Even so, bashing workers while CEOs walk away with million for their mismanagment is shameful.
Disclaimer: I think everyone should do their best, at all times. That´s what you get paid for.

 

It would be bashing if it wasn't true, and yes, the CEOs are all overpaid as well but that doesn't excuse what the union has done to the domestic auto industry (or I should say what it helped doing) over the last three decades or so.

 

The american auto industry could pay their workers $250.000 a year if management listened to the market and kept the production up to par. They didn´t, they kept on producing gas guzzlers and lining their pockets and now you all pay the price.
At the same time and for the same reason, two of the biggest industries in my region, Volvo(owned by Ford) and SAAB(owned by GM), are in grave danger.
Their greed spills over on the entire world.

 

The top selling vehicles for the year are below. Notice that the Prius, and other hybrids aren't at the top of the list. A, gasp, gas burning pickup truck is. The price of gas dosen't matter, if you need a large vehicle than you need a large vehicle.

The top ten best-selling vehicles of 2008 were:

1. Ford F-Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Camry

4. Honda Accord

5. Toyota Corolla

6. Honda Civic

7. Nissan Altima

8. Chevrolet Impala

9. Dodge Ram

10. Honda CR-V

By the way, the gas saver Prius is produced at a loss. So if the big three were to all suddenly start to produce cars like it, then they would lose money on each and every car. I only picked the prius because it's the one that the politicans and media seem to love the most. I do drive a small, gas efficient car. But I need my F150 pickup for hauling stuff on the farm.

The problem isn't the cars they make, but people's inability to buy cars in this economy. Combined with the automobile companies inability to cut costs in bad time. Most people shouldn't buy new cars anyway. Unless you can save the money to buy the whole thing outright, most people would be better buying a good used car.

I hate the whole bailout culture. I also hate the entitlement culture that believes that businesses are created to give all their money to the workers.
($250,000 - please, most doctors don't even make that.)

 

QUOTEoliticians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over!

I could not get past this paragragh as I know he is "Republican old wealth" that has no concept of what is going on in the world today. Unions have already made a lot of consessions as stated gere before and are one of the few jobs left that actually still try and give the worker a living wage . I just can not grasp this hatred for am orginization that actually gives workers a living wage.

My question is simple . Would you rather we go to all illegal workers basically "slave labor" now, and then have a few noblemen and czars like in some countries????

If any one should have got a loan it would be the car manufactures, although I believe that a high speed transit sytem is also needed in The United States of America!

PS I doubt this letter was ever written (DISCLAIMER)

 

I just can not grasp this hatred for am organization that actually gives workers a living wage.

My question is simple . Would you rather we go to all illegal workers basically "slave labor" now, and then have a few noblemen and czars like in some countries????

Unions have a place in the order of things but they have overstepped their boundaries a long time ago and are doing as much damaged as good.

Do you really thing that it is fair and appropriate that a company has to keep paying 90% of a worker's wage for two years if they can't employ him anymore due to economic factors?

Nobody is talking about slave labor. How about a fair wage and fair benefits, based in reality and on common sense? Do you really feel that someone tightening screws with an impact gun deserves 60 to 80 thousand dollars a year (not to speak of all the entitlements secured as benefits) ? If that's the case, how much do you think a fireman or a teacher should get?

If the value of the wage should reflect the value of the work and the product, don't you think that most other sectors are way underpaid?

As anyone with the most basic grasp of economic concepts and reality can tell you, the result of that can only lead to the kind of aberrations and system malfunctions that we are witnessing today.

 

Despierto, no disrespect intended but I think that living in one of the most socialist country in the world might be skewing your view of things a little, whether you adhere to the socialist "pie in the sky" dream or not.

The only way turning a wrench should be worth a quarter million dollars a year is if being a firefighter (for example) was worth a million dollars a year and entry level house was two million bux.

There has to be a well established proportional value relationship between the economic components of a system or else it would all become a set of aberrations.

 

The only way turning a wrench should be worth a quarter million dollars a year is if being a firefighter (for example) was worth a million dollars a year and entry level house was two million bux.

If the firefighter worked for a county of well payed auto workers he might... The thing is I wrote "could". The Big Three were money machines, that´s how they could "over pay" their workers. If management would´ve managed properly they would still be.

 

it's all relative in regards to wages and depends on economics and currencies.
10 indian workers at tata motors cost what one uaw worker at gm makes.
but still wouldn't want to drive a indian-made tata,this century's yugo.
i invested in geely auto and cherry auto in china and those will be the new gms and fords this century.
india national iq-81
china national iq-100

 

Snopes says it's real: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox.asp

I'm not a union hater, I think they had their niche, they filled it and now they are outdated and outlived. If you look at where all of the manufacturing is beginning to take place in this country, it is in a right-to-work state, not Detroit.

I'm an engineer and where I work, half of our labor force is unionized. The other half is individual technicians that are their own bargaining unit and therefore negotiate their own salary/benefits upon hire. I was a technician before completing my B.S., and it is quite apparent the amount of work that gets done with individuals that know that the harder they work, the better of a raise they get. All of the union members get the same raise regardless. So, what happens is that you get a few lazy union members and they start dragging everyone down because it kills the morale when one guy sees another laying on his ass getting the same pay and same raises.

From what I've experienced and seen at my job place, unions are socialistic in nature and therefore they tend to diminish a man's drive and motivation because everyone is the same. That "uniformity" is BS in my opinion. I think I'm a great worker, I don't want my hard work, innovation, and abilities lumped in with another dumba$$ when salaries are negotiated. I'm secure in my abilities and don't need the support of a group to get and keep a good paying job.

 

For the big 3 to survive, there HAVE to be cuts on all levels, and they need to start production on vehicles people actually want.
For example there is an Indian truck company that is about to start selling in the states, they are bringing a truck that will compete with the ford ranger, but their truck is diesel, it will have the same power as its American counterparts, but will get 30mpg standard, 40 mpg with the hybrid model.

The big kicker is that last I heard, the unions will not do what it has to do to keep the companies running… they wont let go of any part of their fat pension accounts….

Good luck collecting off a non-existent company.

 

It's called sucking a titty dry. They can keep squeezing but the milk has ran out.

 

60 to 80 k per year to tighten a screw???? I would need to see some concrete facts and figures. I doubt the average worker at the big three is pulling in this kinda change!!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1234921/average_uaw_pay_28_not_70.html

 

The average salary is $65K/yr.


Assembly Line Salary At GM-Average



The average hourly wage for basic labor is $28/hr. plus $48/hr in benefits:

Hourly wages and benefits for GM assembly line workers

 

Okay, check out this link (down towards the bottom): http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

Note that the average GM worker is compensated at $73/hour. Now that includes benefits, not their actual hourly rate of pay. However, the rule of thumb is that your actual salary is half of your compensation. So, using the $73/hr figure:

~$36/hr would be their hourly pay rate.

$36/hr x 2080 (working hours in a year) = $74,880 without overtime.

Sounds very plausible to me.

 

It is a sentiment shared here in Australia too.

 

simple supply and demand... as i recall mid 08 there were new Dodge 1500s available for $10,000 and Fords for 15K… why do you think they closed one of the plants for large SUV’s and Trucks…

Yes the hybrids did not move as much volume as others, (fleet cars/trucks mess up the list you have) but across the board in the private market there are waiting lists at dealerships for them, while at the same time they have huge supplies of large SUV’s and trucks that will not move.

That is the reality that is on the ground…. There is a saying, Stats always lie…

 

sorry comp hick-up double post

 

Verified with snopes.com [who got an e-mail back from someone using the guy's e-mail, if nothing else] that this is real.

 

It's funny because it's true...

 

My favorite is how the unions like to talk about how they conceded to let entry level pay for many positions drop all the way down to 12$... but when you are laying everyone off where are all these 12$ employees being hired(like the union wouldn't wage a war if they started hiring people while loyal due paying members are getting laid off...)?

 

I can't wait til the big the big three go out of business <snicker>. hate thy neighbor.
Life is good.

 

Here's some food for thought....cars and models change every year, you have a mechanic that say works at a dealership making $40K a year after he's been at it say 20 years. He knows the cars inside and out, constantly training and learning the newer models. Now you have a guy driving a floor sweeper at the local GM assembly plant, couldn't tell you where the oil filter is on a Silverado needless to say fix one. Now with overtime and tenure, the floor sweeper guy is pulling down almost 6 figures a year!?!
I say let em fail. Where was the government to bail out the steel industry or the textile industry....oh wait....those WEREN'T UAW organizations...my fault.

 

I CAIN'T Wait!!

showem alll

It's a race to the bottom the middle are too stupid to see

 

My whole beef with bailouts is that American tax payers are going to bail them out....and then buy the cars too? So is GM, Ford, and Dodge going to give us a big discount since our dollars bailed them out? Are we going to get some check back with interest from the big 3 in a few years?

So let's see, they "bend us over" when we buy a car and then we are supposed to give them more money? Forget that. There are ramifications for going against the most basic of principles in the free market system...

 

"tacoma" you're scum. jap lover.

 

Wow. Your ignorance is appalling. Instead of having anything intelligent to say, that's your comment? Your insecurity in your lack of intelligence is quite obvious to everyone. Go crawl back into your hole...

 

What about the bank bail out? How come nobody is mad at the banks?? Seems we should boycott the banks then with this logic.

Does anyone here understand that the only thing that makes our economy go around is people that are fortunate enough to have a good paying job?? And yes, good pensions so they actually can afford to buy stuff and not be a burden on their kids when they retire. Some of the posts on here are so unAmerican it is amazing!!!

 

Does anyone here understand that the only thing that makes our economy go around is people that are fortunate enough to have a good paying job?

If they have good paying jobs, why are they coming to "us, the people" with their cap in hand?

Why are the poor saps who don't have good paying jobs have to bail out the ones who do?

The Messiah is now saying that "we'll all have to sacrifice from here on". Well, some people have been ..."sacrificing" for a long time and they just simply don't have anything else to give.

 

Okay lets go on that logic. The auto workers make to much $28 per hour. First off is this why the company is in trouble?? Seems like no cars are selling at the moment. So that to me seems the problem.

Second ,How much do you think it takes to support yourself today with no gov. aid. I would be willing to bet that $20 per hour is required and if you are frugal and save maybe . maybe you can buy a modest home.

Third , if people have no pension plan, consider that social security will not cut it . How do you suppose that people are going to survive in their retirement??

Seems like we can agree to disagree , but the only ones that I see doing okay are ones that have union jobs and benefits or people that really took huge risk and started thier own business or invested and got lucky, so I am not goin to comment anymore. I can listen to other opinions, but on this I disagree.

 

Okay lets go on that logic. The auto workers make to much $28 per hour. First off is this why the company is in trouble?? Seems like no cars are selling at the moment. So that to me seems the problem.

Not necessarily. Look at Honda. They made a profit last quarter. It's really an overall package deal. High labor rates, a crappy product, and years of bad business practice is what has come back to bite the Big Three.

Third , if people have no pension plan, consider that social security will not cut it . How do you suppose that people are going to survive in their retirement??

People shouldn't depend on social security. That's why I began a Roth IRA when I was 19. If people are depending upon social security, it's bad planning on their part. To depend on the government is to put your security in someone else's hands. I try to minimize this as much as possible in my life.

Seems like we can agree to disagree , but the only ones that I see doing okay are ones that have union jobs and benefits or people that really took huge risk and started thier own business or invested and got lucky, so I am not goin to comment anymore. I can listen to other opinions, but on this I disagree.

Wrong. People with an education are probably doing okay on average. Furthermore, I think those in the union have been slowly suffering over the years and this economy will speed that up. The union's membership has been in decline for decades. NAFTA, foreign manufacturing, and right-to-work states in the south have contributed to the loss of overpaying union jobs in the north. That's a fact. The union is cutting its own throat. Ask yourself why Hyundai, Toyota, VW, Honda, etc aren't being plants in Detroit. Look up where they are building. They are all in right to work states where they don't have to pay that inflated labor wage. Plenty of the second and third tier companies also have fair pay and benefits. This is what happens to the union when they try to pay an urealistic rate. It eventually contributes to the decline of the company.

 

If you join a union you lose your singular identity, you are now just one interchangeble piece. Your individual work no longer matters just keep the union running. Like it or not you are judged by the least person in your group.

For unions to have a place in the truely competitive work place they must police their own! How often does the union take the lowest contributor and make them improve or get out? If they have a slacker do they fix the situation or do they file grievences when management tries?

If the union can't show why their laborers provide superior services why should they be used? Superior work ethic? Superior training? Superior skills? Or is it simply superior pay?

 

Here's my stance on the CEOs and their pay:

I hear all of the time how ridiculous a CEO's pay is. I don't neccessarily believe that. I look at a CEO like a head football coach. In TN, college football is big and we pay our coaches well.

When a new coach comes in and starts making improvements and winning games, etc, everyone wants the coach to get a raise so we keep him and therefore keep up good play. When a coach stinks, people want him fired and they want to spend more money figuring that more money will get them a better coach and better results.

CEO's pretty much fall under that same menatlity. When a new CEO gets hired, he can come in, make changes and take a company in the red and turn it in to the black. Therefore improving the business for every employee. A CEO's decisions can make or break a company. He can take a business losing money and have them making tens of millions. So how vital was his vision and decisions? Very important. So paying a guy a million or two that made decisions that change the bottom line by tens of million is well worth it.

A CEO's job is also very volatile. He could suck and cost the company money therefore security may be near non-existent as a CEO. There is balance in the system and a reason companies are willing to pay managers and CEO's the big bucks.

For all of you that disagree with CEO's making millions, you need to read about Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream and their vision of "linked prosperity." Essentially, Ben & Jerry established a pay formula that from the janitors to the CEO, no employee made more than 2 or 3 times than another in salary. For instance, if a janitor made $5 per hour, then the CEO couldn't make more than $10 or $15. They quickly realized this wouldn't work. If you paid the janitors enough in order to make the CEO pay attractive, they couldn't afford it. However if you paid the janitors minimum wage, you'll never get CEO's to work for $15 per hour.

 

For all of you that disagree with CEO's making millions, you need to read about Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream and their vision of "linked prosperity." Essentially, Ben & Jerry established a pay formula that from the janitors to the CEO, no employee made more than 2 or 3 times than another in salary. For instance, if a janitor made $5 per hour, then the CEO couldn't make more than $10 or $15. They quickly realized this wouldn't work. If you paid the janitors enough in order to make the CEO pay attractive, they couldn't afford it. However if you paid the janitors minimum wage, you'll never get CEO's to work for $15 per hour.

This merely means that B&J have to reassess their buisness model.

There is something to this Linked Prosperity idea, and there is NO WAY that I will accept that CEOs should be paid some 200x+ the salary of the dude at the bottom of the totem pole. It is completely UNFAIR, and there is NOTHING that anyone can say or do to change my mind about this.

Oh, and the unions are the ONLY tool available to workers to make the playing field more even, and to prevent the exploitation of workers which is SO RAMPANT today.

 

My buddy who was GM Management for a shift in Delaware making $65 an hour back in the 90s to "supervise" as she literally NAPPED the time away thanks you.

She finally became so bored she quit and went to work for Mack.

I'm surprised at how naive people are here OF COURSE this goes on.

In any event, it is too late. Nothing we can do now is going to fix this. It is going (the economy) run its course. Nothing Obama can do now can fix it. The ripple effect is doing its thing.