Great question. The $1700 price tag of the M1A Scout has kept me from biting. I would like to know if there is a more affordable, and reliable, alternative.
Best 308 semi-auto for the money
I'am looking for a 308 semi-auto rifle - recommend some good ones below the $800 price range.
After doing some internet searches, I came across the Cetme 308. If anyone here has a Cetme 308, please post your experiences. Several years ago I owned an H&K SP89, so the safety and charging of the Cetme should not be new. for some reason, part of the Cetme design looks just like an H&K.
The ideal rifle would be something like the Springfield Armory M1A or Scout A1. but I do not have $1,400 to drop on a rifle.
There is the remington model 750 woodsmaster. But there is not much of a price difference between the remington 750 and the Cetme 308. And the Cetme 308 accepts large capacity magazines, while the 750 does not.
I already have a remington model 700 bolt action rifle in 280/7mm express, and a marlin 336 in 30-30.
DPMS makes a AR-15 / AR-10 style rifle in 308, but the prices I have seen put it over $1,000.
There is the saiga in 308, but I dont know how the accuracy is.
The rifle is going to be my primary deer hunting rifle. On occasion it might be brought hog hunting, or on camping trips. Most of my shots are less then 100 yards.
I also have an Bushmaster AR-15 223 / 5.56mm and WASR-10 in 7.62X39. The goal is to have something with a little more power then either of those 2 rifles. Something that is rugged enough to take take where ever, but accurate enough to make 100+ yard shots and hit a baseball sized target.
After doing some internet searches, I came across the Cetme 308. If anyone here has a Cetme 308, please post your experiences. Several years ago I owned an H&K SP89, so the safety and charging of the Cetme should not be new. for some reason, part of the Cetme design looks just like an H&K.
The ideal rifle would be something like the Springfield Armory M1A or Scout A1. but I do not have $1,400 to drop on a rifle.
There is the remington model 750 woodsmaster. But there is not much of a price difference between the remington 750 and the Cetme 308. And the Cetme 308 accepts large capacity magazines, while the 750 does not.
I already have a remington model 700 bolt action rifle in 280/7mm express, and a marlin 336 in 30-30.
DPMS makes a AR-15 / AR-10 style rifle in 308, but the prices I have seen put it over $1,000.
There is the saiga in 308, but I dont know how the accuracy is.
The rifle is going to be my primary deer hunting rifle. On occasion it might be brought hog hunting, or on camping trips. Most of my shots are less then 100 yards.
I also have an Bushmaster AR-15 223 / 5.56mm and WASR-10 in 7.62X39. The goal is to have something with a little more power then either of those 2 rifles. Something that is rugged enough to take take where ever, but accurate enough to make 100+ yard shots and hit a baseball sized target.
1 - 20 of 291 Posts
If you can find one there's also the Saiga in .308. You could leave as is or convert it to look like a regular ak. Ak reliability and a side scope rail that you can use a quick detach mount on. Costs a little over $500.00. Not as accurate as a G3 or M1A but from what I've heard more accurate than your standard ak.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct455.aspx
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct455.aspx
Kev I just read your post again (slower this time, kinda skimmed through first time). For a hundred yard rifle I think the Saiga would be a good choice. Saiga's are top of the line ak's and a low power scope or red dot should improve the accuracy as the main problem with ak's to me has always been the rather crude sights.
M14. Maybe it is a bit pricey but it is tried and true.
You are right on target Kev. Unless you can find a used PTR91 or Century made HK91 in your price range (and it will take some looking) the Cetme is exactly what you want. The Cetme is the immediate ancestor of the HK91. After WW2 German engineers couldn't build rifles in Germany, so they moved to Spain and designed the Cetme. When H&K set up in Germany they went home and tweaked the Cetme into the HK91. They point and handle almost identically and share a number of parts including the $2 aluminum magazines. Last year I took my white tail buck with my Cetme.
They are not a 1,000 yard rifle, but if you can live with minute of bad guy chest at 300 yards, they are just what you need.
The Saiga gets compared to the cetme a lot. I have never handled a Saiga but the cheap and plentiful HK mags make the Cetme a LOT more attractive to me.
The only fly in the ointment is that most Cetme's on the market were assembled by Century arms who has had quality control issues in that department. If you have read up on Cetme's you have seen that discussed ad naseum already so I won't go there except to say that i bought two. One was good to go right off the shelf. The other was a single shot until I noticed that the mag well had been pinched. 10 seconds with a gentle pry bar put her back in perfect running order ever since.
They are not a 1,000 yard rifle, but if you can live with minute of bad guy chest at 300 yards, they are just what you need.
The Saiga gets compared to the cetme a lot. I have never handled a Saiga but the cheap and plentiful HK mags make the Cetme a LOT more attractive to me.
The only fly in the ointment is that most Cetme's on the market were assembled by Century arms who has had quality control issues in that department. If you have read up on Cetme's you have seen that discussed ad naseum already so I won't go there except to say that i bought two. One was good to go right off the shelf. The other was a single shot until I noticed that the mag well had been pinched. 10 seconds with a gentle pry bar put her back in perfect running order ever since.
Kev,
Gotta agree with Larry recommending the Saiga. At 100 yards, you will have plenty of accuracy for deer and hog kills, even with the 16" barrel. Personally, I would go with the 20" for more long-distance shots ... but if you are only going out to 100 ... go for the 16".
For the price, you can't beat it.
Gotta agree with Larry recommending the Saiga. At 100 yards, you will have plenty of accuracy for deer and hog kills, even with the 16" barrel. Personally, I would go with the 20" for more long-distance shots ... but if you are only going out to 100 ... go for the 16".
For the price, you can't beat it.
FN/FAL Imbel
$799.00
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct618.aspx
IMBEL is an acronym for Indústria de Material Bélico do Brasil (Military Material Industry) a Brazilian state company, founded in 1975 as a quango of the Ministry of Defence.
Says Gabe Suarez:
$799.00
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct618.aspx
IMBEL is an acronym for Indústria de Material Bélico do Brasil (Military Material Industry) a Brazilian state company, founded in 1975 as a quango of the Ministry of Defence.
Says Gabe Suarez:
The issue with the M1A is the scope mount. You have to do too much to get it right IMHO. And a rack grade M1A won't do much more than a rack grade FAL.
G3's problem is the trigger.
AR-10 is OK, but then we get into the same issues as the M4. You gotta keep it clean and maintained or else.
6.8? For those with lots of resources sure but until a militarty adopts it, there is surplus ammo available, and you can buy it at Walmart, its as interesting as the 7.5 Swiss to me.
Saiga is nice but will need work to keep up in the accuarcy realm. Then there are the magazines.
PSL is a good one but again...will need work out of the box and there is a lack of match ammo.
The FAL is not perfect either. It is not as accurate as the AR-10, but it can get dirtier than the AR-10 or M1A.
We could mince pepper flakes and fly poop about accuracy, but how much do you need. If I can hit a man in the chest at 600 yards....over and over and over, what more do you need? Will things get better if the other rifles will fire a 10" group instead of your 12" group....or even a 14" group?
None of them is a perfect beast, but unless we want to move back to bolt guns, I think its the best bet.
I own two Cetme's and recommend that everyone own two. Here's a lot more detail:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...=102816&page=2
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...=102816&page=2
I believe the Winchester SX-AR is selling for around that (maybe just above). Comes with a 10 round mag which I think are the same as the ones for the FNAR so you could use the 20 rounders.
Mags are pricey though.
Mags are pricey though.
Thanks for the link Atlantic arms link shamalama. I was able to find a carbine version of the FN - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct458.aspx
So now its come to:
Century Arms Cetme - $499 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct856.aspx
Atlantic Arms Imbel FAL carbine - $909 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct458.aspx
Is there really a $400 difference between the 2 rifles? From what I understand there are some quality issues with the century arms cetme.
So now its come to:
Century Arms Cetme - $499 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct856.aspx
Atlantic Arms Imbel FAL carbine - $909 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct458.aspx
Is there really a $400 difference between the 2 rifles? From what I understand there are some quality issues with the century arms cetme.
I would go with an FAL and never look back. Then sometime down the road you could always trade it in and upgrade to an M1A. That's just my personal preference but another thing to consider is magazine cost and how many you want.
Norinco M305B (M14 clone) for $429, but only available in Canada. I have one on pre-order as couldn't pass up one for that price.
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-305.shtm
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-305.shtm
Pricy? Yes it is, however Springfield Arms delivers one hell of a proven product. It might sound odd, but I don't mind too much shelling out a reasonably greater amount for quality and reliability....not just the name.:thumb: 'Hope this makes some kind of sense.Great question. The $1700 price tag of the M1A Scout has kept me from biting. I would like to know if there is a more affordable, and reliable, alternative.
I would go with an FAL and never look back. Then sometime down the road you could always trade it in and upgrade to an M1A. That's just my personal preference but another thing to consider is magazine cost and how many you want.
'Nothing wrong with the FAL at all. Great keywords you used 'cause that IS what it is!:thumb:
FAL from J&G for $699
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...w-muzzlebrake-/cPath/209_432/products_id/4505
But with century arms its hit or miss on the quality its either going to be a great gun or a bad one.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...w-muzzlebrake-/cPath/209_432/products_id/4505
But with century arms its hit or miss on the quality its either going to be a great gun or a bad one.
I'd skip it and buy better.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/cetme-308-a-8342/
FAL for $799 is a great price
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/cetme-308-a-8342/
FAL for $799 is a great price
I think I like the carbine better then the full version, and the carbine cost a little bit more.FAL from J&G for $699
------------------------------
So the difference between a Cetme and the FN, is one weapon works, the other may not. Or one might fall apart while the other stays together.
With all due respect, Kevin, I think you're looking in the wrong place.I think I like the carbine better then the full version, and the carbine cost a little bit more.
------------------------------
So the difference between a Cetme and the FN, is one weapon works, the other may not. Or one might fall apart while the other stays together.
Check out http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12 for more on the CETME. If you go for the CETME and it turns out to be a crap gun, these guys will help you get it running. Sometimes it only takes a set of plus size rollers to get the gun up and running. Very seldom will you have to do something really drastic.
Check out http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php for more about the FAL. Very good group of guys. Very knowledgeable on the subject of FALS.
The FAL on Atlantic Firearms is made by Entreprise. You'll get conflicting reports on quality. They used to be just like Century, but rumor has it that they've changed quite a bit. I think they offer a lifetime guarantee on their rifles. Century offers a one year warranty on their products.
Good luck with whatever you decide to get.
1 - 20 of 291 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Survivalist Forum
A forum community dedicated to survivalists and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about collections, gear, DIY projects, hobbies, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
Carne Frio
800 Replies
Forrest Mosby
490 Replies
subvetredux
472 Replies
