The local Walmart has a bank of these things powering the store off CNG. I haven't heard whether there is a savings or not.

 

In the study it says it takes half the CNG to do the same thing your houses uses now. Looks promising, and now a year later it looks like it might hit main street.

:thumb:

 

It would take President Obama to knock down some doors at GE and area 51 to give us the real goods on cheap energy. Did you catch that this research was already done by big buisness. I wonder how the big power co and GE are going to stop this from hitting the market. Now the reverse engineering will start. At $3000.00 per unit for one house I'd like to have one just to get off the grid. I will take my chances with the natural gas co.

 

its about time. I have been waiting on one of these things since last year.

it will run off of ANY hydrocarbon source, in other words anything that burns.

theoretically this means wood gas.

 

This is heavily Dependant on natural gas... so read this from 2003

Natural gas supply in North America in decline, and no early simple solution is anticipated.

http://www.mnforsustain.org/natural_gas_supply_in_decline_youngquist_duncan_1203.htm#Impact

 

This is heavily Dependant on natural gas... so read this from 2003

Natural gas supply in North America in decline, and no early simple solution is anticipated.

http://www.mnforsustain.org/natural_gas_supply_in_decline_youngquist_duncan_1203.htm#Impact

Thats an old graph, I havew been reading lately that CNG is our last source of energy that we seem to have alot of.

I dont know how true that is but I just recently heard this.

We'll just have to wait and see. I would like to see whatever alternative technology come from the US, we could sure use some manufacturing base again.

 

yes it is old

much like oil we will never run out but to get the fuel will become much more expensive
requiring more energy and resources to recover less gas/oil so while reserve number may increase access may not.

The technology used "fracking" is environmentally devastating

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/06/fracking-in-pennsylvania-201006



more info
http://www.beg.utexas.edu/techrvw/presentations/talks/tinker/tinker01/page05.htm

 

It gets worse....This is from today FOX news.

Earthquakes in Arkansas May Be Man-Made, Experts Warn

At issue is a practice called hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," in which water is injected into the ground at high pressure to fracture rock and release natural gas trapped within it.

"That isn't a place where you usually have earthquakes," he told FoxNews.com. When the West Virginia Oil and Gas Commission forced the disposal companies to cut back on their injection rate and pressure, the professor said, the earthquakes there seem to have dissipated.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/01/fracking-earthquakes-arkansas-man-experts-warn/
​

 

saw these last year also, and this is the first I have heard about them since, I guess the power company is trying to buy the technology and bury it right now

 

Thats what they might be trying to do. I hope not. but it is in the hands venture capitalists so who knows. I would think the long dollar would be better then the short one.

 

interesting Bosco.

Anyway,...the Bloom box is a green energy source based but the raw fuel natural gas is increasingly is not really;

-Green with the technology to retrieve it !
-Sustainable and able to grow with respect to future demand

This mirrors many alternative energy systems such as hybrid cars. The energy efficiency of a hybrid vehicle is largely offset (relative to conventional petroleum car)by the energy needed and pollution generated to manufacture that hybrid vehicle.


I'm sure some of you have seen the food demand for the future 50% increase by 2030 if not here one article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7951838.stm

Energy & food are tied together. Energy is required to grow, harvest, ship and store our modern food systems (excluding environmental & geopolitical factors for a moment ) there is a direct correlation between energy and food prices & energy and food demand/consumption so this correlation will manifest itself in a proportionality increase in energy demand allong with food. Barring major advancements in energy consumption and theres limits, lets say we can make a 20% increase in all energy consumption efficiency today we would still need to increase energy output by 40% in the next 18 years to meet demand and thats a very conservative number!

 

I see your points.

I do believe the Bloom Box has great potential and its a good start but as the Saint said it does run on any carbon based fuel, so this would be the x factor for this energy.

If we wanted to do a real easy cut without doing anything we could al use Diesel, that would save almost 38 billion barrels of Oil a year without doing anything.

Im taking the optimist role on this one, I want it to work so therefore it will.....

 

I want it to work too! The only problem is optimism can if not careful clouds reality. look at all the sheeple in the supermarket food will always be plentiful! and government will take care of us !


Any cut to oil consumption in this country will be offset by just china.

- China's need for energy is projected to increase by 150% by 2020.
- China's oil consumption is growing seven times faster than the U.S.
-China at current rates will surpass the total number of cars in the U.S. by 2030

this doesn't include projected demand in the rest of Asia or the world.

http://www.iags.org/china.htm


There was a discussion on the Picken's plan and wind/solar energy some choose not to see the problem and some get it, the forecast, number are right there IF you choose to look at them...it's disturbing really.

a couple key points to think about

-Tomorrows energy must be built today but thats not really happening.

-The only technology to generate power this country is Nuclear

-Alternative energy wont cut it and many are not really green (due to production issues )

 

Natural gas is plentiful. Natural gas is plentiful.
There are frozen methane pockets in the oceans that rival anything the saudi's have. The US is stalling on opening up this form of energy. MY guess is big oil and the US are draining out the dino oil before they switch over. Oh and Louisiana has huge supplies of natural gas.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124104549891270585.html

 

The issue isn't the amount but accessing that energy and increase in future demand

 

I agree with most of what you are saying but

Alternative energy wont cut it and many are not really green (due to production issues )

I mean noting will be truely "green" if this is part of the equation I think greener would be more appropriate.

But again I think there is a difference between realist and pessimist and your reply borders between the two.... No offence rugster. I see your points

But youre right about China, they would seive any surplus but they also dont have the market base we do. We will always need fossil fuels in some aspect. Reducing it demand I think the Bloom box is a good start. and Diesel use.

 

But again I think there is a difference between realist and pessimist and your reply borders between the two.... No offence rugster.

Fair enough !

We will always need fossil fuels in some aspect. Reducing it demand I think the Bloom box is a good start. and Diesel use.

we not solving energy problems in this country primarily because we are being "GREEN WASHED"

There's really a energy paradox. All alternative energy needs hydrocarbons from petroleum or methane for creation and as with the bloom box to work. It's been calculated it takes abut 1/2 barrel of oil energy & materials to make one solar panel and often the rallying cry is a reduced dependence on oil?

Here's the reality, The USA only generates 1% of our electricity with petroleum Meaning the Bloom box would offset virtually no oil consumption and solar panels create a net increase in oil consumption and pollution. To offset this you need to manufacture cars (with oil ) that run on electricity so you can save oil ? This isn't green or free from oil dependence.

the only bright spot with the Bloom Box is brining electricity generation closer to the end user and it's more efficient generation it doesn't solve our energy issues.

 

So much power is lost in transmission. That was one of the big reasons that we didn't stick with DC power like Edison would have wanted and went with Tesla's generation and transmission of AC. With DC we would have to have booster stations to keep that electron flowing down the pike. If every house used a small generator the energy loss would be overcome. A friend of mine is an electrical engineer and working with a local power company. He emphasized in power transmission. He said that by the time the power generated by Palo Verde Nuclear (nucular?) Generating Station was transmitted everywhere it goes something like 60% of the energy is lost.

 

As with electricity, so the same with democracy. Ideally, locally generated sources of power, appropriate to a particular region, make the most sense. Some areas get more sun, more wind, have much more geothermal activity closer to the surface, etc. The problem is that Big Oil, Big Nukes and Big Energy in general can't adapt locally. They see the world as a uniform grid, and power is something only to be rented perpetually by customers, never owned.

Their whole business model is predicated on people not having the ability to generate their own electricity locally. It's based on generating it at a distance, the largest scales possible, and charging them to rent it.

I don't know whether these Bloom Boxes are the real deal, or if they'll simply jack the price of natural gas into the stratosphere, but the concept at least is a step in the right direction.

 

Youre absolutely right millertyme, thats why this Bloom Box is so neat, it can be a household power system eliminating the transmission of the energy.

If we get off the grid and start using DC is the way to go. most, if not all appliances run on DC, they are transformed on site in the appliance. Just get rid of the transformation and use the DC directly.

makes sense to me, but it will killed by the big utilities this is what the fear the most. Independent power.

 

There has been a uncontrolled coal fire in PA since 1962, you would think they should try and tap that already burning source to create electricity, This just seems like a no brainer, but what do I know.....=\

I see your point, I would hope this mindset would change trying to offset some of that coal use, and use more CNG but I understand you dont get something for nothing.

We shall see what happens with this Bloom Box, I really do hope it works. It would look nice in my BOL.....

 

The South Cañon Number 1 Mine fire just outside Glenwood Springs, CO has been burning since 1910. It was the primary reason for the large forest fire in 2002 that took several residents homes.

Can you imagine a 100+ year coal mine fire?

 

If I can get a bloom box for 3 grand and it lasts a decade I will have no electric bill maybe for 5 of 10 years.

Electric bill per year $1500 X 2 = $3000 actually it is probably closer to $2000 a year

LP gas to run bloom box for 10 years ?
Bloom box repairs per decade?

Might not be a big savings but I would like to have one.

Must cut down on energy use , must cut down on energy use , must cut down

trees to heat my house, must get some sloar panels , must get a wind turbine, must get a bloom box.

 

i saw this show late last year. If I remember correctly one of the drawbacks to the technology discussed is that so far is that it can't tolerate dust. not too applicable for most places in USA outdoors. Certainly not desert or farm country! Not sure how you fix that, hope they are working on it.

 

That little video talks about this, the inventor said he reversed the flow of the air and that seemed to help. I would hate for this to get stopped for dust, that would stink.

Thanks

 

Its not a perfect model, but its a good start. We can find it here, and we dont need to depend on foreign oil as much.

There are plus sides to the equation as well. You're never going to get something for nothing.

 

-NO, the bloom box offsets virtually no oil consumption because current electricity is generated with only 1% petroleum. To frack NG we will need to use more ...oil. I'm not knocking it i'm just pointing out it's not a real solution and it's not entirely "green"

I still dont see a problem. The methane is on the sea floor waiting for BIG OIL to drill some heaters into the ice cube and thaw some electricity. For those of the right wingers screaming there is no such thing as global warming and drill baby drill this should not be a problem. I say scrap crude oil and start changing the US over to methane. The cool thing is that the big oil can do whatever they want offshore in relative secrecy and I get my fuel cheap. The storage tanks for this fuel should be stored in barges offshore. Fuel farms. Because the fuel supply is so large this should drop the price of fuel considerably.
http://armageddononline.tripod.com/methane.htm
there is more than 200,000 trillion cubic feet of this gas at the bottom of the ocean; 80,000 times conventional natural gas reserves.

The problem is it's at the bottom of the ocean. let's frame the issue another way not amount but in terms of BTU's needed to recover Btu's

-lets say to get 1 billion Btu of natural gas out of a conventional well and say it takes 50 million Btu's ..this is the energy needed to drill, transport people and equipment, get that fuel into the system ect... the accumulative energy it takes so you can turn the burner on your stove and have gas. follow me?

-In terms of Btu's the cheap easy to access to hydrocarbons are becoming fewer and what is left are hard to get often smaller sources..thats where Fracking comes in! it's costing more so instead of 50 million Btu's generating 1 billion Btu of natural gas it's 100, 500 million or more net Btu's return is less.

-The top source of Btu's to acquire the NG Btu's is oil

-So, we are using more oil to get lower net Btu of "green" natural gas..how green is that?

-There is currently no solution for this paradox the only thing close in Nuclear energy

I don't have a solution, i'm simply pointing out the problems!

 

Right now if I understand correctly right now goes for $700,00
with a hopeful $3000/ in ten years.
Not nearly efficient than appears.....



The only reason they went public is that apparently some of the investors said basically go public or they back out.
That being the reason no household prototype is available, they don't have one.

Great for the big guys with deep pockets who can take advantage of tax incentives and commercial rates on NG

At this point I don't see it as something reachable for the average Joe for some time to come if ever.


http://www.bnet.com/blog/energy/bloom-energy-behind-the-big-announcement-disappointing-reality/3215



http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bloom-vs.-solar-which-one-is-best/

 

http://www.bnet.com/blog/energy/bloom-energy-behind-the-big-announcement-disappointing-reality/3215



http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bloom-vs.-solar-which-one-is-best/

Both of these articles are over a year old.


This is from the initial going public, they have already improved the technology and are ready to release it into the market on a bigger scale. Will it make it to the average Joe, I dont know. We will just have to wait and see.

 

Hmm?
Get enough people in a small community interested....

 

that is the line I am going to pursue. I will hopefully get in the loop as a reseller. I should get details for there business model/s, future projections etc.... We'll see what happens.


Thanks.....:thumb:

 

10kw/h isn't a whole lot for an average home in the desert during summertime. My parent's house is about 2100 square feet and they have a pool. Their summertime usages can spike at upwards of 8kw/h

How would this work out if you had a small farm where you could trap and consume the methane from your animals' waste? hmm...

 

I would like to know what kind of interest there is in the Survivalist market, I will pitch a sales plan to these folks, I live close enough to them to at least try. I dont want to try it if there is only a few people interested though.

The Technology is scalable, thats also a nice part about it. they can stack as many SOFC as needed. i.e per application.

 

I'm interested in this

http://catalyticdepolymerization.org/


This doesn't really solve the World's energy problem no one technology will but it turns waste into oil.

giving us time,..precious time we have wasted non solutions