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Semper Fi
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Entry level and POS are not always synonymous.

There are plenty of relatively inexpensive rifles that will serve probably 80% or more of buyers well for the rest of their lives. Not everyone is a DeltaSealGSG9Operator needing to make one shot kills from a bobbing ship.
 

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Space Force Recruit
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Hence why I wrote, "on the earliest rifles at least" in my post. Which was aimed at his assertion that there was some lack of quality in those HK mil-surp parts.

I am well aware that PTR currently makes almost everything themselves now.
Ah okay, guess I took your post out of context, sorry.
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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8,888 Posts
Entry level and POS are not always synonymous.

There are plenty of relatively inexpensive rifles that will serve probably 80% or more of buyers well for the rest of their lives. Not everyone is a DeltaSealGSG9Operator needing to make one shot kills from a bobbing ship.
Outstanding post.

So much depends on your circumstances and how you define terms...

I picked up a Remington R-25 about a decade ago. One of these:

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Remington-R-25-Semi-Auto-Rifle

Rumor had it these were based on an original DPMS design that was re-worked to serve as a hunting rifle. They had 20" barrels with recessed crowns and no flash hiders, reasonably decent triggers, free floated barrels, and a price point of around $1250 or so on sale, think MSRP was several hundred more than that (a decade ago).

I put a Nikon 4x12x40 scope on it and used it for coyotes on some of the ranches in my area, and deer up in the Umatilla National Forest.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en...oyote-special-4-12x40-matte-bdc-predator.html

LLEA were busy finding and burning illegal marijuana grows in the national forests back then, and several wildlife LEOs were involved in gun fights with growers in Oregon and Washington. I wanted one against the day I might wander into someone's marijuana field during deer season. Figured it was sort of a "dual-use hunting/survival" rifle and left it at that.

I'd call that an "entry level" AR-10 platform at a $1.2K price point, particularly since builders like Larue and Daniel Defense were asking between $3K-$4K for their AR-10 models.

On the other hand, it met my needs then - and I won't be heading into any combat zones in the near future (unless I drive over to Portland) so I expect it will continue to meet my needs in the future as well.

Daniel Defense has a nice model similarly designed for hunting, but at nearly twice the price:

https://danieldefense.com/dd5-v4-hunter.html

I'm sure it's a better rifle, but not sure it would meet my needs any better given what I'm wanting it for.

Everything depends on how you define your terms.

Just an opinion.
 

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Adventurer
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870 Posts
I just finished mine...... 80% JM polymer lower, basic mlok furniture, standard adjustable ar stock...... Completed upper from PSA.....and I’m into it for about 800 dollars total.

I did also buy a PSA aluminum lower with a magpul stock for when my polymer lower eventually breaks..... I will prob switch them out and keep the polymer one as an emergency back up.

An 18 inch PSA very basic setup will cost about 900 if you use all their parts...... last year the same one would have been 750-800.

Haven’t shot it yet so I can’t give you any feedback on reliability and accuracy yet.
 

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797 Posts
A ton of value from LWRC and Windham for sure for AR-10s. And Atlantic Firearms has a variety of platforms, including the PTR-91. The HK91/PTR-91 platform won't win many internet contests for bench accuracy, but they are battle worthy accurate and more importantly, survivable in nasty battle conditions. Many ARs can be VERY finicky unless kept very clean and very wet, and with certain favored types of ammo. The 91s don't really care as much and can function with minimal upkeep.
 

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AR-10's don't work, never have. Its why the military tried to bring out the SCAR (we all know the M-14 was a disaster and just because it was "still used" in GWOT doesn't mean it was "good" just that it was all we had) but even the SCAR had issues so you're left with the FAL or the HK91 variants and the attempts to modernize them. Maybe the Tavor 7 if you're into bullpups and can live with their many downsides.

The Vepr 308 comment is true, they are great guns and could be bought and made 922r compliant for cheap but you also have to think about replacement parts. There aren't any, same with the AK-74 as a competitor to the 5.56 ARs (maybe changing with PSA getting in the game but quality is TBD). Something like the FAL and PTR while not an AR are pretty well supported.
 

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AR-10's don't work, never have. Its why the military tried to bring out the SCAR (we all know the M-14 was a disaster and just because it was "still used" in GWOT doesn't mean it was "good" just that it was all we had) but even the SCAR had issues so you're left with the FAL or the HK91 variants and the attempts to modernize them. Maybe the Tavor 7 if you're into bullpups and can live with their many downsides.
Really? And pray tell, what platform is KAC M110 SASS?
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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8,888 Posts
AR-10's don't work, never have. Its why the military tried to bring out the SCAR (we all know the M-14 was a disaster and just because it was "still used" in GWOT doesn't mean it was "good" just that it was all we had) but even the SCAR had issues so you're left with the FAL or the HK91 variants and the attempts to modernize them. Maybe the Tavor 7 if you're into bullpups and can live with their many downsides.

The Vepr 308 comment is true, they are great guns and could be bought and made 922r compliant for cheap but you also have to think about replacement parts. There aren't any, same with the AK-74 as a competitor to the 5.56 ARs (maybe changing with PSA getting in the game but quality is TBD). Something like the FAL and PTR while not an AR are pretty well supported.
My AR-10 works just fine, thanks.

Sorry you've had such negative experiences.
 

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I often ask myself the same question. Over the years I have really loved the AR platform. While I love the M1 Garand and the M1A, the ease of modifying a AR makes the appeal grow.

The first Semi-Auto Deer Rifle I ever shot was my grandfathers Browning BAR Mark III in a 308. Rifle was surprisingly accurate out to 300-yards and a nice deer-slayer.

Now back to the future, if I were to want a featureless Semi-Auto in a 30-caliber, that would be it. However, I like to have my cake and eat it to.

So the AR-10 platform has a greater appeal to me now because I can change calibers with a simple barrel change. I can go from 308/7.62 to a 243 to a 6.5cm to a 7mm-08 to a 260Rem all within 15-minutes time with head-spacing, give or take, based upon the want/need.

Of course if you are just interested 30-caliber, then in sticking to the AR-15, the 300BLK is a 30 caliber and if you want a little more distance with good projectiles for hunting purposes (like smaller deer and antelope) the 6.5 Grendel is hard to beat out of that platform (as is the 6.8SPC). In some states you can legally hunt with a 223 with a 62gr pill, but I would rather use something more designed for the occasion and leaves a nice exit hole.

The beauty of 30-cal, if you reload, there are all kinds of bullet designs and weights to fit a particular need, by manufactures around the world. And you can shoot the NATO variant (7.62x51) just so long as the barrel is stamped for a .308, as a .308 is designed to handle more pressure than the 7.62x51 stamped barrels.
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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I would take an M14 over a SCAR. I would probably take a FAL over a SCAR.

Me thinks GP might not have the experience he would like us to believe.
#MeToo on the M-14. I've no experience with the FAL.

The rifle I used was actually an M-21 with the UNERTL scope, and it never gave me any problems.

But on one of the forums one of the participants was arguing the virtues of the SCAR over other AR-variant .308s, and stated: "...one of its more important attributes is that it has been used in combat".

I had to smile. (And be quiet.) Both the M-14 and the FAL have been used in combat. The SCAR is a more modern design, and it offers advantages such as being able to change barrels/calibers in the field - but how often do you change calibers of the rifle you carry while you're deployed? (And who carries the spare barrels while you're in the field?)

I think the SCAR is probably a great .308, but in terms of performance I suspect it offers only marginal improvement using issue ammo, if any, over the FAL or M14/M21. In terms of long range accuracy there is a reason why Camp Perry shooters widely use M1As in competition.
 
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