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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #1
just wondering what some of the better weapons for suppression are, i know manually operated rifles are very quiet.. but most the recoil operated semi auto pistols ive seen that have been suppressed still seemed pretty loud, while the same projectile out of a carbine or SMG like a thompson was generally much much quieter.. is this due to the longer barrels or the blowback vs recoil operated mechanism?

id like a pistol that could be very quiet when suppressed and trying to figure out a good formula for hat pistol.. recoil operated, delayed blowback, longer barrel or shorter, caliber, etc?

any suggestions?
 

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I believe that the formula is simpler than you think.

Action type is a small part of it.. Bolt action is quieter than semi-auto..

But most of it relates to the velocity of the round leaving the barrel. If the round is faster than the speed of sound ( about 1050 feet per second ), it gets louder. Keep it below- and it's quieter. IOW, use slower 9mm rounds instead of 9mm+P . This is because there are two sounds that your suppressor will be fighting- the expanding gasses leaving the barrel, and if bullets are travelling faster than the speed of sound, it's also got that supersonic crack to deal with ..

So, your larger, slower moving pistol rounds will fare better than higher velocity rounds will. .22LR standard velocity or subsonic will sound quieter than .22LR high performance ( aka higher speed ) rounds will . I use .22LR as an example because you can find ammo that are easily in three ranges ( well below the speed of sound, about the speed of sound, and above the speed of sound ). Same thing applies to 9mm, .45 ACP, etc..

Most rifle rounds are supersonic, thus this is where rifle rounds have fantastic energy from- that speed component. Most of this type of ammo can be handloaded to subsonic speeds, to eliminate the supersonic crack, but at that point, you've also greatly reduced the amount of energy the same round possesses. For example, a 55 grain .223 bullet traveling at about 3050 FPS has about 1136 foot pounds of energy, but a subsonic 55 grain .223 bullet traveling at 1050 fps only possesses 135 foot pounds of energy. To me, that means that for the most effective suppressors are more for pistols that already are subsonic, or very heavy (grains) rifle bullets.. However, rifle bullets often suffer the most loss when ammo is built to be subsonic compared to the normal rifle bullets (for the same caliber ).
 

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Ephemerally here
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An acquaintance of the Family, waaay back from Viet Nam era. He liked the High-Standard Semi Auto Pistol, with a Suppressor made in a NAVY weaps lab in San Diego, by an Absolute Wizard! It was so quiet, the loudest noise was the Action. Quieter than a Mousetrap taking a mouse.

He also had a Browning BL-22 rifle, set up to shoot Shorts. No Suppressor, but very nearly as quiet. It broke down into a small Attache Case.

Quietest .22 Rifle I've heard was an old Ruger 77/22, with a GemTech Outback II Suppressor. Shooting Aguila 40-grain Subsonics. Giggle Out Loud FUN to Shoot!!!
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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If you're looking for something that is more in the survival genre, take a look at an AR-15 platform set up with a .300 ACC Blackout upper. Add a suppressor and use sub-sonic loads, and you have a reasonably available, reasonably quiet, yet reasonably tactically-capable firearm suitable for Zombieland.

An example in your pistol version:

https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-m4-300-blackout-pistol.html

Here is a similar item, but in a rifle (M-4 carbine) with the suppressor permanently attached to a 10.5" barrel. Its going to be about your optimal *suppressed* platform/cartridge combination for a survival situation. (And no...I'm defining a survival situation as one where - by definition - you are not routinely making shots out beyond 400 meters. If they're that far away, there are probably other tactical options available...)

https://danieldefense.com/firearms/...300-blackout-integrally-suppressed-rifle.html



Just an informed opinion. Your mileage may vary.
 

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300 blackout is nice subsonic
45 is good subsonic as is 147gr 9mm
22 is super quiet subsonic

All are very quiet suppressed

I use all suppressed but the 45
 

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Start up the rotors
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Well, first, what are you trying to do with this weapon?

I've shot 22's that are just about movie quiet. Probably not that great for reaching out and touching anyone...
5.56, 45ACP, 9mm, 300BLK, all good suppressed with the right ammo.
All would be better at removing medium to large scale mammals from an environment.
308 is a great round suppressed. Suppression really masks origin, and yet it retains awesome ballistics.

What do you want to do with it? A suppressor is just a tool for a job. What's that job?
 
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Hands down the standard velocity .22LR in either handgun or rifle. Very quite and lethal... if you know precisely where to put 40 grains of lead.
 

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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #8
heres the point.. fire subsonic 45acp through say a 1911 with threaded barrel, shoot the same ammo through the same suppressor on a thompson.. it sounds quieter on the thompson.. does this have more to do with the type of action or the fact theres less higher pressure gasses leaving the muzzle due to a more complete burn out of the longer barrel?
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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heres the point.. fire subsonic 45acp through say a 1911 with threaded barrel, shoot the same ammo through the same suppressor on a thompson.. it sounds quieter on the thompson.. does this have more to do with the type of action or the fact theres less higher pressure gasses leaving the muzzle due to a more complete burn out of the longer barrel?
Or the fact that the muzzle blast is closer to your ear? :D:
 

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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #10
no, measured from the same distance it seems like a blowback carbine suppresses better than a recoil operated pistol.. trying to figure out if thats due to the recoil operation or the length of the barrel.. seemingly the recoil operation shouldnt cause a louder signature unless its the crack of the barrel smacking into the frame that you hear?
 

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Handgun: M-1911A1 with a slide lock. No action noise at all.

PDW: HK-51 style conversion of a PTR-91 w/integrally suppressed 10" barrel and retracting stock

Just my opinion.
 

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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #12
so is it just an erroneous perception that the short recoil pistol is louder or is there really something more to it, and if so, does anyone know what?.. its not like theres a blowback pistol in 45acp, or a short recoil operated carbine unless someone can put a 10 inch barrel on a 1911 to see if it has more to do with the barrel length or the action
 

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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #13
im actually considering a 1911 build.. either a para ordnance P14 frame (i can get a casting of this) with a rail and single/double action trigger, or i can get the P12 casting and a P14 casting and cut the extra grip length and dust cover off the DA P14, put it onto the P12 frame for a P14 single action with a rail (all using castings)

if i were to build a 1911 combat style pistol id focus on things like deeper, broader slide serrations, larger levers and buttons, more durable finish, rail, probably threaded muzzle, and i may completely delete the grip safety.. if i go with the double action frame i'll probably modify it to a double action only with a lightweight trigger pull for hammer-down carry and consistant trigger pull from first to last shot.. not to mention elevated fixed night sights thatll clear a suppressor
 

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Awesome
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Discussion Starter #15
its not misleading.. i was just wondering if action type (recoil operated.. essentially locked vs blowback) or barrel length had anything to do with how quiet suppression is, havent really gotten a solid answer yet

another question though is how would you compare the noise level of a 380 to say a 147 grain 9mm, and also compare that to a 230 grain 45acp?
 

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I would say there is a difference in the action type, especially with some type of delayed action (rotating bolt (AR/MPX), roller delayed (MP5 Family), etc.) to a straight blow back. I would guess this would be due to more of the gas being necessary to drive a straight blow back in order to cycle and therefore more gas escaping through the breech. The delayed mechanisms generally need lighter recoil springs for this reason. Therefore, keeping all things equal (caliber, suppressor, barrel length, etc.), the delayed action should be quieter (would it be enough to be noticeable? I don't know). If nothing else, it should force more of the expanding gas toward the suppressor.

I would also think you would see a difference within the AR family between DI and piston but it would probably be minimal.

All things being kept equal with only changes in barrel length, I would expect a longer barrel to be quieter. Most graphs I have seen of suppressed sound waves so a sharp peak in the beginning with the noise tapering off over time. Keep in mind you're talking about milliseconds. The extra barrel length allows not only more burn time before the bullet (think sound plug) leaves the barrel, but a greater volume of space for diffusion of sound. I don't do testing with suppressors, so just take this as opinion.

+1 on 300 Blk. I've seen tests of 300blk with an AAC suppressor test with a lower report than a MP5 SD which has been the gold standard for what, 50 years? You're also looking at a subsonic 220ish gr. bullet moving down range instead of 147 gr. There are videos of people getting good hits at decent ranges even with a subsonic 300blk, but there is a lot of compensation for drop.

Once I get my MPX squared away with the SBR Form 1 (any week now), I hope to suppress it. The rotating bolt/piston combination is not only supposed to cut down on noise, but also a lot of the crap that can get blown back into your face from the chamber.

Again, I'm no expert. But, maybe, this may open a different thought process. There may very well be a youtube comparison of suppressed 300blk AR and an MPX.
 

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Mad Dawg nailed it. Read his post again, because he knows of what he speaks. I'll also second the 300 Blackout, mentioned later. If you're going to suppress an AR, forget 223/5.56, it's a total waste of time and money and you will be disappointed because all the decent ammo is supersonic. Period. You have to choose between 300 (if it's for "work") or .22 LR. I've owned several dozen cans and generally I've been happiest with suppressing 22s while keeping them subsonic. Thompson Machine makes a killer Ruger 10/22 and CZ with integral suppressor. Others do too, but make sure you get only rifles with ported barrels so that you don't have to buy the (very) expensive subsonic rounds. Most pistols in 22 will stay subsonic.

The best suppressed weapon, if you have the means, is the select fire with 3-round burst MP5-SD. That is a crazy sweet weapon system that can run in full auto and suppressed and the barrel doesn't move at all from the recoil. And it's quiiiiieeeeeeet.

True story: when I was buying my first cans, the dealer shot off a round IN THE STORE, using the can I was asking about. He killed a telephone book, but nobody else in the store even looked our way. I was sold. It was a 22 LR can on a pistol with a shortish barrel, so the round couldn't get supersonic. I stupidly also bought a 5.56 Surefire can for my ARs. I've shot it once and, after realizing how loud it still was, it's been unused since.

Please, please, please don't waste your money on a can shooting supersonic rounds. You. Will. Be. Disappointed.

Good luck, brother. And listen to Mad Dawg.

Los
 

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Complicated, way to complicated! Just use a 22 cal pellet gun with needle hunting points dipped in cyanide. Of course you do have the 1 second delay while the cyanide does it's work :) Oh yeah, be very careful loading it!
 

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heres the point.. fire subsonic 45acp through say a 1911 with threaded barrel, shoot the same ammo through the same suppressor on a thompson.. it sounds quieter on the thompson.. does this have more to do with the type of action or the fact theres less higher pressure gasses leaving the muzzle due to a more complete burn out of the longer barrel?
It's probably the fact that a Thompson has a 10-16" barrel, while your 1911 probably has a 5" barrel.
Closer to your ear, and longer allows for more sound dissipation.
 
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