludge out. Then you season the barrel again.

My waterless way does as good of a clean, and the barrel stays seasoned. Different stokes for different folks.

The Thompson Center 1000+ method coasts money to buy the bore butter and #13 cleaner.
I even soak my patches in the #13, it is my spit lube. Cleans and seasons the bore after every shot.
This why 3 people can shoot 25 rounds during a trail walk one after another with these products.

Back pre 90s when I used production guns. Your method is all we used. There is a small dent in the shower floor where the barrel was too hot to hold and the tang dented the tub.

I wish not to expose the black walnut or Rice barrel to water, on my custom gun.

Say la vie misure :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Pigeons Milk.

Because I do not use Microsoft browsers. I prefer not to have them spy on me, and put up with pop ups every few minutes

Le Loup, I saw enough after scrolling down a bunch.

I disagree on several points. A lot of use have very thin stocks that have been pinned (and fiberglass bedded) to the barrel.
The wood is too flimsy to remove. Thus this takes a bunch of rifles right out of this way of cleaning.

Hot water and soap does a very good job of cleaning the sludge out. Then you season the barrel again.

My waterless way does as good of a clean, and the barrel stays seasoned. Different stokes for different folks.

The Thompson Center 1000+ method coasts money to buy the bore butter and #13 cleaner.
I even soak my patches in the #13, it is my spit lube. Cleans and seasons the bore after every shot.
This why 3 people can shoot 25 rounds during a trail walk one after another with these products.

Back pre 90s when I used production guns. Your method is all we used. There is a small dent in the shower floor where the barrel was too hot to hold and the tang dented the tub.

I wish not to expose the black walnut or Rice barrel to water, on my custom gun.

Say la vie misure :)
My Father used to clean his guns with Pigeons Milk, as he called it, & water mix. Pigeons Milk is a soluble engineer's oil & we used it cold. Not sure if my Father was using this back in the 20s, but he showed me how to use it in the 60s.
Keith.
 

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Museum Piece
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here is something that has been gnawing.
What you and the cool dude on the videos are professing is the way it used to be done.
I did it for years. Same way. Heck even learned a few things form them videos.

I took that information, and using modern ingredients, improved the longevity of my flinter and made it late not only my life time, but my grandsons too.

I have the original recipes for both the clean and lube (called moose milk & moose snot)
But am too darn lazy to make the stuff up. These formulas are from the 1830s, so most golden age folks do not use them.
All that period correct nonsense.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Living History & Survival

here is something that has been gnawing.
What you and the cool dude on the videos are professing is the way it used to be done.
I did it for years. Same way. Heck even learned a few things form them videos.

I took that information, and using modern ingredients, improved the longevity of my flinter and made it late not only my life time, but my grandsons too.

I have the original recipes for both the clean and lube (called moose milk & moose snot)
But am too darn lazy to make the stuff up. These formulas are from the 1930s, so most golden age folks do not use them.
All that period correct nonsense.
Well for living historians, survivalists & preppers this is not nonsense Trip Wire. Like you said, each to their own.
Keith.
 

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Mad Trapper
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In my 60 plus years of using a muzzle-loading arm, I have never experienced any so called "flash rusting" of locks or barrels whilst using hot water, & I NEVER use soapy water as this I have been told tends to draw the protective oil out of the barrel & lock.
Keith.
guess my eyes are better than yours then! lol
seriously do some reading, even during the War of Northern Aggression, no manual or regulation called for boiling water to clean black powder firearms, not even cannons. Heck you would have burned your thumb or swelled your tompion
As for soap pulling the oils out of the barrel, I don't worry about that. I use Minnie Balls with fresh lube of bees wax and olive oil. each time I fire my bore is seasoned and lubed...….absolutely no leading or powder cakeing.

keep the boiling water for coffee and tea, maybe boil an egg, but there is no need to clean a musket with it as cool water works just as good with no flash rusting
 

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Museum Piece
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Minié is the guys name, minnie is a mouse :D:

Any petroleum based oil should never be introduced to a black powder barrel.

Who said nonsense? I made that post to clarify we do the same thing, differently.

I would have left survivalists & preppers out of the equation. We keep an air compressor pumped up so we can free barrels of their charge, for those new to the sport. The modern inline (which I could write a book on how I hate them). Are more to the liking of those who just want a back up when their cartridges are all gone.

What we are talking about here is what the muzzle loading forums call Purists. (thats you and me) Thats we build our rifles and do not buy them.

The only flat landers that buy flinters and then pull their hair out, are those that read what WE post on how much better they are.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I Rest My Case.

guess my eyes are better than yours then! lol
seriously do some reading, even during the War of Northern Aggression, no manual or regulation called for boiling water to clean black powder firearms, not even cannons. Heck you would have burned your thumb or swelled your tompion
As for soap pulling the oils out of the barrel, I don't worry about that. I use Minnie Balls with fresh lube of bees wax and olive oil. each time I fire my bore is seasoned and lubed...….absolutely no leading or powder cakeing.

keep the boiling water for coffee and tea, maybe boil an egg, but there is no need to clean a musket with it as cool water works just as good with no flash rusting
Why some people get so upset & feel that they have to prove someone is wrong just because they do something differently I have no idea, but here is some information from "The Shooter's Guide" 1816.


The Shooter's Guide 1816.
Keith.
 

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Le Loup's method for cleaning a BP gun is exactly the same as my WW2 vet father taught me to clean any modern cartridge firearm after firing surplus military ammunition having chlorate primers. Quite often in the field and when deployed in forward areas behind enemy lines with Jedburgh teams etc. they had to improvise with materials which were in common farm use.

Dad learned during the Great Depression firing cap & ball revolvers and patched roundball "home rifles" being instructed by his Grandfather who was a Civil War vet. The old traditional methods still work.

Great video, thanks for posting! I will post separately instructions for cleaning the M1 Garand and M1911 .45 pistol which I was taught as a lad by GySgt James E. Humphrey, USMC, Ret.
 

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Much Appreciated.

Le Loup's method for cleaning a BP gun is exactly the same as my WW2 vet father taught me to clean any modern cartridge firearm after firing surplus military ammunition having chlorate primers. Quite often in the field and when deployed in forward areas behind enemy lines with Jedburgh teams etc. they had to improvise with materials which were in common farm use.

Dad learned during the Great Depression firing cap & ball revolvers and patched roundball "home rifles" being instructed by his Grandfather who was a Civil War vet. The old traditional methods still work.

Great video, thanks for posting! I will post separately instructions for cleaning the M1 Garand and M1911 .45 pistol which I was taught as a lad by GySgt James E. Humphrey, USMC, Ret.

Your comment is very much appreciated, thank you.
Regards, Keith.
 

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Cleaning After Corrosive Primers

As a kid I was brought up on the M1 Garand, 03A3 Springfield and M1911 pistol using WW2 era ammo having chlorate primers. Cleaning after firing corrosive ammo is no big deal. When done properly there is no worry about after-rusting.

Older WW2-era US military primers are VERY stable and have a great shelf life. I am still using 1930s and 1940s .30-'06 and .45 ammunition. I grab every round of it that I can find at garage and estate sales.

US military primers produced prior to about 1953 caused rusting in humid climates because potassium chlorate was used as an oxidizer. Upon combustion this converts to potassium chloride, which attracts ambient moisture from the atmosphere in the same manner as ordinary table salt. Chlorate salts are water soluble, but not oil soluble. To quickly remove the salts use boiling hot soapy water.

Boiling water is best because it evaporates quickly of its own heat, simplifying drying. If you don't have a means to heat the water, cold water will do. So will leftover tea or coffee or standing water soaked up on a patch left in a hoof print!

I was taught by a WW2 vet to bend a wire cage from coat hanger wire to hang a metal canteen near the exhaust manifold of your farm tractor, pickup, Jeep, M151, etc.

Lacking that use your Natick cooker or build a small "Indian fire." Leave the canteen screw-top slightly loose so that steam can escape while it heats as you drive to the range or back and forth between the pits and 600-or 1000-yard firing line. When ready to clean your Garand, snug the lid and lift the hot canteen out of its cage by the cap chain, then pour out from your canteen of hot water to fill your canteen cup 1/2 full.

Use your Mil-K-818 pocket knife or K-bar to scrape about 1/2 teaspoon of flakes from your bar of green GI soap, Calgon, Ivory or Fels Naptha into the hot water. If your bore is rough and tends to metal foul, use cake Bon Ami wiped and worked into a heavy lather onto your hot, wet patch.

Put your "soap patch" through the loop tip of your M10 cleaning rod and stir the hot water vigorously until it is nice and sudsy.

Do not use your "oil patch" or your "inspection patch" for this purpose, because your platoon sergeant will chew you out and not issue you any new patches for being a the daily Gomer.

You are issued only three patches at a time because "War is hell! Some poor seasick merchant mariner braved Atlantic storms and U-boats, barfing his guts out to bring those precious South Carolina cotton patches to you! Treat them with the same reverence as you would your girl friend's panties! "Replacements will be issued only after rifle inspection, if you pass !

1. Field strip your M1 Garand, M1911 .45 pistol, M3 Greasegun or 03A3 Springfield on your folded shelter half spread across your Jeep hood or bunk. Rest the barreled action with the sights down, so that water running out of the chamber does not run into the action.

2. Wipe the bore with your "soap patch" of hot soapy water, passing through the bore both ways, TEN times. Remove your dirty "soap patch" but DO NOT throw it away! Place it back into the soapy water, swish around, squeeze out for washing and repeat and re-use as needed until you are done.

3. Now change to your bronze bristle brush. Rinse the brush in the hot, soapy water and pass it back and forth through the bore TEN times.

4. Now lather up, squeeze and wring out your used "soap patch" squeezing out as much of the water as you can. Put it back on the loop tip, run once through the bore, remove, wash, wring out again and repeat! If you still see carbon on your "soap patch" go back to #3 and repeat.

If bore and patch appear clean, then use washed and wrung out "soap patch" on your combination tool to clean the chamber, gas cylinder, gas cylinder plug, operating rod piston and bolt face. Then again wash and rinse soap patch, wring out and put carefully away for later inspection by your platoon sergeant.

5. Now take "oil patch" and apply VVL800, non-detergent SAE30 motor oil or other approved weapons oil in a stream making an "X" crossing corner to corner, in the form of St Andrews cross. If you don't know who St. Andrew, was GySgt. Humphrey will ask the platoon Gomer to recite the history lesson for you (*see below). If you don't have real military weapons oil, Mineral Oil USP from the pharmacy or or non-detergent SAE30 motor oil is OK, but a "water displacing" dewaxed, polarized oil is best.

Roll the patch tightly lengthwise to the diameter of a cigarette, squeezing and twisting tightly to evenly distribute the oil. Now insert "oil patch" into your loop tip and pass through bore back and forth TEN times, then remove the patch from the loop tip and use to wipe chamber, bolt face, gas cylinder, gas cylinder plug and operating rod piston.

6. Inspect "oil patch." If it has more than trace amounts of carbon, rinse out in the soapy water, get it as clean as you can, wring out and go back to step 2 and repeat all again!

7. If "oil patch" has only slight traces of carbon, you are allowed to break silence to express satisfaction. You now may respectfully hum the Marine Corps Hymn or the Battle Hymn of the Republic as you then use "oil patch to wipe operating rod track in receiver, bolt lugs, bolt face, hammer hooks of trigger group, sights and exposed metal.

8. Apply ONE DROP of weapons oil to your 1/2-inch horsehair paint brush, to brush out the operating rod track in the receiver then brush away all loose dust and dirt from metal parts.

9. Take your Popsicle stick and dip a one half pea sized dab of grease from your grease pot. LIGHTLY lubricate the operating rod cam pocket, rear surface of locking lugs, hammer hooks and shiny spot under barrel where operating rod rubs as it reciprocates.

10. Reassemble your rifle, wiping all excess oil from its exterior with the "back forty" end of your baby diaper which is not used for shining brass or shoes, then dry and remove excess oil from the bore with the "Inspection Patch."

Now lay out "Soap Patch", "Oil Patch" and "Inspection Patch" across the footrail of your rack, prepare for inspection by Platoon Sergeant and pray The Rosary or Apostles Creed quietly.

*[Andrew was a Galilean fisherman working in the Black Sea before he and his brother Simon Peter became disciples of Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the Romans on an X-shaped cross at Patras in Greece. Hundreds of years later, his remains were moved to Constantinople and then, in the 13th century, to Amalfi in southern Italy where they remain to this day. Legend has it that the Greek monk known as St Regulus was ordered in a vision to take a few relics of Andrew to the ‘ends of the earth’ for safe keeping. He set off on a sea journey and eventually came ashore on the coast of Fife at a settlement which is now the modern town of St Andrews, Scotland. In 832 AD Andrew is said to have appeared in a vision to a Pictish king the night before a battle against the Northumbrians in what is now the village of Athelstaneford in East Lothian. On the day of battle a Saltire, or X-shaped cross, appeared in the sky above the battlefield and the Picts were victorious. The Saltire, or Saint Andrew’s Cross, was subsequently adopted as the national emblem and flag of the Scots, against a deep blue field symbolizing the waters of the North Sea. 100 years later it would appear also on the flag of the Confederate States of America, against a scarlet field symbolizing the spilled blood of martyred patriots of Scots-Irish descent, who comprised the majority of Confederate forces].
 

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As a beginner, I was told to use boiling water and a bit Dawn dish soap. After fumbling around with a really hot barrel and a cleaning rod, I would rinse the barrel and use a clean patch to remove the water. Within a few minutes, the bore of the gun would be covered in a fine coating of red rust.

I would start swabbing with patches saturated with Bore Butter. They would come out dirtier with rust than a .22 rifle's powder fouling!. I used so much bore butter trying to keep the bore from rusting, it would eventually build up in front of the nipple and cause a misfire. Using alcohol and a thick linen patch, I scrubbed the bore clean and used G-96 Gun Treatment on a flannel patch to oil the bore and breach area.

When I go out to shoot, I give it a quick swab with a little alcohol and it's ready to load. This keeps the bore from rusting and does not build up heavy fouling from oil. I also use oil/water mix on patches at the range to swab the barrel once in a while and once before I leave for home.

At home, I flush the barrel with PLAIN warm tap water (not hot!) or blue windshield washer fluid, which works well too. Just pour some in a small plastic jar and flush the barrel. Very hot or very cold water can be quite unpleasant to work with, I find. Straight water, warm with no soap, or WWF (stored in the closet to keep it room temp) cleans just fine
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Using Soap???!!!

As a beginner, I was told to use boiling water and a bit Dawn dish soap. After fumbling around with a really hot barrel and a cleaning rod, I would rinse the barrel and use a clean patch to remove the water. Within a few minutes, the bore of the gun would be covered in a fine coating of red rust.

I would start swabbing with patches saturated with Bore Butter. They would come out dirtier with rust than a .22 rifle's powder fouling!. I used so much bore butter trying to keep the bore from rusting, it would eventually build up in front of the nipple and cause a misfire. Using alcohol and a thick linen patch, I scrubbed the bore clean and used G-96 Gun Treatment on a flannel patch to oil the bore and breach area.

When I go out to shoot, I give it a quick swab with a little alcohol and it's ready to load. This keeps the bore from rusting and does not build up heavy fouling from oil. I also use oil/water mix on patches at the range to swab the barrel once in a while and once before I leave for home.

At home, I flush the barrel with PLAIN warm tap water (not hot!) or blue windshield washer fluid, which works well too. Just pour some in a small plastic jar and flush the barrel. Very hot or very cold water can be quite unpleasant to work with, I find. Straight water, warm with no soap, or WWF (stored in the closet to keep it room temp) cleans just fine
I did not at any stage suggest using soap. Soap will wash the oils out of the metal.
Keith.
 

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Cold water, hot water, room temperature water, cold soapy water, hot soapy water - they all work.

I prefer cool to cold water - no soap.

I use my garden hose to clean my BP guns. That water comes straight from my well and it is COLD!!!
 
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