[cranky1950]

Wouldn't it be somewhat better to treat your water with bleach before adding to a drip filter. Add it to the bucket let it sit for half hour then dump water into the filter. That way you would filter out the chlorine from the water instead of drinking it. I'm not a great fan of ingesting halogen elements.

Just wondering if anyone here has seen any data on this subject.

 

[MikeK]

You can let the water air out before drinking it and the chlorine will evaporate out. This saves the filter from being loaded up with it.

 

[Sonal]

Friend
A nice question asked by you i really like this question. Its very useful for me. When taking water from a lake or pond, take water under the surface, but near the surface. Check the rate of water that is flowing into and out of the lake.
Thanks for this nice question.

 

[vicdotcom]

I am not sure that most filters will get rid of bleach. Once in the water, it becomes a solution. There is nothing to filter. Can it also possibly damage some filter elements such as hollow fibers with long term usage with bleach?

 

[gkmiami]

Wouldn't it be somewhat better to treat your water with bleach before adding to a drip filter. Add it to the bucket let it sit for half hour then dump water into the filter. That way you would filter out the chlorine from the water instead of drinking it. I'm not a great fan of ingesting halogen elements.

Just wondering if anyone here has seen any data on this subject.

It's best, especially with dirtier water, to add your bleach after filtering. The chlorine will be used up on anything foreign in the water including the dirt particles that aren't particularly a threat. This means you'll have to use more chlorine to get to the bad critters and still risk missing some. The cleaner the water is (filtered) the less chlorine needed, and the better the chance of having properly disinfected water.

gk

 

[stephpd]

The plant I work at does a little of both. I do agree that just adding it to raw water will increase the amount of Chlorine needed, much of it going to combine with metals that have nothing to do with why we want to add Chlorine to water. So we add Chlorine after floc/ sedimentation so much of it isn't wasted on dirt, slit, clay, and metal ions that are in the water.

It's also added after filtration so that we maintain a minimal level throughout the system.

As someone that also worked at swimming pools I don't think you can just 'air out' all the Chlorine. It takes several hours for the free Chlorine to burn off when exposed to the sun.

Two things I'd like to stress is contact time and measuring. Some here advocate 1/2 hour, yet where I work they insist on at least 4 hours.(that's also why we add Chlorine prior to filtration.) Without measuring the Chlorine levels you have no idea what the concentration is, or if you have any at all.

What you want is a concentration of at least .5ppm after the 4 hours of contact time. You also don't want a high level. We are required to inform the state and the CDC if we exceed 5ppm. What we strive for is somewhere in between these two points and set a range between 1-3ppm. But it's been found that even a 1ppm isn't enough to get a .5ppm at the furthest points in the distribution system so we strive for 2ppm.

I also don't undersatnd some folks dislike for Chlorine in the water. I do know that when it combines with carbon and some other things it can forn trihalomethanes that are suspected carcinogens, so those are somewhat bad. But drinking water that hasn't been treated with Chlorine increases you risk of getting sick/dead. I'm willing to live with the former but getting Motezuma's revenge or dying from dysenerty doesn't sound like a better solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_diseases

 

[MikeK]

I am not sure that most filters will get rid of bleach. Once in the water, it becomes a solution. There is nothing to filter. Can it also possibly damage some filter elements such as hollow fibers with long term usage with bleach?

Most charcoal filters will bind chlorine. But I don't think I'd want chlorine in my filter. That's some pretty corrosive stuff. Also, bleach and calcium hypochlorite both leave behind a salt dissolved in the solution which will also build up over time in the filter. I think the best idea might be to chlorinate after filtering. Then let it sit until the chlorine evaporates out if you don't want to drink it.

 

[vicdotcom]

Most charcoal filters will bind chlorine. But I don't think I'd want chlorine in my filter. That's some pretty corrosive stuff. Also, bleach and calcium hypochlorite both leave behind a salt dissolved in the solution which will also build up over time in the filter. I think the best idea might be to chlorinate after filtering. Then let it sit until the chlorine evaporates out if you don't want to drink it.

Yea activted charcoal is about the only thing I can think of that will clear out pesticides and chemicals. Bad thing is that it doesn't last long and you don't really know when they are at saturation level.

 

[cranky1950]

Come to think of it if you want to get rid of chlorine it probably is better to use a Brita like filter after treating filtered water. Better to use up a 5 dollar filter rather than your 30 dollar ceramic filter.

I have to prep play sand for a pre-filter, We have nothing but bull tallow clay here and that is no good for filtering water.

 

[gkmiami]

The plant I work at does a little of both. I do agree that just adding it to raw water will increase the amount of Chlorine needed, much of it going to combine with metals that have nothing to do with why we want to add Chlorine to water. So we add Chlorine after floc/ sedimentation so much of it isn't wasted on dirt, slit, clay, and metal ions that are in the water.

It's also added after filtration so that we maintain a minimal level throughout the system.

As someone that also worked at swimming pools I don't think you can just 'air out' all the Chlorine. It takes several hours for the free Chlorine to burn off when exposed to the sun.

Two things I'd like to stress is contact time and measuring. Some here advocate 1/2 hour, yet where I work they insist on at least 4 hours.(that's also why we add Chlorine prior to filtration.) Without measuring the Chlorine levels you have no idea what the concentration is, or if you have any at all.

What you want is a concentration of at least .5ppm after the 4 hours of contact time. You also don't want a high level. We are required to inform the state and the CDC if we exceed 5ppm. What we strive for is somewhere in between these two points and set a range between 1-3ppm. But it's been found that even a 1ppm isn't enough to get a .5ppm at the furthest points in the distribution system so we strive for 2ppm.

I also don't undersatnd some folks dislike for Chlorine in the water. I do know that when it combines with carbon and some other things it can forn trihalomethanes that are suspected carcinogens, so those are somewhat bad. But drinking water that hasn't been treated with Chlorine increases you risk of getting sick/dead. I'm willing to live with the former but getting Motezuma's revenge or dying from dysenerty doesn't sound like a better solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_diseases

+1 This is pretty much how I remember it. I use to be our comunity's filter plant operator and quit about the time the trihalomethane issue was coming to light. Now the EPA has an order on our water system to reduce the levels of THM. I'm surprised that your still able to chlorinate before the filter as that adds to the levels of THM. Like you, I don't understand the bad rap chlorine gets from some crowds. You don't have to have a carbon filter to remove the free chlorine from your water. If you think it's enough of an issue you only have to fill a couple of gallon pitchers and rotate them through after they set for a few hours. I don't believe the carbon filters are able to extract any of the THM anyway.

gk

 

[TakeYasuma]

You shouldn't be afraid to drink purified water, you should be afraid to drink water that hasn't been purified.

 

[stephpd]

+1 This is pretty much how I remember it. I use to be our comunity's filter plant operator and quit about the time the trihalomethane issue was coming to light. Now the EPA has an order on our water system to reduce the levels of THM. I'm surprised that your still able to chlorinate before the filter as that adds to the levels of THM. Like you, I don't understand the bad rap chlorine gets from some crowds. You don't have to have a carbon filter to remove the free chlorine from your water. If you think it's enough of an issue you only have to fill a couple of gallon pitchers and rotate them through after they set for a few hours. I don't believe the carbon filters are able to extract any of the THM anyway.

gk

I haven't heard of any problems that we may have with THM's. We're not under control of the EPA but the CDC and the State Board of Health. As is, our biggest concern is maintaining a 3log removal of TDS when the waters fairly clean. When it rains and we have to deal with mud it changes to 4log removal, but that's not a problem.

There are some plans in the works to do away with the rapid sand filters and install membrane units. They make cleaner water but need more pumps (electric controls) and could be higher maintenance. But I've heard about this for 7 years. The money was appropriated before this recession, but with everyone hurting for money I've heard that it better be spent soon or they'll take it back to balance the budgets.

The plant is close to 100 years old and still makes perfectly acceptable water within the Fed and State guidelines. My guess is there are many places in the country that are having difficulty staying within the guidelines as is so the Fed isn't pushing for more stringent ones.

As an example the maximum for turbidity for finished water is .3 NTU. We also have a 'gentleman's agreement' that we'll stay below .1 NTU 99% of the time. And we do this with our average being about.03 NTU. That's pretty good for something so old.

About 10 years ago they went through and implemented something called 'advanced coagulation'. They moved around where some of the chemical feeders injected stuff (changed what they use for floc) and it seems to have worked out fine.

 

[MikeK]

I haven't heard of any problems that we may have with THM's. We're not under control of the EPA but the CDC and the State Board of Health. As is, our biggest concern is maintaining a 3log removal of TDS when the waters fairly clean. When it rains and we have to deal with mud it changes to 4log removal, but that's not a problem.

There are some plans in the works to do away with the rapid sand filters and install membrane units. They make cleaner water but need more pumps (electric controls) and could be higher maintenance. But I've heard about this for 7 years. The money was appropriated before this recession, but with everyone hurting for money I've heard that it better be spent soon or they'll take it back to balance the budgets.

The plant is close to 100 years old and still makes perfectly acceptable water within the Fed and State guidelines. My guess is there are many places in the country that are having difficulty staying within the guidelines as is so the Fed isn't pushing for more stringent ones.

As an example the maximum for turbidity for finished water is .3 NTU. We also have a 'gentleman's agreement' that we'll stay below .1 NTU 99% of the time. And we do this with our average being about.03 NTU. That's pretty good for something so old.

About 10 years ago they went through and implemented something called 'advanced coagulation'. They moved around where some of the chemical feeders injected stuff (changed what they use for floc) and it seems to have worked out fine.

Your information on the water threads is invaluable! I've learned more from your posts than I had picked up on my own in years.

Please keep it up!

 

[stephpd]

Your information on the water threads is invaluable! I've learned more from your posts than I had picked up on my own in years.

Please keep it up!

Thanks.

I've spent most of my life involved with water quality in some way or another. I still don't know enough, though. Started out as a Machinist Mate in the Navy and part of that was running an evaporator. Then 15 years in sewage treatment as a mechanic. Then 4 years as a pool mechanic for the city. Finally to the water department, first as a mechanic, then the last 6 years as an operator.

It's this last job that opened my eyes about what it takes to make potable water. For the most part it's a baby sitting job, just taking some basic tests ( the system works real well if everything's in range). Our lab takes many different types of tests, as well as sending some out for further analysis. The state also comes by to get their own samples for testing.

And that's the most important lesson I've learned, testing water needs to be done to ensure water quality. Without it theirs no way of knowing what is the quality of water. Just looking at the water isn't a very good way of knowing about water quality. The creek we get our raw water from looks fairly clean most of the time, but it's not safe to drink without treatment.

Testing can be done in most counties for a small fee. If not send it out to to someplace further to see what's in the water. That goes for wells too. My mom has never tested her well water so theirs no way of knowing what's in it. My brother, who lives near farm fields had his water tested and found the level of nitrates to be very high and not safe to drink.

For most SHTF type things these ceramic filters and Chlorine added should make safe water. But I'd still suggest getting some simple pool test kit just to make sure there is sufficient , and not excessive, Chlorine to keep everyone healthy.

Some of the other tests I do at work are just out of the price range for most folks. The meters for turbidity or checking UV 254 (organics) cost big bucks. As long as the ceramic filters suggested don't crack we should all be fine without these other meters.

 

[jrg42]

hi. new here but been reading a lot of the threads. Saw this one linked from a more recent one.

Campden tablets can be used to remove chlorine. I use them for removing the chlorine and chloramine from the city water before brewing beer.

 

[stephpd]

I use them (or sodium metabisulfites) for wine making too. I use it more for sterilizing all equipment and as an anti browning agent when cutting up fruit.

There are some advantages and disadvantages to this. Some folks have a strong reaction to the sulfites. Even the smell of sulfur dioxide is offensive to some folks, and at much lower doses then Chlorine in water.

Here's a few links on just this process;
http://www.watertechonline.com/article.asp?IndexID=6631789
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite
http://www.reverseosmosischemicals.com/sodium-metabisulfite.htm

Guess I've been around chlorine far to long and appreciate it's benefits and live with it's faults. Campden tablets will certainly get rid of Chlorine and chloramines just be aware of what else can happen.