Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Had a thought the other day, if SHTF in UK the chances of normal people being able to defend themselves in the uk is minimal. Im sure we are all aware of criminal elements in bigger towns and cities who have access to illegal guns, imagine SHTF and those types organise themselves into gangs of 30/40! What real chance would smaller towns have of protecting themselves against those numbers of armed men?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
Do I not remember correct that there are provisions for some people to own things like single shot shotguns?

It all depends on determination. Most of your 'gangs' are not elite death squads. Sure guns are an advantage, but the lack of discipline hurts them. Like the guy hanging back at the back of the pack to stop and take a leak. Someone taking him with a butcher knife before he can alert others is now in possession of whatever guns and gear he has. Kind of the same idea as the Liberator pistol in WWII. It was a crappy single shot .45APC intended to get a gun from the enemy so that you then could fight with it. Do that a few times. Now a gang expecting to run into little armed resistance gets ambushed on a bridge leading to town with no cover.

Plus a gun is merely a piece of pipe with some way to ignite the powder inside. If a town got together and mixed up a bunch of black powder (easy to do) after SHTF, then had creative people work over some pipe and lumber. All that would be left is a fuse or primer. Add a few cans filled with black powder and shrapnel (nails, screws, broken glass, marbles, etc.) set up like clay-mores that are wired to be set off from a battery. Maybe even some good ole' fashion Molotov cocktails. The bad guys are either going to take losses or run the other way.

Now I advocate NONE of this while rule of law is in place, but after that goes away, things become fight or die. Fighting "fair" is fighting to lose.
 

·
D. Gibbons is a bad man
Joined
·
5,418 Posts
Had a thought the other day, if SHTF in UK the chances of normal people being able to defend themselves in the uk is minimal. Im sure we are all aware of criminal elements in bigger towns and cities who have access to illegal guns, imagine SHTF and those types organise themselves into gangs of 30/40! What real chance would smaller towns have of protecting themselves against those numbers of armed men?
If you are indeed in the the Borders or D&G regions I am sure you will be at least situationally aware of the level firearms ownership.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
952 Posts
Do I not remember correct that there are provisions for some people to own things like single shot shotguns?

It all depends on determination. Most of your 'gangs' are not elite death squads. Sure guns are an advantage, but the lack of discipline hurts them. Like the guy hanging back at the back of the pack to stop and take a leak. Someone taking him with a butcher knife before he can alert others is now in possession of whatever guns and gear he has. Kind of the same idea as the Liberator pistol in WWII. It was a crappy single shot .45APC intended to get a gun from the enemy so that you then could fight with it. Do that a few times. Now a gang expecting to run into little armed resistance gets ambushed on a bridge leading to town with no cover.

Plus a gun is merely a piece of pipe with some way to ignite the powder inside. If a town got together and mixed up a bunch of black powder (easy to do) after SHTF, then had creative people work over some pipe and lumber. All that would be left is a fuse or primer. Add a few cans filled with black powder and shrapnel (nails, screws, broken glass, marbles, etc.) set up like clay-mores that are wired to be set off from a battery. Maybe even some good ole' fashion Molotov cocktails. The bad guys are either going to take losses or run the other way.

Now I advocate NONE of this while rule of law is in place, but after that goes away, things become fight or die. Fighting "fair" is fighting to lose.
Most family groups or villages are not steely-eyed dealers of death. Arming yourself from the bodies of your enemies is a difficult way to produce an effective fighting force.

Most settlements in UK are badly designed for defence. This is a result of 350 years without foreign invasion, plus the highest population density in Europe (at least in the south-east). Unless you're planning on taking over Fort George or Windsor Castle, you're going to have problems creating a defensive location.

Organising your community to provide 24-hour overwatch, including drone cover of likely approach routes, will be extremely difficult. Most people will refuse to accept the new reality. Sourcing the barbed wire and excavation machines to build the fortifications you need will only attract attention. Fortifying your isolated farmhouse just pays your entry fee into the Dead Rhodesian Farmers' Club. You may as well pre-dig the graves so the marauders have somewhere to tip the bodies when they've finished r*ping your wife and kids.

Basically, your appreciation of the situation needs to include many factors. These include what you're going to do with the time from now, to when you notice the SHTF, to when the hungry mob comes up the road into your village. If you're young enough, start with getting some professional training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,113 Posts
66 million people on an island where the majority lives in big cities? Damn, thats going to be hard!!

Is there anywhere at all on the british isles where you can disappear and become invisible?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Yes the Atlantic, any thing with land is not possible.

Back to the OP question.
If say ten blokes got together today, armed with knives and bats, ( everyone wants a baseball bat, why not a English cricket bat?)

lets go to a big posh house in a city, a million pound pound house. we know we are going to be good for cars and vehicles, caravan or motor home, dads toy car in the garage. garage tools, pretty trinkets in the jewellery box as well as art and pictures in the main house at least £200k in spoils.

send in two blokes in suits and give it the Jehovah witness door knock, everyone runs in tie up the people and strip the house.

on paper its quick clean and simple and a good turn over, its happens occasionally in the uk so it must work.

but it falls apart very quickly, ten blokes will never agree on every thing, someone always makes a mistake and everyone gets pinched and its only £200k if you sell every thing off, so its more likely to be worth £20k not £200k so its suddenly not worth the aggravation and trouble. its a very very poor return for the outlay and effort required.

if its worthless now, after an event where there is no market to sell expensive toys and cars with no fuel its even less so
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,336 Posts
You can make a decent 40lb bow out of pvc pipe and fiberglass marker rods.

Just to give you an idea. There is lots of variations of this idea.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
952 Posts
Great point.
Are you allowed primitive firearms (black powder) in England?
This might be the time to stock up on these as well as bows / crossbows.

In 2020, I think we all realize that this is a real possibility.
Owning deadly weapons is perfectly possible over here, you can get things like this:
https://www.businessinsider.com/gun...which-means-it-gets-around-the-handgun-ban-11

It's more difficult for most people here than n US, but it is possible. Re-enactors get black powder muskets as 'shotguns'. Anyone can build or buy a crossbow or a longbow, I've done it myself, and mine will kill you dead at 50 yards (beyond that I'd have to be lucky to hit you). It's only handguns and automatic weapons that are impossible to get. And in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Plus the usual assortment of axes, knives and clubs is available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Great point.
Are you allowed primitive firearms (black powder) in England?
This might be the time to stock up on these as well as bows / crossbows.

In 2020, I think we all realize that this is a real possibility.
all forms of bow and cross bow is legal

black powder is also legal with either one of our gun permits to hold and own it, its expensive at around $50ish a pound to buy and its a limited choice to choose from
other than certain fire arms its extremely easy to arm ones self in the uk as the person your up against is equally unarmed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,007 Posts
If I lived there I would have several bows and keep a supply of arrows. Just like here people have a minimum ammo they store, same deal. And spare parts.

I imagine if you ever needed it - it would basically be a deterrent, once you are found to not be a soft easy target, whatever force is coming at you will look for an easier target.
 

·
TEXAS!!!
Joined
·
7,261 Posts
You can do what the Yugoslavians did in the early '90's, during "the Siege". Guns were illegal, but most everyone had a, "not legally obtained" AK47 hidden in the wall, or elsewhere in the house, and a couple hundred rounds of ammo. They didn't particularly LIKE the AK, but said it was "Useful". I know a couple of them from over there during that time period, and we actually had a fellow on board here named "Selco" I believe, who gave his account. I also know a couple (Girl, and Guy), who lived it too. Their story was validated, by Selco.

Bows, and crossbows, are good for "stealth", but once you shoot it, you become pretty vulnerable.
 

·
Swirl Herder
Joined
·
3,588 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,146 Posts
Yes the Atlantic, any thing with land is not possible.

Back to the OP question.
If say ten blokes got together today, armed with knives and bats, ( everyone wants a baseball bat, why not a English cricket bat?)

lets go to a big posh house in a city, a million pound pound house. we know we are going to be good for cars and vehicles, caravan or motor home, dads toy car in the garage. garage tools, pretty trinkets in the jewellery box as well as art and pictures in the main house at least £200k in spoils.

send in two blokes in suits and give it the Jehovah witness door knock, everyone runs in tie up the people and strip the house.

on paper its quick clean and simple and a good turn over, its happens occasionally in the uk so it must work.

but it falls apart very quickly, ten blokes will never agree on every thing, someone always makes a mistake and everyone gets pinched and its only £200k if you sell every thing off, so its more likely to be worth £20k not £200k so its suddenly not worth the aggravation and trouble. its a very very poor return for the outlay and effort required.

if its worthless now, after an event where there is no market to sell expensive toys and cars with no fuel its even less so
You don’t need 10. You need 3 or 4. And that’s very doable. And 20k is a lot
To a crook for a few hours work.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,146 Posts
Great point.
Are you allowed primitive firearms (black powder) in England?
This might be the time to stock up on these as well as bows / crossbows.

In 2020, I think we all realize that this is a real possibility.
Owning deadly weapons is perfectly possible over here, you can get things like this:
https://www.businessinsider.com/gun...which-means-it-gets-around-the-handgun-ban-11

It's more difficult for most people here than n US, but it is possible. Re-enactors get black powder muskets as 'shotguns'. Anyone can build or buy a crossbow or a longbow, I've done it myself, and mine will kill you dead at 50 yards (beyond that I'd have to be lucky to hit you). It's only handguns and automatic weapons that are impossible to get. And in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Plus the usual assortment of axes, knives and clubs is available.
You can make your own gun. I believe ammo is easy to get right ?

Follow Ivan the troll or some of the guys 3D printing guns.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top