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Raving Loony
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Out of the marriage, that is.

I've had it. It's over.

First question: When do I go???? Next fall, when the five years I promised myself I'd give the situation are over????

Or right after school lets out in 2014, which will be the summer before my littlest one is ready to go to school????

I view the four more years as time almost completely wasted, as I have to hear him screaming about how horribly selfish I am if I want to invest any time in anything he does not value (cleaning his house, cooking his meals, or working on a future career that is, and I quote, "acceptable for an engineer's wife").

On the other hand, if I wait, I have the luxury of being home with my kids until they go to school. He has the luxury of being with them whenever he cares to give the time through their formative years. And they have the luxury of being old enough to both understand (somewhat) and have some voice in the custody and visitation arrangements.

Next question: Since I have the luxury of planning, how do I go about coming up with an exit strategy???? Figuring out where I'm going to go until it's final, where I/we are going to go to start over, how I'm going to take care of them (assuming I become the residential parent) with even less time and much less money???? Figuring out what kind of job will allow a middle-aged woman with a Bachelor of Arts to feed three kids????

I'll do it on my own. I don't want his dammm money. If we get child support, it goes in a college fund.

Considering his prohibition on me learning any kind of trade and my complete aversion to the white collar culture, what can I do???? How can I get the training so I'm able to start work immediately???? Can a nurse's aide or home health aide keep three kids warm and fed if she is very frugal????
 

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wow, total personal shtf for you. so sorry to hear this is happening. Thank goodness you have time to think and plan... hopefully you and the kids are safe staying with him? A lot of us have gone through this same thing. I didn't have kids at the time, so maybe my road was a bit easier. since he didn't want to go to counseling to work on our problems, I went first to get some personal counseling, it helped me decide if i was making my decision for the right reasons and to help me set my priorities and goals. A good counselor is worth their weight in gold, and it is great to have somebody not personally involved to bounce ideas off of. not a shrink, but a "life situation coach"... In my case they helped me keep perspective and to understand the dynamics. what I was doing that kept me in a bad relationship, and why i sought that out .... anyways lots of insights i hadn't been able to see for myself. they helped me handle my anger and grief, and to manage anxiety in healthy ways and to set goals for myself. I did this while still in the home, same as you might. for me it really helped to prepare for the rest of my life. 30 years later, I am healthy and sane and have had a great and successful second marriage. If you are determined to do this, get a professional to help. you won't regret it. my 2 cents and best of luck to you.
 

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angel waiting
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I say you have a good start on a bad situation. I raised a daughter all on my own for 21 years with no child support or help from the system if I can do it anybody can. Yes you need to learn to be frugal and you will have to teach your children to be frugal as well. If you are staying in the situation now I say sock as much money away and not in a bank as you can, perhaps give it to someone you trust to hold on to. Do not forgo the child support it's just as much his responsibility to help with the upkeep of your children as it is yours.
As for an exit strategy I suggest you start keeping a a journal of his outburst time dated you'll understand why when you start divorce preceedings. I cannot emphasis enough about stashing money away even if you hide it in the walls or in a register vent putting any amount of money away is impartative to your ability to start over. As for a career I say screw him if your going to have to hear him scream at you anyways do what you want but get out there and do something so when it comes time for you to finally leave you won't be having to start from scratch.
I agree with the counseling, no matter how much you think you have your mind wrapped around the situation and the eventual outcome when you finally make the leave it will still surprise you how much it really is going to affect you and your children.
Most of all be strong, be brave and keep your head held high. Good luck to you.
 

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Can a nurse's aide or home health aide keep three kids warm and fed if she is very frugal????
most likly not. if you and the kids are safe, you might look into geting you RN. it is a two year degree, and your earning potenetial is much higher. i think there is something between an aid, and a RN, but not sure.
where my wife is working, a non-skilled nurcing home, the ades make $8-$10 an hour, the RN's are at $22.
 

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Ive been there, done that. It's not easy, but I figured I'd rather be out and starting over than have my girls have the impression that that is the way men are supposed to treat women.
Do you have family you could go to? A lot of people are doing that now and it would allow you to go back to school.
Good luck, but I wouldn't wait if it were me.
 

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Out of the marriage, that is.

I've had it. It's over.

First question: When do I go???? Next fall, when the five years I promised myself I'd give the situation are over????

Or right after school lets out in 2014, which will be the summer before my littlest one is ready to go to school????

I view the four more years as time almost completely wasted, as I have to hear him screaming about how horribly selfish I am if I want to invest any time in anything he does not value (cleaning his house, cooking his meals, or working on a future career that is, and I quote, "acceptable for an engineer's wife").

On the other hand, if I wait, I have the luxury of being home with my kids until they go to school. He has the luxury of being with them whenever he cares to give the time through their formative years. And they have the luxury of being old enough to both understand (somewhat) and have some voice in the custody and visitation arrangements.

Next question: Since I have the luxury of planning, how do I go about coming up with an exit strategy???? Figuring out where I'm going to go until it's final, where I/we are going to go to start over, how I'm going to take care of them (assuming I become the residential parent) with even less time and much less money???? Figuring out what kind of job will allow a middle-aged woman with a Bachelor of Arts to feed three kids????

I'll do it on my own. I don't want his dammm money. If we get child support, it goes in a college fund.

Considering his prohibition on me learning any kind of trade and my complete aversion to the white collar culture, what can I do???? How can I get the training so I'm able to start work immediately???? Can a nurse's aide or home health aide keep three kids warm and fed if she is very frugal????
Depends on where you live, and the pay scale at the facility. Most places don't pay much more than minimum for aides. Start an RN program; at some point (it varies) you would be able to sit for your N-CLEX LPN (or LVN if you live in Texas or California), that way you would be able to work part time as an LPN, with a substantial raise over an aide. Until that time you could probably get by on grants and work/study programs (DO NOT take out student loans!) Depending on your situation, you could still be paying on those when you ship your kids off to college. You might also be able to get family help; if you do, don't let the bean counters know about it - never, ever volunteer information. The secret is: Do it now, don't put it off, with the economy probably tanking in 4 to 5 years, the sooner the better.
 

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East young man, go East!
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I'll do it on my own. I don't want his dammm money. If we get child support, it goes in a college fund.
IMHO this will make things harder. My sister did this and she doesnt get crap from her millionaire ex. Mean time, shes barely scrapping by and cant get back into the career her ex made her quit. So now shes waiting tables and dealing with a egomaniac boss. Something to think about anyhow.
 

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Land of the free my....
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Can a nurse's aide or home health aide keep three kids warm and fed if she is very frugal????
No. Sorry just a cold hard fact.

If you are going to wait for 4 more years to separate then get into a medical related program now at your local community college. Respiratory tech, x-ray tech, R.N. take anywhere from 18 mos to 2 years (pre-req's not included) to complete. Don't bother with the LVN program unless hospitals in your area are still hiring them. Here in Texas, most hospitals will no longer hire LVN's and are pushing their associate degreed nurses (ADN) to get their BSN (bachelor of science nursing).

There are still plenty of medical jobs to fill here in Texas.

With the variety of shifts available in a hospital you will have a better chance of having a "normal" home life for your kiddos.

As an example. Where I work we have a weekend plan. I work every weekend (Fri, Sat, & Sun nights 7p - 7a). I get a huge shift differential for taking this shift which is more than worth it.

I can work different shifts during the week which then puts me into overtime on the weekends, this keeps my wife at home with the kids and still leaves me with time to get things done around the house and spend valuable time with our boys.

I am always willing to help people out with questions / concerns related to nursing or the medical field. Feel free to PM me.

I hope everything works out for you, sorry to hear about the marriage.

Craig
 

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Out of the marriage, that is.

I've had it. It's over.

First question: When do I go???? Next fall, when the five years I promised myself I'd give the situation are over????

Or right after school lets out in 2014, which will be the summer before my littlest one is ready to go to school????

I view the four more years as time almost completely wasted, as I have to hear him screaming about how horribly selfish I am if I want to invest any time in anything he does not value (cleaning his house, cooking his meals, or working on a future career that is, and I quote, "acceptable for an engineer's wife").

On the other hand, if I wait, I have the luxury of being home with my kids until they go to school. He has the luxury of being with them whenever he cares to give the time through their formative years. And they have the luxury of being old enough to both understand (somewhat) and have some voice in the custody and visitation arrangements.

Next question: Since I have the luxury of planning, how do I go about coming up with an exit strategy???? Figuring out where I'm going to go until it's final, where I/we are going to go to start over, how I'm going to take care of them (assuming I become the residential parent) with even less time and much less money???? Figuring out what kind of job will allow a middle-aged woman with a Bachelor of Arts to feed three kids????

I'll do it on my own. I don't want his dammm money. If we get child support, it goes in a college fund.

Considering his prohibition on me learning any kind of trade and my complete aversion to the white collar culture, what can I do???? How can I get the training so I'm able to start work immediately???? Can a nurse's aide or home health aide keep three kids warm and fed if she is very frugal????
I've just broken up after 17 years of marriage, and I could slide my mind back to four years into what turned out to be a long-term personal hell, and I would be right where you are conceptually.

there are a lot of things you have to consider before you move, but once you do move, the road unravels in front of you and you will find it easy to follow. There will only be one path anyway for a while.

Pre-breakup. The most important thing a person can do in teh marriage, is to be sure that should they leave it, they leave it with no regrets. that they have tried their best, that they have exhausted all avenues. when the relatinoship comes back together the interest/love/passion returns... What is in the way of it coming back together?

See if you can remove those blocks before you bin the whole thing. Ask yourself what your best outcome is?

it is that the marriage turn into what works for all. that you do the growing, that he does the growing, that means you two can be happy, fit together like a zipper, and live happily ever after. What stands in the way of this? Do your thinking.

You are speaking from an emotional point of view which would make people suspect your intent. IE you're mad today but will you be mad tomorrow? I hit a point of exhausted inner peace. Well - prior to that I had quite some time of absolute suicidal despair... when it all became clear actually. Leave or die. It was damn clear even though my entire family thinks the sun shines out of his arse.... I wonder how long I stayed because I feared their censure? interesting question.

Um, after the breakup:

1. I don't know how barmy you will go but I went completely barking for a while. Lock yourself away from the world and stop paying your internet connection fees :D :D :D

2. You become euphoric, utterly euphoric - and then you crash and go right down to the bottom, and then euphoric again... beware this process. It calms down but it's very hard. after only 4 years you may not get it very badly but after 17 I sure did.

3. Don't have rants. don't have screamfests. Once it's over it's over. Any ranting you want to do you better do inside the marriage.

4. Make life easy and convenient re separation of assets, access to the children. No matter what back him up with the children. No matter what help them buy his birthday presents, fathers day presents. If you play things any other way you will mess the kids up horribly.

5. do not be surprised if once it's all over he is far more interested in the children. Do not self-satisfactorily say 'huh, that'll pass and he'll go back to his old self' - you must be positive from now on, and say 'gosh, this breakup has helped him as well as me. Looks like it's the best thing all round'

Whether you think any of this is true or not, you gotta stand by it. Sounds like an intense warning... I guess what I found was that my girlfriends would make very negative comments, very dangerous hate comments... you MUST not allow this. And if you don't, you'll find that breaking up is nothing like as hard to do as some say.

cheers, bridgette.
 

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Actually upon rereading your OP I am not happy.

If you are not prepared to stay in the marriage in good faith, then leave now and take the consequences. I am seriously unhappy with your plan, as it smacks of selfishness.

Stay and do your best to fix it - and remember you are not a finished person, sometimes you can be wrong just as he can. Do you shut him down when he tries to discuss? You do not sound weak. You do not sound like a victim. You sound like a young woman who's fed up but where's the emotion in this?

did you love him? Did he love you?

Have you given him a fair chance to express his side of things, where he stands, what he feels?

you need to grow in the first 10 yrs of kids... a woman has an enormous amount of growing to do but your marriage is completely ruined if you are simply sitting there, taking his money, biding your time before serving yoru own self interest.

A marriage is about 'us' not about 'me' and 'him'. You will have no functional relationships until you experience what I mean.

Sorry for the hard word but ... your life is at stake, and so are the lives of your kids. Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind. You are no more finished than he is. Teach him how to be kind by being kind yourself and don't let yourself get messed about by the Western Feminist teachings that leave every woman who raises her own children feeling liek she's missing out, has let the side down, has somehow sold out.

Beware it. That 'me' type feminism is for single women. You have to grow out of it to become a part of a family.

dire warning lol. all my love and best wishes though, the 20s suck totally. bridgette.
 

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Well, I'm new... so I think I'll stick to something I know.. Nursing.

Nurse aides make about what the kids working at McDonalds make in your area.. and the work is back breaking.. most states still have license for LPN or LVN (lisensed practical nurse or licensed vocational nurse)... some states were phasing them out but with the new health care reform many many hospitals are quickly phasing them back in... a friend of mine interviewed at a hospital recently than had an all RN staff 3 years ago but now is 50% RN and 50% LPN. Times they are achangin' LPN/LVN usually make about $4.00/hr more than aides (sometimes more)

RNs are where it's at though... you start out at 18-20/hr and very quickly move up to 23-25/hr.. I have many many friends that make more than 100,000/yr. I love being a nurse.. but I do think you really have to love helping people, talking to people, being with people at their worst (dying) and at their best (giving birth)... it's a most honorable profession... and should not be entered into solely for the bucks but also for the blessings (both receiving and giving)

I'm sorry that you're going through this and would encourage you, if you haven't already, to seek counseling either from a professional, a clergy or a close friend who's an "iron sharpens iron" kind of friend and won't just tell you what you want to hear. Ending a marriage is a bigger decision (to me) than beginning one and should be approached humbly, slowly and with great respect - unless you and your children are in danger - in that case, get out now.

Good luck with your decision... wisdom... peace...
 

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If your husband is hurting you or your children, then get out tonight. Go to a shelter or the police.

If not, then I believe that you have a moral obligation to stay in the marriage until your children graduate from high school. Your obligation is to your children first.
 

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Harming is not a clearcut word. I think it is harming to children to see their Mother yelled at, its certainly harming her! It is not physical harm, but iti s harm.

By staying and taking that treatment she is teaching her sons to yell at their future wives and her daughter to expect to be yelled at. How is that being a good parent?

For me to stay in such a marriage, the husband would have to learn or relearn respect and courtesy for me. If he has had years of yelling and dictating what she can or cannot do, that will be very hard to acheive. It is worth trying, including counseling. (If you try to get counseling and he won't do it, that is ammunition for you in a divorce court)

I'd probaly get the nursing/teaching/welding or whatever training while not taking his abuse for as much of the next 4 years as possible. Life becomes much easier for working parents when children are in school. OP, look into finances. The cost of renting a place for 6, utilities, groceries, car and incidentals are more then you know, or you wold understand you will need every penny of child support you can get.

Only my opinion, of course. I'm the sort of person who would be toe to toe with him, exchanging yell for yell if my husband tried to tell me what I could or could not do as a profession. If he put me down - he would be doing his own laundry and cooking his own food.
 

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Let's not get into 'what constitutes spousal abuse' because this isn't a case of abuse.

She has said he hollers at her - well I can bet she hollers at him. They're equals in this unless you know otherwise. To prop someone up telling them how abused they are is

(a) incredibly disempowering for them; and
(b) confuses them.

We've already got a generation of people with false senses of entitlement. don't teach the next generation they should never have a voice raised against them as well because sometimes voices raise. It's a sign of stress. It's a sign of frustration and emotion.

In short, it's often a sign of a real person desperate to be heard.

And yes: you can have two real people in this state, yelling hard at the perspex wall between them. Someone needs to get rid of teh perspex wall is all, and if that is done the children get an example not of dysfunction, but of trial, and finally success.

All's well that ends well.
 

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old hand
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She has said he hollers at her - well I can bet she hollers at him.
I too wonder what life/marriage has been like for him the last several years.
And yes: you can have two real people in this state, yelling hard at the perspex wall between them. Someone needs to get rid of teh perspex wall is all, and if that is done the children get an example not of dysfunction, but of trial, and finally success.

All's well that ends well.
Here it is folks ... the best advice on the internet.

Well said Bridgie.
 

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Raving Loony
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Life's been crappy for him too. I know it. It hurts. That's about 33.33% of the reason I've come to believe it would be best to let it go.

Neither of us likes being strapped to the other one's values.

Neither of us wants to throw it away. Love is still there. Sometimes I think it would be easier if it were not, if one or the other or both of us could be brutally honest and purely pragmatic.

I guess that would be my department. Mental health people can say whatever they want. Aspergers' is a blessing.

Oh God I am so confused. He is too. This SUCKS.
Thanks for all your input. I'm posting here because I may disagree with a lot of y'all, but I respect the vast majority of you. Can't talk to my friends because they're all on my side (duh, they're friends). You're right; it is disempowering to be told how right you are. I never thought of it like that but you're about 80% right.

Well, we're going to go fishing (the one thing we agree on, other than loving the kids) and try to talk to each other tonight. Somebody please say us a prayer.

How do you stop trying to be a Titus 2 wife (because I'm not, and he says he doesn't want one, or anyway both of us picked the wrong person for that kind of relationship) without turning into a slobbering feminazi (because I'm not, and don't want to be; I know a couple of them and they are not happy women)????

He says it would help a lot if I would drop the idea that I'm supposed to make everything about my life serve him. I can't see it stopping the conflict, but I can see it making the fights more effective. If that makes any sense.
 

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Raving Loony
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
There's got to be a way to stand up for yourself in a fight without screaming.

It shuts everything down when I hang my head and say I'm sorry and I'll fix it all. It's a great idea in theory but in practice it's going to require heavy sedation or else it's going to ultimately fail every time. It's not fair to anyone-- him or me or the girls or the boy. It is recursive and sets a bad example for all 3 kids.

Screaming doesn't work either. We used to do that; ending up forgetting what we were even fighting about.

Oh God I am so lost. I think I'll take his advice for once-- take the FlyLady outside, spray her down with Raid, have a glass of wine, and take the kids fishing.

Are there any women here who have broken out of an embedded Titus 2 model without turning into angry, man-hating, self-serving, uhhh, really unpleasant female people???? I don't want to be that kind of person. It hurts other people and makes it hard to look in the mirror. That also is not a good example for any of the kids.
 

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Raving Loony
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
And-- hey PrincessK, what do I do about that???? That's a nasty word, but it's exactly the word I mean. I'm not supposed to self-censor but the filter lets it through. I guess a good thesaurus would be helpful.
 
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