I don't have any combat experience or work experience with armor but I have bought it for home/personal use. Personally, I'm not a fan of AR500. Its heavy and spalling is a definite concern. They can say it won't spall as much but it's a steel plate, it will. Also an AP round will cut it like a knife through butter.

I own 2 different vest. The 1st one I bought was a US Palm defender. It's a solid home defense best with Lv3a armor. Somehow I stole one from Midway at $150. They are more expensive now but you can find deals. Palm was selling just the vest on their website for $50 recently.

After that I bought a mayflower low profile carrier. I also bought SAPi spec Lv4 plates from bulletproofme.com. This is the vest I have by the bed. I only keep one Lv4 plate in the front and Lv3 soft armor in back.

Ceramic Lv4 plates are more expensive but I believe they are better. They aren't as heavy, are somewhat form fitting, don't spall, and will stop almost anything.

You just can't drop them.

My .02

 

ceramics actually are not as frail as youd think

 

What do you want the armor for? Everyday wear, concealed, to handle handgun or rifle rounds? That will help you decide what you need. I wear soft armor from Point Blank every day at work. I have ceramic plates in a chest rig that I wear when the situation warrants. I've never had problems with ceramic plates and they get used frequently. There are a lot of options but once you figure how you want to use it you can narrow it down. Hope that helps.

 

You can get a cheaper setup right from AR500

 

That's what I have, hopefully I'll never need it

 

In DS 1.0 all I got was a Vietnam era flack jacket.

In 2.0 I got the plates. Heavy bastards.

My recommendation- don't get shot.

 

I picked up a vest with lvl III plates from AR500 a couple years ago. I'm a small guy, 5'4" 130lbs and it's not heavy to me. If it's heavy, go work out more lol. And AR500 has some impressive review about how well it holds up against AP rounds and the spalling isn't bad with the coating and the carrier containing it. It's an excellent buy for the money.

 

The problem with plates is that people buy them for protection, but never wear them or train with them. They're heavy and depending on your carrier, bulky. As it cools off, if you have a sleek-style carrier, try wearing the armor when doing work around the house covered up by a jacket. Go for a short hike with your plates. How about just do some driving around town with your plates and carrier? They won't necessarily be comfortable, but the most important aspect is understanding the weight, maneuverability restrictions and bulk.

They should have a place in your preparations, but unless you can realistically integrate them into your bug-in or bug-out plans, they are a wasted resource.

For us, post SHTF where the threat assessment pushes us to elevate our security posture, we will have vests by the door, worn outside at all times and when traveling (if needed). I've used them in combat, my son did Basic Training this last summer and really understands the impact when worn while training, but it's just something you need to practice in order to understand how it will impact your normal activities and training.

Soft armor won't provide as much protection as plates, but is a prudent tiered approach when the threat is less evident but still provides protection against more typical non-SHTF assaults.

The AR500 plates are fine. The coating has proven to really mitigate spalling and "armor piercing" ammo is really not that prevalent; that's like saying your hard plates won't stop a .50 cal, so you just screwed...those people need to understand how to assess risk and identify the most likely threats and not what-if the least probable threats.

ROCK6

 

The problem with plates is that people buy them for protection, but never wear them or train with them. They're heavy and depending on your carrier, bulky. As it cools off, if you have a sleek-style carrier, try wearing the armor when doing work around the house covered up by a jacket. Go for a short hike with your plates. How about just do some driving around town with your plates and carrier? They won't necessarily be comfortable, but the most important aspect is understanding the weight, maneuverability restrictions and bulk.

They should have a place in your preparations, but unless you can realistically integrate them into your bug-in or bug-out plans, they are a wasted resource.

For us, post SHTF where the threat assessment pushes us to elevate our security posture, we will have vests by the door, worn outside at all times and when traveling (if needed). I've used them in combat, my son did Basic Training this last summer and really understands the impact when worn while training, but it's just something you need to practice in order to understand how it will impact your normal activities and training.

Soft armor won't provide as much protection as plates, but is a prudent tiered approach when the threat is less evident but still provides protection against more typical non-SHTF assaults.

The AR500 plates are fine. The coating has proven to really mitigate spalling and "armor piercing" ammo is really not that prevalent; that's like saying your hard plates won't stop a .50 cal, so you just screwed...those people need to understand how to assess risk and identify the most likely threats and not what-if the least probable threats.

ROCK6

Yea most threats will be handguns anyway.

I have yet to buy plates. They are expensive and require a lot of effort to research what is best. I will prolly get a set of steel plates AND a set of ceramic or composite. And I will prolly just get steel for the wife and kids.

i honestly see plates a limited use item for us. If I have them on it is likely that we are evacuating or traveling through a dangerous area. And most likely this will be by car. So the plates will be worn in a vehicle and getting to the vehicle. Think if a riot broke out in my area and we had to drive out to a BOL.

theses are situations where we are moving away from combat not to it. So while movement is an issue , it’s not like I’m wanting to be moving and fighting a lot.

in fact I may be worried as much about random or semi random gun fire as I am about anybody targeting us. If you watched the Rittenhouse videos , there where a lot of shots fired that night by other people not involved in Kyle’s gunfight. Everyone of those shots could have killed somebody , even some random person.

If a riot springs up around your workplace and you gotta move through it to get out of dodge , being armored sounds like a good idea. Not just for guns , but knives , rocks , bottled and clubs too right ? I’d much rather have a chunk of concrete or a baseball bat hit my helmet than my head.

 

Never heard of'em. Looks legit. Level IIIa is handgun plus high velocity handgun. Level III is the next step up, some rifle, smaller calibers. level IV is rifle. Better is available at ar500.com

 

Level 3 is all standard rifles. Level 4 is a rifle firing tungsten AP ammo, which you're only going to find in 30-06 left over from WW2 or .50 BMG.

 

Like other stuff, if you believe we live in an unpredictable violent world, it only makes sense to have IBA and plates for anyone in your group. Level 3, 3+ or 4 depending on your budget. IIRC 4 is only usually in ceramics.

Think of it this way, for about $100 you can have the technology that was unavailable at any cost to save your life in a firefight, that millions of Soldiers would have killed to have going into a gun battle pre 1990s... how many millions of bodies piled high from people who took a chest shot that would have been stopped by the cost of a nice meal today...

Benefits of ceramics versus steel is easy to find with some research. Comes down to durability, weight, thickness...

Yes, training is important along with general fitness.

 

I have AR500 plates in a Condor Plate Carrier and train in it almost every week. Fully loaded with 3 AR mags, IFAK, and 2.5 liter hydration bladder/pack it weighs right about 20lbs... Never have an issue wearing it or feeling bogged down by the weight! I'm relatively comfortable in it and combined with a loaded battle belt and small operating pack for patrols or 24 hour to 3 day scenarios have no problems with moving and shooting in it!

Like a few of the guys here are saying, better to have it be a part of your preps and BOB, or for home/property defense or Minuteman duties shall the time arise! And you had better be training in it, not just static range shooting, but actual movement and shooting, climbing over and under things, in and out of ravines, up and down slopes, navigating thick underbrush, etc...

So I guess to answer you initial question, here is a good value for plates! AR500 level III shooters cut plates with coating for $65 per plate =$130 for full front/back setup, then you just need to find a plate carrier you like! You can realistically get a basic setup for about $200! But obviously the sky is the limit for this with all the options out there!

Plates:
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-arm...-armor-body-armor/ar500-armor-trauma-plate-advanced-shooters-cut-asc-10x12.html

Plate carriers:
https://www.amazon.com/Condor-Outdo...1/164-1831011-9868862?ie=UTF8&qid=1477827947&sr=8-1&keywords=plate+carrier+vest

http://www.ebay.com/itm/tactical-li...-coyote-brown-rothco-55892-/381796647787?hash=item58e4da836b:g:aNsAAOSwYIxX8Wxf

Good luck!:thumb:

 

I have AR500 plates in a Condor Plate Carrier and train in it almost every week. Fully loaded with 3 AR mags, IFAK, and 2.5 liter hydration bladder/pack it weighs right about 20lbs... Never have an issue wearing it or feeling bogged down by the weight! I'm relatively comfortable in it and combined with a loaded battle belt and small operating pack for patrols or 24 hour to 3 day scenarios have no problems with moving and shooting in it!

Like a few of the guys here are saying, better to have it be a part of your preps and BOB, or for home/property defense or Minuteman duties shall the time arise! And you had better be training in it, not just static range shooting, but actual movement and shooting, climbing over and under things, in and out of ravines, up and down slopes, navigating thick underbrush, etc...

So I guess to answer you initial question, here is a good value for plates! AR500 level III shooters cut plates with coating for $65 per plate =$130 for full front/back setup, then you just need to find a plate carrier you like! You can realistically get a basic setup for about $200! But obviously the sky is the limit for this with all the options out there!

Plates:
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-arm...-armor-body-armor/ar500-armor-trauma-plate-advanced-shooters-cut-asc-10x12.html

Plate carriers:
https://www.amazon.com/Condor-Outdo...1/164-1831011-9868862?ie=UTF8&qid=1477827947&sr=8-1&keywords=plate+carrier+vest

Rothco 55892 Plate Tactical Vest - Brown for sale online | eBay

Good luck!:thumb:

How do you like the Condor plate carrier? Is Condor really bad as people say it is in terms of quality?

 

As to the OP's question, I have no experience with the site linked in the first post, but on a conceptual level I certainly feel armor is a force-enhancement. As several have said, it is all a matter of your perceived needs. I know guys who wear level 2 all day long (the classic "protect against what you carry" train of thought) and are ok with the fairly thin soft armor. It has a heat buildup, but not as bad as thicker armor. I know guys who run the steel AR500 plates during day-long training sessions, and honestly, the weight of those plates with a good carrier is not terrible. It is obvious you are wearing, but it isn't horrible. Yes, they are heavy, but they are multi-hit rated, are relatively thin considering the protection level, have good spall protection with the various liners being sprayed on by most of the manufacturers, and are pretty darn cheap. I have also seen some of the Level III poly-something plates (UHMWPE and others) and they are amazing. 3-4 pounds per plate, rifle rated (try to avoid anyone shooting 855) but they are seriously thick plates. Many carriers actually would have trouble with a poly plate and backer, I would imagine. Next you get into the ceramic world, which are relatively light, fairly thin, and incredibly expensive.

It is all a matter of tradeoffs, of checks and balances. For instance, if I lived in a not-so-good area of town, and the natives are starting to get restless but not actually a WROL situation, I would think a level II soft vest under my shirt would be a good choice if I needed to, say, drive in to fuel the car. If the world has ended and I am standing guard duty around the neighborhood/compound/etc, I would probably want level 4 plates, with all the trimmings. But don't ask me to run a mile in it.

It is just a matter of deciding which threat level you really expect, and of what activity level you expect to need to do.

 

Here are some thoughts:
1. The particular armor is overpriced, on can do much better.
2. AR500 is not good enough: chances are the bullets will get thru. M193 (not particularly powerful round) does get thru sometimes. There are dozens of civilian types of cartridges that are MUCH more potent. And, of course, there are modern military armor piercing rounds. One surely needs level 4 plates.
3. One needs to get plates with triple curve, not single curve like steel plates. I suggest to cut a plate outline out of stiff cardboard and place it against one's chest. You will see a significant gap for bullets to get under.
4. People are talking about "spall" and some coating to prevent it. Might work, rarely.
Here we come to the specific usage of the armor. Let see one puts it on while driving a vehicle. Between the curve of the plate and driver's posture, any round penetrating the windshield would kill the driver by ricochet. There are ways to improve the chance of survival by vehicle alteration and special plate attachments.
5. One can do a simple test: let your wife to to paste-up some paper on you to cover the torso. Take this shape off and lay flat. Find out the area, as accurately as possible. Then find out the area of the plate. You will see that the plate covers no more than 10% of the shape. And this is only about the torso, not the whole body. If the bullets come directly from the front while most of the body is under cover, it is not too bad.
6. One of the most importance reasons for wearing armor is protection from flying debris. The debris are as dangerous as the bullets. So plates are not nearly enough: one needs better coverage. Interceptor vest is a good beginning, provided it is used with all the options: groin protector, neck protector, shoulder and biceps protectors etc. Side plates a must. A helmet a must.

 

GG42,

I respectfully disagree.

The "curve" has as much to do with backface deformation as comfort. Some guys (gals) wear just the plate, some have a soft (some kevlar sheets) backer behind it, just to avoid getting a broken sternum from a direct frontal hit.

I don't know anyone (I don't know many to start with) who is in combat wearing full protective kit. Defusing bombs, sure, but moving around a battlefield? The old Flak vest is a bear all by itself, and I have personally seen one dumped by someone running.

I'm just not sure what you mean by openings. The plate is to protect a very small vital area, nothing more, and any amount of curves won't change that. People train to keep there arms down, to prevent a possible hit into the opening under the arm, or at least they used to. I haven't been through a course in a few years. I still do, anyway.

High angle strikes can defeat a spall coating (a nylon 66 dip coating, or similar) but it is there again for low angle hits, to prevent bullet fragments or chunks of plate from going directly up into the chin and neck area. If some goes into the meat of your shoulder, well, you'll live.

Modern plates and carriers are more about keeping professional soldiers (and police officers) "in the fight" until aid can be rendered, and that's how i think of them for civilian use as well.

Just my opinion.

 

Ivel
About the gap: let see one is wearing the plate (whether sitting in a vehicle or lying prone). If the plate has a triple curve, it hugs the chest much better, so a side shot might just slide over that curve, missing the body, while with a single curve the bullet might slide thru the gap (up to 1"!) and hit the chest.
You are still discussing the "spall". Spall is important, but ricochet is worse. And if the wearer hit with a rifle bullet in the shoulder he will surely NOT live. In fact, if hit almost anywhere, he would not live.
This a survivalist forum, and we discuss WROL situation. So there are no hospitals.
And nobody is going to move thru a battlefield wearing the whole shebang. Or rarely. He would need to wear it while defending his house though, because being hit with shards of glass, big wood splinters, chunk of concrete or metal is just as deadly as being hit with the bullet. The same applies while bugging out in a vehicle or some other, very specific situations.

 

Here's another point of thought. A vest, of any reasonable level, will only stop center mass vital areas. It's also fairly common for rounds to strike areas not covered or enter through an area not protected by the maximum area of the vest. That raises a few things to ponder.
1) are you prepared to deal with a GSW to an area not protected and knowing that quality followup care may be unavailable?
2)is the lack of movement (speed, endurance, and flexibility) worth the added weight and discomfort? This is an ongoing argument with most military so not necessarily an invalid thought.
3) Is the vest a good fit with the rest of your battle rattle? Does it interfere with your ability to function to the point where it is more hindrance than beneficial?
4) Have you added armor to other body parts such as a helmet or will someone simply avoid the vest and take a head shot?

The fact is, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is simply Avoid Being Shot. Sounds a little hokey but it's a pretty good goal. Taking a round or two in the vest STILL hurts. You may live because of the vest but if it's cracked a few ribs and you get killed laying there writhing in pain... your still dead. If you can't function or get ambushed because you sound like a jingle truck going down the trail, your still dead. If your gear is so taxing to your stamina that it drastically reduces your ability to cover ground and you run out of supplies before reaching your BOL, you could still be dead.

Body armor is always going to be a crapshoot. If you have it to defend your BOL, ok. I get that. But standing guard in it still is taxing. If you have it and expect to toss it on and roll out of your sedentary life working in the cubicle farm and didi mau 10 klicks home during shtf through the hood... good luck. You may not make it out of a high rise office building down the stairs without being half spent.

Just some food for thought.

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

 

There are certainly a lot of what its and what nots when it comes to personal body armor... The OP definitly has been given alot to consider! Everyone who has chimed in has valid points concerning choices (and their personal reasons) that one has for outfitting him or herself for protection! Personally, I feel having a minimum of front and back plates (side plates are there as well) and proper headgear is a must! But along with that I feel that one also has to accept the responsibility to learn the ins and outs of armor, regularly train in it, be in enough physical condition to not be hindered by wearing it (others may be relying on you), AND also have and seek the proper medical training and equipment to be able to take care of oneself and others if injured in it! Just my humble opinion!

That is all!:thumb:

 

if the weight is 10-15 pounds, i think thats pretty much awesome trade off

and i tell you why - back in good old days, when i was travelling to school and back, each and every day, i took my 12 pounds backpack (laptop, water and stuff) and walked 1/2 mile to train, then 1/2 mile from train to school.. BUT.. when i get bored, i was walking (fast pace) around just to listen music without buses/trains.

anyway, as a 20years old, i did not feel the backpack at all and after I put it down, I felt like a bird.. now im 10 years older... so still young enough to carry heavy weight..

i highly recommend for anyone, to train like this, put 5 pound backpack on, if you are healthy, do not worry, pain and tiredness will not kill you... it will train you.. after weeks or months, you can go as high as 15 pounds and more, and you wont even notice, its on you... eat healthy, move a lot, do not use lift, use stairs instead.. no smoke, little aclohol if you want, no problemo... health and stamina is awesome commodity.. priceless... im always laughing my ass off (but not in bad sense), when my mates (or sadly also wife), whn they have to slow down...

and on top of that, one of my leg is shorter by 1,4 inch. imagine the spine load and so... cant do much about it.. so im a proof, its more will power than anything else..

i get tired, sure i do, but the key is to PICK UP the desired and painless speed/pace and you can go pretty much to the other side of the country without stop... it's like cruising in the car at predefined speed where the MPG is at the best ratio... drink a lot (there were times I drank one full gallon per day (interior work, 77F), but now im trying les, due to kidney or so... but hydratation is important... (spasms protection)

and im only 140pounds heavy/light at 6'

and as lazy as one can be, I never go to gym, i hate it there (boring), but when the activity comes, I try to FOCUS and enjoy the path..

but im not really sure, how much % it adds up, if there will be a crossfire.. maybe its FALSE SECURITY to some... maybe it can take one two shot, and the attacker will run away thinking your hit or so... its interesting, so many outcomes...

 

My GI Joe days are over.

I've humped a lot of miles wearing full battle rattle in many states and in the sand box on multiple combat tours. It's grueling, and my body paid the price.

I don't have any illusions that most people can do this on a regular basis. It's a good workout for sure.

The real key for body armor for most people, and most people should have a set, is for stationary protection. Guarding something, like your home. If you can put it on and move around your home you're better off than the bulk of people.

Body armor isn't going to be perfect, but it does offer vital life saving protection from immediately lethal injuries that are not survivable by handguns, shotguns, and rifles.

Absent the total anarchy breakdown of the world, this gives you time to survive a gun battle. Medics can likely save you if you are hit outside the plate ares of protection (aside from head/face/neck or arteries).

For $200, that's a darn good investment - if you are of the mentality that would consider the world a violent and unpredictable place.

With a bit of training, you can don body armor and be armed in maybe 10 seconds if it's handy. That gives you a significant advantage of defeating your enemy, surviving a gun fight, and winning.

Other benefits are having a holstered weapon, magazines, and first aid kit afixed to the carrier for handy use.

So, for instance, you train that if you hear a home invasion, your wife dons the armor and grabs the phone and kids and calls 911, while you don your set and guard the bedroom door, hallway, or whatever.

 

Hey, new guy, don't resurrect 5.5 year old threads lol. stand by...….

 

Nothing wrong with resurrecting a thread!

Particularly one asking for feedback on kit. If the member being asked still pops in, they can give there opinion of use of such over time and how it held up. Or not.

How do you like the Condor plate carrier? Is Condor really bad as people say it is in terms of quality?

As far as Condor goes: The condor stuff we have has been pretty decent, and the $ saved has allowed setting up replicants. Mind, we don't have any Condor plate carriers. Multiple Condor LCS belts tho, and pouches. Pretty decent & work fine.

Other Condor stuff as well, (shirts, hats), again the savings has allowed purchasing extras of high use stuff. Stuff which, regardless of manufacturer will wear out with honest work.

 

you can buy all level protection you like though it doesn't save you from a bullet in the head sad to state..

 

Yeah but it doesn't hurt to have something if you know you have to go to battle. I plan to acquire a proper helmet, should it ever come down to it down the road.

 

nothing fielded as helmets since ww2 has had any type of bullet stoppage rating..

 

These 12 troops were only saved by their helmets

Ballistic helmet likely saved Boone police officer’s life during deadly Watauga County standoff

Think it depends on what type of bullet they're stopping, but the curved surface also helps deflect. Handguns account for about 65%+ of firearm-related homicides, and make up 36%+ of the US domestic arsenal.

According to Wikipedia anyway...

 

I think people don’t understand how difficult it is to shoot a human head sized target running/bouncing on flat ground at 50-100 yards, let alone off road, while taking incoming rounds. This isn’t a static situation.

 

This.

 

Hesco L210 Special Threat plates if you are budget minded. You can get x2 pair for (600ish) and it will stop all modern AK and AR15 ammunition. They are light and durable from a reputable brand.

 

take a round in the helmet and answer your own statements

 

So everyone in SOCOM and 99% of the tactical teams in the US use ballistic helmets just because they like the extra weight? Stop putting out disinformation. You can even google a video online of a Marine taking a sniper round to the dome in Iraq and walking away from it fine, because of his helmet.

 

My question is what other crap did the bullet hit before hitting the helmet looking at all the crap that goes onto a modern military helmet vs the grunt grade stuff fielded up to vietnam

what are we basing the ballistics on point blank range or 500+meters with a russian sniper or some form machine gun firing a single shot

Yes I have seen a number of videos on you tube though never seen anyone actually do a kill shot on a helmet to see if you could survive a head shot..

Though I have seen a few videos of people using helmets dummy targets lure a sniper out..

 

My question is what other crap did the bullet hit before hitting the helmet looking at all the crap that goes onto a modern military helmet vs the grunt grade stuff fielded up to vietnam

what are we basing the ballistics on point blank range or 500+meters with a russian sniper or some form machine gun firing a single shot

Yes I have seen a number of videos on you tube though never seen anyone actually do a kill shot on a helmet to see if you could survive a head shot..

Though I have seen a few videos of people using helmets dummy targets lure a sniper out..

We don’t have to test helmets in battle. We have laboratories that test ballistic armor. The common standard is the NIJ. There standards are rated for different levels. Most common is 3a which is basically handgun and shotgun protection. Rifle resistant helmets are gonna be kinda heavy.

helmets are also rated for fragmentation and implant protection.