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Brain storming is when you have a group of people. One of them has a notepad, but in this case its the forum. One person throws out some ideas, then the others take those ideas and run with them, throwing out their own ideas. The person with the notepad writes down the ideas.

After the brain storming is done, the notes are reviewed and the suggestions are sorted through.

This topic is your seed stock pile.

GO!

 

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I assume by "stock pile" you are refering to seeds for planting as opossed to seeds for food storage

Well, we all know by now that we need to stay away from hybrids for planting

the questions is how do we know what is or is not hybrid.

Where can I purchase 500 pounds of non hybrid seeds for planting. Lots of places to get a oz or a pound but I know of no place for the bulk

If you plant a non hybrid seed to grow more seeds, how do you prevent the hybrid from polinating the non hybrid in your fields.

Sort of lost my train of thought of where I was going. But I am sure you get the idea.

later
wayne
 

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Technically all heirlooms were hybrid at some point. It's just that this particular hybrid consistently puts out the same type of plant/fruit. My take on it is this. I plan on buying seed for future gardens. This will be as much heirloom as I can make it. But for these next couple years I'm not going to turn my nose up at hybrids that can boost production. I'm not going to be going all that large as far as garden size or diversity. So I'm going to look at anything that will give me a good output. I'm not going to worry about harvesting seeds right now, I'll give that another year or two.

Now as to storage of your survival seeds, I don't know. I hear so many conflicting tips that I'm not sure what's the best way. I'm guessing a dark cool place in a paper bag will be good for year to year. Obviously all seeds are winter survivable, else we'd have no plants, so I would say seeds in the freezer is okay. as to whether they need oxygen, dunno. yes they're living things, but plants poop oxygen, so I don't think its necessary. are there other things in the air seeds need, maybe. But then again, a seed is supposed to be a self-contained "life bunker" for the plant. shouldn't it be able to lie dormant? Isn't it warmth and moisture an indicator that triggers it to consume its stores and begin expanding to seek out further nourishment. If that's so, shouldn't it be that in a cold dry storage a seed would keep indefinitely?
 

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I am planning a first garden, or at least the capability to grow one if need be.

In another thread there was a list of seed suppliers. I picked one in Maine (Johnny's Seeds) as that is where I will have my garden and they sell only seeds that have been field tested in Maine. I am on the coast where the hardiness zone (5b) is not that bad, but figured it was better to have ones proven to grow there (all zones)(but they will also grow elsewhere although you may want ones that can thrive in longer growing season).

So my point is not only do you need heirloom seeds you also need varieties that will grow in your climate. Most states agricultural departments can help as to which varieties are suitable.

Johnny's Seeds has a special page for heirloom seeds. Their seeds are also coded. I think F1 means it is a hybrid. No code means it is heirloom or at least open pollenated.

They are out of stock of some things. I was interested to see some said: seed stock failed. Some things, like raspberries cannot be ordered until after November and are not shipped until next year. They do not sell fruit trees (I wanted to add apple trees.)

I picked the ones I wanted and then called customer service and they went through it and confirmed my choices were heirloom.

Here's the link:

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/search.aspx?heirloom=1
 

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If you have land I suggest planting trees (nuts, fruits) easier to maintain. Also plant some of your seeds and let natural selections take control. Leave your pants do not take care of them harvest the stronger ones and repeat the next year. When disaster strikes you will have strong hardy seeds adapted to your climate. If you live in colder climates (like me) I suggest some evergreen trees (pine spruce etc..)the needles are good for vitamin C (you can make a tee with them). Some seeds can be stored in the freezer for long periods but not all.
 

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The person I spoke with at Johnny's said theirs would last 2 to 3 years and the most important thing was to keep them dry.

Anyway in Quebec your are faced with even a colder clime than I. Besides apple trees, what fruit or nut trees do you recommend? I am especially interested in what nut trees
 

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I have not heard many mentions of what to buy (a few exeptions like pine). Any ideas?
tomatoes? corn? I would assume you would want something that grows pretty fast and is a hardy plant if your relying on it for food.
 

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Again I suggest that you contact your state's agricultural department, or your state university's agricultural extension department.

Here's a link to the one for vegetables for Maine. You can download it for free.

http://extensionpubs.umext.maine.edu/ePOS?this_category=67&store=413&item_number=2190&form=shared3%2fgm%2fdetail.html&design=413&__session_info__=Y7NDdndMvs6V8L9I3%2bh%2fbMAJ5jUtKulmFbjoavOLC9%2bXdmI21aPGyVz7kxxYnD%2fKhSY8RALvd3Fn86UP6HCGvalXolo%2fnPlK4hGQl3CxkO2sVazVhcZapA%3d%3d

Maine's hardiness zones range from 5b to 3a so seemingly most of these are going to be viable for a wide swath through the heartlands/plains up to the Canadian border.

As for corn, it takes a lot of room. I understand the minimum number of rows you need for pollination is three and preferably four.
 

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Seed Stocks: (IMO)

-Store open pollinated varieties for continued production

-Store hybrids for disease resistance and high yields
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

-Store varieties that may be useful in the case of a "Nuclear Winter"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

-Research each seed and label them: time to harvest, condition preference, size of plant, determinate?, vining?, bush?, productivity?

-Label seeds with a generation number for reduced the risk of inbreeding depression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding_depression

-Consider varieties of dried grains and beans for food stores that can double as seed stores

-Vacuum seal and store a portion of your seeds in the freezer for longer life and as insurance against natural disasters

-Always store a backup pack of each seed in case of crop failure or accidental cross pollination, and for generational diversity

-Don't blindly trust what the seed companies say. They are trying to make money, but we are trying to survive.
 

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Do not Vacuum seal your seeds!!! Seeds are LIVING and NEED air.
 

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It's the exact opposite. Seeds are dormant, they need air and moisture only to germinate.

Here's a laboratory test finding that moisture and oxygen greatly reduce the germination rate:
http://www.icrisat.org/Journal/volume5/Groundnut/gn4.pdf

I did not know that, never heard of it before

I just love this board. Have tried to donate but I do not have pay pal. Was going to check into it but the anti virius I have said that the certificate of the pay pal site was not correct, or some such.

later
wayne
 

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I hope this is resolved quickly as my seeds will ship tomorrow and I need to know how to store them for best longevity.

I was thinking of wrapping them in an airtight baggy with some Damp rid and storing them in my basement.

How much air do they need?

Aren't the packages they come in fairly air tight?
 

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Well the info at the link Hunterwolf supplied sheds some additional light on the subject of moisture and air:

Each seed pack is individually packaged for maximum shelf life. Here’s what we mean by that: We carefully dry each seed to the precise level of allowable moisture which “locks in” hardiness and maintains extremely long shelf life. Then, each seed package is sealed in a special foil packet with a very expensive desiccant designed to keep seeds fresh for 20 years at 70 degrees. However, if you freeze your “seed bank” you could increase the shelf life by five times or more beyond that.

(By the way, never buy seeds in plastic or paper containers. The seeds just won’t last.)

The seed packs are then vacuumed packed and placed in a special waterproof (practically indestructible) container we call a Seed Bank. We believe that this type of storage container is the absolute best way to store seeds for the long term.
 

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Just make sure your seeds are dry, that is the most important thing you can do. If you buy them from any regular seed company, they could be 30% water or 5% water. I usually like to "open air" or "brown bag" my seeds all winter when indoor humidity is around 20%. After that, they are dry enough for any typical storage or freezing. To dry them even more, you either need less humidity or more heat. Too much heat destroys viability and attaining less than 20% humidity for a long period of time is difficult to do at home. Freezing makes the dryness of seeds less important for long term storage. Ultra dry seeds last longer regardless. Do some research and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
 

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Of course we know that keeping seeds dry is paramount to germplasm viability. I will say that I found some seeds last year that had been in my mildly must basement for 6 yeas at least non-store bought, self saved. I planted them last year and I had (and I would not lie) 100% germination. Not sure what kinda variety but there were some beans/corn/okra/onion.

Now one also needs to stock up according to their zone that their in and the type of soil found in your micro-region. Differnt breeds work better in certian soils ( no matter how many chemicals you throw on em)

Take beans for instance. There are a number of types that show to do well even in poor soil and have drought resistance. There are some (in my experience) that do well only in less rich soil and limmited water.


For me there are a few winners out there that are zones 6 plus or minus.

Moon-n-Stars Watermelon
Buttecup Squach
Butternut Squach
Black Beauty Sqush (zuccini) or Grey squash (zuccini)
Pretty much any pumpkin does well here
Brandywine Tomato (each of my plants put out over 20 large fruits this year)
Staight Eight Cucumbers and Homemade Pickle Cucumbers
ANy carrot in prepared soil here. natural soil is too rocky
Turnips of all types I have tried do well inmy area even in natural soil.
Cabbage does well here if companion planting is used to deter pests.
----Three different varieties for sasonal growing. SOme tolerate diff temps
Hickory King corn does very well here with Reletively limited care compared to sweet.
Castor Bean does very well here (not for consumption (poision) used to make lamp oil
Cotton never does well here
Tobacco does well here
Hard Red Winter wheat does well here but thats about the only type that does.
Sorgum does suprisingly well here too even at higher alt. 1200feet
Mustard Greens Do well here as do other types of large leaf greens
RHubarb does quite well here
Strawberry grows here but riquire alot of taking care of from my perspective



That is just a sampleing of what i have luck with. There are others worth mention too thought.

As far as stocks I have three differnt collections.

1. Is for my personal uses and preparedness Numbers and variety is hard to say impossible to count. I am a seed nut (no pun intended) I am sure it numbers in the millions of seeds. I know I am obsessive but I dont care.

2. Is my tade stock. I have a supply of seed packs in old skoal cans. I pack them full of various greens, corn, beans, okra, tomato, cucumber, squash, peas, cowpeas, carrots, cabbage, etc. The intention here is to use these to initiate quick barter for whatever I may seek. I hope that this will limit hagling, increase speed of transactions, and prevent me from revaling my larger collections to those who were not prepared.

3. Is my charity stock, No not for the sheeple in general and not entirley charity. I have these seeds packaged into bumdles to distribute to my friends and family. It is me doing my part to help post SHTF. I can not provide for them so I will give them what I have prepared for them. And in that time I imagine they will be worth their weight in gold so in my mind it bluntyl gets me off the hook and frees me of guilt. So in theroy. I have a big heart. I know some wont understand or agree.
Also this supply is available to provide to my mountian neighbors in exchange for no imeadeate payment but a small portion of final product or some other product they may have in production like beef, goat, sheep, chickens, or milk. etc.



So this is basicaly my seed stock plan. Dont know if this is what kev was looking for but its worth sharing I guess. Cheers!
 

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Not to create an argument but

why would you want to grow watermelon or other high water requirement type of vegs in a survival situation.

Most of the high water needing plants (fruits) have almost no nutristional value.

Looks like to me, one would want to spend time and energy and resources on those plants that are high in food value.

While I am asking, in Guerilla gardening, what would be the top 5 plants that would do well.

later
wayne
 
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