[Trosso]

Greetings. I intend to build an off-grid home with a greenhouse in the desert southwest. I'll catch rainwater on a huge roof, over 20,000 gallons a year, and grow whatever I can using "ollas" to stretch the water 10x. I'll control summer temperatures by running earthtubes into the greenhouse and dragging cool air into it with solar chimneys above, and add thermal mass and insulation wherever possible to keep the greenhouse warm in the winter. I live in one of the warmest areas of the country, so winter freezing won't be much of an issue.

With all that going for me, I might have enough water to grow up to 3000 sq ft of crops year-round. I've asked Google how much square footage one might need to support one person's food needs, and the figure it returned over and over again was 1200 sq ft. That would leave me with 1800 sq ft for economic purposes. I am not interested in becoming a farmer, so I will probably do a lot of canning.

With all that greenhouse gardening potential, I naturally wonder what crops would make the best barter items in an SHTF scenario. Tobacco, certainly, although I haven't checked with the government to see if this would be a restricted "sale" of tobacco. I've ruled out marijuana because the government here has restrictions on selling what you grow at home. I've thought of making alcohol, but the chance that it might backfire with a "customer" showing up outside my gate in a blind-drunk, gun-toting rage is too great. Hard drugs are out of the question, too, of course. I don't believe in them and don't want to do anything inimical to the community.

So we have tobacco, with an asterisk.

I plan to have a public compost toilet available to the neighborhood where I am going to live. This will supply fertilizer and urine in large quantities. With the urine, I could grow spirulina and chlorella, which could be life-saving foods for those who need protein, vitamins, and minerals desperately. So I'll add those to the list.

Yellow lentils would probably gain a lot of interest in an SHTF situation. They provide a dense source of leguminous profile protein, along with minerals and some vitamins. FEMA and the charities will probably push a great deal of filling-but-lacking-in-nutrition wheat-based products, such as bread, cookies, muffins, pancake mix, tortillas, corn products, etc., and eating yellow lentils in tandem will turn all of that into muscle-preserving whole protein. Soaking yellow lentils for a few hours, draining the water, and then letting them sit in a jar without the lid on for a few hours or a day will cause them to sprout. You can then bake these sprouts in a solar oven and grind them to a powder and advertise them as pea powder, which is a desirable body-building food for the reasons mentioned above.

All of the root-food tops, like radish tops, beet tops, turnip tops, mustard and collard greens, as well as foods like kale and spinach can be dehydrated and powdered. I think you can powder carrots, too. I haven't googled yet, but I'd like to know what other parts of traditional American vegetables can be eaten for nutrition, as well, and whether they can be dehydrated or frozen.

What I'd be after is anything of survival or comfort value. Sound batteries, solar equipment, working radios, old Hollywood DVDs, decent CDs (I like New Wave and Classic Rock), propane, insulation, or barter-for-skills, like installing insulation or solar equipment.

Coffee, chocolate, vanilla, and saffron are all in the realm of possibility. Other spices, as well. I may dabble in a little aquaponics, too, so I might add fish to the list. You can turn the urine from the public compost pile into spirulina and feed it to all manner of fish. There is a company up north that actually grows dinner table shrimp in vats. I think the shrimp would eat spirulina, too. Spirulina is mega-nutritious.

There is an interesting book called "The Humanure Handbook" that describes how to safely use human waste to grow crops, among other things. I highly recommend it if you intend to survive a food crisis.

Please reply with your thoughts on what would be good barter crops when The Time Comes.

 

[Weedinhoe]

First of all, welcome to the Board. There’s lots of valuable information here.

That’s a pretty ambitious project you have in your sights. What’s your time frame for building, as in soon or “future”? If this is a long term project it might be wise to start gathering some actual data now to test some of your assumptions such as the amount of rain you can collect from the roof. One of the most important things to consider is safe drinking water via pure source or your ability to make it safe. You might want to read up on the safety of roof water.

Are you gardening now? If not, it’s not as easy as you might think and I’d suggest starting a garden now to learn how, see what grows well in your area and how to maximize what does grow. Water it the old fashioned way by buckets to measure how much water your test garden actually needs. Unless you have good solar or a gravity fed irrigation system when the grid goes down, your well won’t be pumping.

Barter crops. There are whole discussions in this forum on that subject. Seek them out as you will find the discussions valuable since they come from a wide array of geography, personal preferences and experiences. It basically revolves around what grows best for you in your area and the biggest nutrition and storage bang for the buck. Root crops, legumes, hearty things like kale, etc.

When I think of “off grid” it brings to mind being away from population centers. How big is this "neighborhood" you’re going to? Sometimes there is safety in numbers but during a SHTF situation, civility will pretty much go out the window especially when it comes to the availability of food. There will be more taking than bartering. Have you thought about site protection? Do you have firearms?

A public toilet. Yes, it will generate nitrogen but at what cost? I’m thinking about any diseases etc being deposited by users known and unknown. And hopefully there won’t be arguments about who gets to use the “fertilizer” and how much.

Considering the emphasis and rapid development of EMP technology by Russia and especially China, I would recommend being ready to function without power. And you might also want to read the book “One Second After” by William Forstchen to get a taste of that scenario.

Do not plan to rely on FEMA for anything. Charities will run out of everything quickly since no one will be donating anything to give away. Think about how store shelves emptied quickly during the early stages of the pandemic. What you have at the time of crisis will be what you go forward with.

Preparation is a long constant process but every journey begins with a first step. You have a vision and the desire to start taking steps towards it. Knowledge is power so read, read, read and always test your assumptions lest you find yourself falling very short if and when The Time comes.

 

[lasers]

I think you are missing a zero on how many square feet it takes to feed one person.

Corn is one of the most calorie dense per square foot crops. If you assume 3400 calories per day of nothing but corn it would take 2900 square feet to feed one person for a year. Using the same numbers for wheat it would take 12000 feet.

Most people also like to not die of scurvy or other nutrient deficiencies so you have to add in space for fruit and vegetables.

And those are modern numbers that assume the proper use of fertilizers and that the land is irrigated/drained as necessary.

 

[Hick Industries]

IMO, Barter crops should be easy to store and transport. Something your customer can easily recognise and enjoy.

My suggestion is fresh baked bread, meaning you would be raising hard red wheat. Livestock is easy to move, everyone likes fresh eggs. Corn is easier to trade after you turn it into moonshine, and excess apples into hard cider.

Btw, 1200 sqft is only 30 ft by 40 ft. Basically a large living room.
My suggestion is 1 acre garden for your family, another 1 acre fruit orchard, and (2) 5 acre grain fields.

 

[Jerry D Young]

I believe you might be rather low on the square footage to support one person for a year. It does depend on what the definition is that you are using. If it is just certain types of vegetables, fruits, and such, then possibly. If it is for nearly full self-sufficiency, then it is way low. Be that as it may:

First, I would recommend using a vertical grow system of some type, preferably as an enhanced aquaponics system with rabbit hutches with the droppings feeding worm beds, which can be used to supplement the feed for the fish and for chickens, and the worm casing collected occasionally to make fertilizer tea. Rabbit meat, fish, eggs, and chicken would all be excellent barter items. Enough other feed can be grown to supplement the worms for the chickens and rabbits.

If you can divide the greenhouse effectively, you might consider some tropical and subtropical plants, and some Mediterranean plants in sections. Coffee, tea, cocoa beans, bananas, citrus, many different spices, flavorings, and other adjuncts would be major value trade goods, if you can grow and process them. Just the raw material for most of them would not be adequate as people could not use them effectively. Processing them into usable form would bring much more, though there would be an additional investment.

Berries of several types, but especially strawberries, blackberries, and blueberries would be very valuable. Even if you do not want to raise any large stock, there would most likely be someone or several people around that would. Chances are they would have a hard time feeding them. So, one area might be set aside in the greenhouse to set up a verticle growing system for green fodder. It could be a part of an existing hydroponics or aquaponics system or independent.

I believe other high-value crops would be an enhanced stew garden and possibly a limited salad garden. Potatoes, onions, carrots, plus turnips and beets. If you can also grow some Roma tomatoes, sweet peas and say, Hopi Blue corn, you can have the items to make great soups and stews. Package it up right and you can barter/trade effectively. Add lettuces, some peppers, radishes, and cucumbers and you have a salad. Even without all of the salad items, cucumbers would be good to grow, anyway, for pickles. Then on a vertical wall grow musk melons and watermelons to reduce space usage.

Finally, with that amount of water, though it is not a greenhouse, if you do some amendment to the ground, or have a good yearly source of good compost and use raised beds, you can grow several items that are space-intensive outside. Erect poles and use both shade cloth and a misting system, along with drip irrigation, and you can greatly add to the greenhouse output.

If the ground is suitable, and there are specific grasses that will grow there, you might broadcast seed a large area to produce grass hay and with the right small scale harvesting equipment, straw, both of which will be in demand for large stock owners and people with horses.

I think there are some other things that can be done with that amount of water in that area.

Just my opinion.

 

[Florida Jean]

Redo your calorie math. Just do one crop at maximum sq. footage, and number of crops you can get for that Plant per year. Try beans. Potatoes. The lentils. And anything else.

barter trade use crops. Ginger. Sun choke. Peanuts. Blueberries. Strawberries. Outside greenhouse maybe blackberries or raspberrie. Or if you do have enough water, will a mulberry tree grow outside?

 

[lasers]

Sugar could be a trade commodity and the ability to make it could be a good skill. Imagine what you would trade for sugar if the last sweet thing you ate was an apple back in October.

There are a lot of ways to make sugars or syrups. Maple, sorghum, bee keeping, malting grains, making ciders.

I personally would be willing to trade for sugar long before careen or alachol or tobacco.

 

[GrizzlyetteAdams]

Welcome to the boards...

In reference to the book you mentioned,

There is an interesting book called "The Humanure Handbook" that describes how to safely use human waste to grow crops, among other things. I highly recommend it if you intend to survive a food crisis.

Keep in mind that although this concept has been practiced for eons in countries around the world, it is not ideal. Interestingly, the majority of people living in countries that routinely use 'humanure' in growing food crops are constantly battling intestinal parasites. There have been many studies that linked the parasite problem to this gardening practice. There's your sign that this may not be the ideal solution that we read about in the Humanure Handbook (and related spin-off publications).

No matter how carefully the 'humanure' is processed to eliminate parasite eggs, some will invariably survive and infect you later, just like those who live in some third-world countries.

Parasites are the last thing we want to deal with in a SHTF or other hard times situation. Sure, there are herbal wormers, but some parasites can survive them, too. Best policy is to avoid catching them in the first place, especially considering how some can have permanent life-altering effects.

One of several better, more sustainable alternatives is to fertilize with plants in their various forms. I fertilize my own gardens with common weeds and plants that I grow. The results are nothing short of amazing. If you are raising animals for meat, much of the same foods that are raised for them can also be used for fertilizing soil as well.

Along those lines, you might want to check out the book, The Regenerative Grower's Guide to Garden Amendments by Nigel Palmer. He covers how to use locally sourced materials to sustain your garden.

EDITED TO ADD: I re-read your original post and see that you live in a difficult area to be sustainably self-sufficient In hard times. This translates to more people in your area that will be eyeing what you are able to produce. You will also be constantly dealing with the have-nots who want what you have....

Aside from that point, I would also seriously consider what the original inhabitants of that land did for food. Some Native American tribes grew things like tepary beans and other things that naturally grow well in their region.

 

[Marjorie]

Not sure what part of the SW desert you're looking at, but where I live outside of Phoenix we've gotten less than 2" of rain in the last 13 months, and it will be at least a month and a half (usually longer) until the summer rains start. That's if we get them this year, since we didn't last year and the winter was dry, too.

Ollas are also not as efficient as the books make them out to be, at least not when the soil is so dry like it's been the last few years. You can only grow in the very, very close vicinity to them. I tried for a few years and while it's something I'll definitely keep doing, it's also not going to decrease your water needs to 10% unless you also have good shade and thick mulch.

I disagree with Grizzlyette Adams -- the process used for 'night soil' in third world countries isn't at all the same as used in the Humanure Handbook. BUT -- I have a humanure toilet at our cabin in Northern Arizona, and it composts well up there. Rainfall is about 12-18" per year, depending, and summer time temps are highs of 110 but more often stay in the low 100s. In contrast, my compost pile down near Phoenix does nothing. I use it down here to compost chicken manure and food scraps. I think the combination of higher heat (115+) and the much drier climate makes not ideal conditions for composting. It's something to keep in mind, anyway. Try it on a small scale (your own toilet) before you try the larger scale (a neighborhood toilet).

 

[ttkciar]

Consider adding a few chickens.

Their caloric contribution is modest (a little under one egg a day per hen under ideal conditions, a third that many under adverse conditions, at 70 to 100 calories per egg), but they can eat the parts of a crop humans can't, and transform into eggs what would otherwise be waste biomass.

 

[soocom1]

Some dynamics that get lost quickly that was briefly mentioned.

Sustenance crops or staple crops are crops that can do exactly what you want to do.
But I would also caution not to get too ambitious for several reasons.

The land needs to be able to fallow for a time so crop rotation with a blank area is key. Also fertilizer comes in many diff. forms, with an emphasis not only on basic nutrients but those that help make the soil fully fertile.
Sterilization can happen quickly especially with over use of the land.
Growing the same thing over and over on the same spot (monoculture) can seriously harm the nutrient aspects of the soil.
Growing and turning over crops like soybeans can make a huge difference.
Using various ashes including volcanic and/or wood ash requires knowing soil acidity.

Worms!!! LOTS O WORMS!!! Worms will till soil underneath and their casings (poop) will enriched the soil dramatically.

Keeping the soil will mean better crops with better management. But also if you start becoming a grocery store for the neighborhood you could bring unwanted attention to yourself and homestead. (OPSEC). (I actually hate that term but it applies.)

Also remember that some crops hate others and some grow very well with others and can act as natural pesticides/pest repellant.

Keep in mind that tobacco grown can deplete nutrients rapidly. But also act as a huge bug deterrent. I say this because one of the more horrendous pesticides is nicotine. But if used in a natural environment will do.

https://www.hunker.com/12127114/how-to-make-and-use-organic-pesticide-from-tobacco

 

[Copymutt]

Interesting thread. First barter that came to mind, while not a crop is eggs. High in protein, ease of LT storage.
O.P., I’m curious about your math of water collection. Would you divulge sq. ft. Of roof and annual rainfall?

 

[Jojo]

Tabacco, marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote and any thing that can be distilled, fermented or brewed.

 

[Stwood]

Wheat or oats. Easy to grow. Lots of effort to harvest and thrash though (by hand).

 

[dontbuypotteryfromme]

Sugar cane or corn? For bio diesel.

 

[AlphaSierraCharlie]

For barter, I would think you'd want maximum ROI. I would focus on producing bulk calories first. Grains (corn, maybe barley), legumes (lentils or beans), potatoes, and sweet potatoes are all good options but I would focus on grains and legumes for their protein value. Lentils are faster cooking than beans and don't require soaking and have much higher fiber, which could be useful if people get constipated from MREs early in the relief efforts. Pole beans however can climb cornstalks, which gives the advantage of growing 2 crops in the same place. Heirloom varieties of both meant for companion planting are available and would be the best choice, and can be dried for long term storage.

I think that's your best choice for most of your square footage. You can grow a lot in a given area, allowing you to quickly store a large amount of seed or product. Being able to sell more than a single crop in the beginning will allow you to maximize your profit, help your surrounding area, and buy security.

After that, I'd look into micronutrient/high value crops like, well, anything else. Onions and carrots would probably be good choices. I would focus on growing a few things well instead of pursuing a large variety. Tobacco is a good idea, but can be hard to grow. I'd try a few plants at a time until you get good before planting a multitude, but keep viable seeds on hand. Having ANY tobacco will be a huge asset, so I wouldn't worry about having a massive stock. In fact, the scarcity will likely be a huge advantage in the beginning. Once food from outside your area becomes more common you can switch to more tobacco production.

Making alcohol will be extremely valuable, but you're correct about the risks. You could supply the brewers though.

I would be extremely hesitant about using human feces for fertilizer. Even if you do it absolutely perfectly and there is no health risk (and I don't think that's really plausible) all it would take is a disease outbreak and the knowledge that you grow food in poop, and you could find yourself hosting a lynch mob.

 

[Trosso]

Dear Discussion Participants,

I am just revisiting this post after an absence from the boards and I've only gotten about halfway through the replies. Some of you have asked for some clarification about my strategy, and some have suggested that my figures for the minimum square footage to support one person through home agriculture might be wrong. Others have suggested that having a surplus might create another problem: attracting desperate people. I'm going to read the rest of the replies I haven't gotten to yet, but I thought I'd address these issues first.

Thank you so much for replying, everybody!

Regarding a full-blown SHTF situation: I don't know how to prepare for a situation like that. A full-blown, Mad Max-level economic collapse would probably involve armed defense of the homestead, with alliances and armed escorts on the roads to deal with highwaymen and Negan types. Anything less and you'll get "picked off" by someone willing to go a little farther, someone a little more hungry. I cannot own any gun produced after 1899, unless it is a replica of a gun made before 1900, and even that is unlikely because there is another layer of gun restrictions at the state level here. I can petition to have my gun rights restored at the state level, and then, if I'm successful, I could legally own something like a Colt Dragoon or a 1858 Remington New Army or replicas thereof, which would be better than nothing. I am not a felon.

For me, its a game of odds. How likely is it that nuclear war will break out? People have been talking about it since the late 40's and it's never happened. What HAS happened, either here or abroad, are steep economic crises involving high inflation, especially food inflation, high unemployment, blackouts, gas shortages, stock market crashes, embargoes and tariffs, etc. All of those things have been in the scene, sometimes more so than at other times, pretty much since I was born in the early seventies. The effects of events like these are felt in some way by hundreds of thousands of Americans who go belly up economics-wise every year. I'm sure there are sober men who lost their jobs and ended up in a smelly homeless shelter who wish they had built an off-grid property by now. On a philosophical note: the crisis of 2008 was always described as the worst humiliation and degradation inflicted on the American working class and middle class since the Great Depression, but the level of resistance against "business as usual" could be summed up in whatever peak level was achieved by the "Occupy" movement. Last I checked, the revolutionaries barely even ran a few candidates, much less came for all your extra kale, onions, soybeans, etc. I look at prepping as a way to sidestep 80% of the pain and suffering one would experience if one didn't try to be more self-sufficient. As for surviving World War 3--the whole idea is staggering and beyond my ability. It's a gamble.

Where did I get the 1200 sq ft figure? I got it from two other forums, both of them quoting a specialist theoretician who used the most space-saving intensive, water-saving intensive methods with the most ideal crops for the project, growing year round in climate-controlled greenhouse conditions, probably at my latitude or closer to the equator. I didn't keep notes. One aquaponics website claiming to reduce water consumption by 99% claimed 800 square feet. I haven't been able to locate that website since I visited it years ago. It also involved using the north wall vertically for additional area. Neither website mentioned spirulina, chlorella, or other microalgae, which are very efficient crops.

Regarding Humanure: There has to be a way to crack this puzzle! I agree with others that the risk of disease is there. The Humanure Handbook mentions some species of worms whose eggs are extremely hardy. I think the main one to worry about is the roundworm species. But the benefits of figuring this out are too great to give up so easily. Imagine my public toilet, with advertisements on large wooden signs: "Air-Conditioned!"; "Rehydrate With a Glass of Water and Leave a Deposit!" "Hand-washing Station!" "Two-Gallon Showers for Two Dollars!" "Come Off the Trail and Get Some Relief!" The local compost club sells its compost for something like $100 to $125 a cubic yard! Along with the #2, you would get #1, which can be used to grow spirulina, chlorella, and other microalgae. But, as has been mentioned, you need a way to raise the safety level to 99.999999%. I think the answer is solar energy: bake the finished compost in a solar oven all day in the summer, and you've effectively killed EVERYTHING. Nothing can survive temperatures above 350 degrees for five hours or longer, not even close. I'm not as worried about the urine. It chemically neutralizes pathogens, especially if you leave it in a sealed container for a few months. What would be even better would be having an assembly line type system that runs on day drive solar to get the finished compost processed through the solar ovens and stored in silos.

Regarding the Time-Frame: I'm currently attempting to get a full-time job. I've been on unemployment since last year. I've just about paid off the land I'm discussing. I need a little more time to design the home on a computer and figure out how to put it together. I would like to do it myself to save on labor costs and materials (I'll scavenge as much of those as I can), so I want to model the process on a computer. I had some other goals, but I think I'll put those off for now in the interests of getting my own home first. I'll work one or one-and-a-half jobs for the next year or year-and-a-half and focus on the design and computer modeling in my spare time. Then I'll build it. I'll bring a link to this website when I have some good computer files to share.

I'll be fully vaccinated in two-and-a-half days. The end of the two-week post-second shot period for Pfizer.

I'll be back with more thoughts. Thank you, everybody!

 

[Weedinhoe]

Trosso, thanks for the extra details that provide a more clear picture of your goals. I just hope that the price of lumber goes down by the time you're ready to build. Just this morning they were talking about no end in site to that rising cost. My guess is that there will be a point of diminishing returns when a) interest rates climb again and become prohibitive, b) lumber costs put new homes out of reach price-wise and c) tax rates get jacked up high enough by the current admin. I won't go there.

Just a random thought about the humanure thing. Milorganite is a bagged fertilizer produced by the Milwaukee Sewage District. Our local feed and seed orders it on request and a very good friend of mine has had great results with it. The point is that Milwaukee can safely process their sewage sludge. This link gives some info on how they do it:

Milorganite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Best to you on your endeavors. Hang in there!

 

[Trosso]

Regarding the price of lumber: There is no way I'm paying retail for building supplies. For concrete, yes, because I haven't figured out a way to reverse the chemical process that takes place when cement mix is mixed with water and allowed to dry. But lumber? People throw away wood.

You might think "You'll only get bits and pieces of wood, nothing you could build a roof/wall out of." I think I've solved that problem. Not that I'm going to try to build one of their houses (while still acknowledging their great inherent value, novelty, and desirability), but there is a company on the East Coast called Enertia Homes that builds novel solar buildings using the double-envelope method. What I found interesting about their technique is that they rely heavily on "glue-lams" for everything. Glue lams are boards of wood glued together to create super-strong beams. So, using the glue-lam method, I could create beams of wood of any desired length with steel-like strength, as long as I'm able to invent the glue-lam making machine. I have three years to figure this out.

Regarding the 1200 sq ft figure: I did some more research and I was able to find a website dedicated to this idea. It is:

www.growbiointensive.org

They have quite a bit of information about their Grow Intensive method of agriculture. I might be willing to increase my portion of the greenhouse (for my own food) to 2200 sq ft, and have a separate greenhouse for barter crops. That way I could experiment with luxuries like coffee, sugar beets, vanilla, spices, etc.

Jojo: There's nothing on that list that I have anything particularly against, except alcohol, for the reason I mentioned in my first post. It's just that the government objects.

Copymutt: I'm thinking 8000 sq ft for the roof, especially designed for water collection, and just under six inches of rain a year.

soocom1: If I remember from grade school, the purpose of crop rotation is to ensure the health of the microbes that are essential for nitrogen fixation. Could you cheat by applying "effective microbes" to the soil with fresh manure every year? "Effective microbes" are an actual product that you can buy in a bottle, and presumably culture in a vat.

Marjorie: Let's just say I could drive to your city and only have to change the radio station once. Shh! That's disappointing news about the ollas. I attended a compost club class in Albuquerque and learned the technique for the lasagna method adapted to the southwestern climate. If you're interested, I could send you their phone number or other information. In short, you wrap the compost on its exposed surfaces (not the bales) with breathable plastic wrap that slows the drying-out process but allows enough gas exchange to prevent anaerobic activity from taking over, and then remove the plastic and spritz the compost at three to five different heights (you'll have to work with a shovel) once every two or three weeks. I actually did one of these procedures with the rest of the class, and, indeed, the compost was forming (Black Gold!)

Regarding water: We are now in superdrought territory, and rooftop water catchment may eventually no longer be a viable solution to my needs. I'm a little behind on science, but there is a video for an invention that I'd like to adapt to smaller-scale water production on Youtube. Doing this would be a major stunt that would make me famous, and I'd have to figure out everything including how to do it without spending a million dollars I don't have. Here's the link:

That's all I can think of in response to Marjorie's 2 inches of rainfall in the last 13 months. I don't think it's been that bad here, but I'm a believer in global warming, and things will just get worse. The thing about global warming is that a warmer atmosphere can hold more moisture, so humidity might increase, making something like this invention more possible.

I have one big thing to take care of before I post again. Until then, Cheers and stay strong!

 

[Trosso]

BTW, the original video I found was under a YouTuber handle "fueradelcampo" and it was in English. It stated at the end that the invention could be used by anyone willing to "develop it." I haven't yet translated this video--I'll need my Dad's help. The terms of use for the invention might have changed. I haven't jumped the gun to contact the channel yet.