Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Amateur of all trades
Joined
·
706 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's the backstory.
This past summer, the G&F removed and euthanised 2 griz in my neighborhood. Each were a couple miles up/down stream of the creek that flows 20 feet off my back deck. I'm thinking the creek is a migration route for our burgeoning grizzly population. They are being considered for removal from the "endangered species list" and inclusion into a hunting season/tag (yes I WILL be wanting one of those griz tags should they become available!). I always carry when out doors but mainly for pest control such as the errant rabid skunk, fox that feast on my pheasants and similar duties for life on the ranchette.

Options:
When sleep overs out on the wilderness retreat (BOL) a 12ga is my bed mate.
while out and about walking or on the dirtbike I usually have a 6" 386 (scandium S&W .357) with 7-158gr. I like this cuz of the convenience of light weight and shoulder holster. Sawed of 870 really is not comfortable or practical on a motorcycle. My other option is an 8-3/8" 460 mag with a front pouch holster.

The BIG question:
357 vs 460.
A (2 pound) 357 that could be deployed quickly and rip off 7 rounds semi-acurately. OR a 20 pound (lol) hand held Howitzer that I might be able to get off a second round deployed under stress.
I don't want to fire heavy weight bear loads in a light weight revolver. The 460 is as capable as a handgun could be for defense against anything smaller than T-rex.

No, I am not buying another gun.
Which would you carry in my situation?
Ah the joys and dilemmas of life in Paradise.
 

·
Bugged out already
Joined
·
4,833 Posts
The best bear defense is whats between your ears. Human activity, making noise, etc will drive away most bears. Still, I hang a rifle or shotgun and bear spray next to all my outbuildings and main dwelling where I'm working when bears are out and I carry a 454 Casull on my chest. People are always saying to carry a shotgun or rifle, but that's not practical for a lot of labor when outdoors.

With what you have the shotgun with slugs (some go buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug) is hard to beat. The 460 is a cannon, if you can manage it, it will do the trick! I don't know enough about the 357 with north american grizzlies. I've read where it can be effective against grizzlies. Not so much against Alaskan browns.

With that said, be bear smart and you will likely never need to use it. I'd still have the shotgun handy and one of your handgun on you.

Some people swear that pouring some bleach or spreading moth balls around the approaches work. This last year my wife tried this and we still had browns and blacks munching on our blueberries and raspberries.
 

·
"This is my Boomstick!"
Joined
·
1,774 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,023 Posts
When I was a kid my uncles where fighting over who got to sleep by the tent flap
We where on a week long hunt .
The second night a 600 lb grizz pulled him and his sleeping bag out from under the flap .
He was chewed up a little but ok .
After that no one wanted to sleep buy the door.
I've been trying to carry 4" 45/44 mag black hawk red hawk m29 s but they are to big for a EDC .
I just bought a Ruger seceruty six with a 3" barral 357 mag.
The 3" 357 mag is easyer to pack and shoot then the 2" Alaskan.
It is as easy to carry a small lever action or sawed off 12 g in a chest rig .
I hunt with 4 5/8 6" 7 1/2 44 mag or 45 colt . And use a chest rig , under arm sling, or cross draw holster all of them get in the way.
I have a large 65 lb racing / attack poodle , He is very fast ,very smart,and will sniff out a bear At 1 /2 mil.
We chased the bear that had my uncle with pots and pans . No shooting
 

·
Amateur of all trades
Joined
·
706 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Darthmuerte,
I'm thinking more towards heavy loads for the 357.
Killing a motivated apex/top of the food chain critter like a Grizz is not like the movies. First shot from ANY handgun has a low probability of instantaneous incapacitation. I think the lightweight 357 is my best bet for accurate follow-up shots.
 

·
Deplorable and 3%
Joined
·
6,656 Posts
Darthmuerte,
I'm thinking more towards heavy loads for the 357.
Killing a motivated apex/top of the food chain critter like a Grizz is not like the movies. First shot from ANY handgun has a low probability of instantaneous incapacitation. I think the lightweight 357 is my best bet for accurate follow-up shots.
Having never encountered a grizzly, I will defer to your experience in the matter. I know I would want at least a 44. Shooting modified weaver stance I can put all 6 into the kill zone of a human very consistently at 25-40 feet with an S&W 44 magnum with a 6" barrel. I would not expect a 1 shot, 1 kill for any large animal or human from any handgun. If a grizzly heads my way, he is getting all 6 rounds while I move toward my long guns lol.
 

·
Deplorable
Joined
·
4,356 Posts
Here's the backstory.
This past summer, the G&F removed and euthanised 2 griz in my neighborhood. Each were a couple miles up/down stream of the creek that flows 20 feet off my back deck. I'm thinking the creek is a migration route for our burgeoning grizzly population. They are being considered for removal from the "endangered species list" and inclusion into a hunting season/tag (yes I WILL be wanting one of those griz tags should they become available!). I always carry when out doors but mainly for pest control such as the errant rabid skunk, fox that feast on my pheasants and similar duties for life on the ranchette.

Options:
When sleep overs out on the wilderness retreat (BOL) a 12ga is my bed mate.
while out and about walking or on the dirtbike I usually have a 6" 386 (scandium S&W .357) with 7-158gr. I like this cuz of the convenience of light weight and shoulder holster. Sawed of 870 really is not comfortable or practical on a motorcycle. My other option is an 8-3/8" 460 mag with a front pouch holster.

The BIG question:
357 vs 460.
A (2 pound) 357 that could be deployed quickly and rip off 7 rounds semi-acurately. OR a 20 pound (lol) hand held Howitzer that I might be able to get off a second round deployed under stress.
I don't want to fire heavy weight bear loads in a light weight revolver. The 460 is as capable as a handgun could be for defense against anything smaller than T-rex.

No, I am not buying another gun.
Which would you carry in my situation?
Ah the joys and dilemmas of life in Paradise.
You're talking two different handguns that are not in the same class to compare, caliber-wise or size-wise. The 386XL weighs probably half of the 460, and has a barrel that is nearly 3" shorter. The 460 with the long barrel is as impractical as a handgun can be for anything but hunting with a bipod or shooting from a bench. It can't be deployed quickly in an emergency, and is a boat anchor to lug around. I get that you don't want to get another revolver, but you'd be better off with a 4" RedHawk in .44 Mag or a S&W 629. A 4" barrel will be easier to carry than the 6" or 8-3/8", easier to shoot, and will have enough takedown power in .44 Mag to cover all the bruin bases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Like you I am looking for a better option for traveling with some lead spitting bear repelant. The Toklat 454 in a chest rig is not a quickly accessible, in a min bike/ hiking situation. Forget the 18" 12 gauge as well for the same reasons. In my situation I am looking towards adding a g20 or 29 10mm, which loaded with some buffalo bores should give one a confident feeling of security. As far as carrying shotguns go, here in Alaska AKDept of fins n feathers recommends 3" sabot slugs, OO Buck is just going to pizz mr brownie off.

Back to op, go with the .357 with heavy loads like those buffalo bore offers.
 

·
Amateur of all trades
Joined
·
706 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
SunDog 907,
My last practical option is a .40 S&W Browning HP...
I keep hearing the 10mm is effective, but again I'm stuck with what's available.
Finances are geared towards other preps. Not looking to buy any more firearms or get into new calibers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
If you're set on a handgun, well placed .357 or .44 mag rounds should suffice. The Danish Slædepatruljen Sirius (long-range artic patrol) carries the 10mm Glock 20 for protection against polar bears. 15 rounds of 10mm that's similar in power to the .357 is better than 6 rounds of .357 IMHO.

If weight/size isn't an issue, I'd carry a shotgun with 3" mag 00-buckshot.
 

·
Live Secret, Live Happy
Joined
·
17,547 Posts
I had to shoot a black bear two yrs ago.

Damn thing had broken into a neighbors chicken coop and he has small children (but no big guns).

One round from a 44 mag Redhawk tore the back of his head off.

I would also trust my GP 100 with heavy 357 loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
Given the choices you presented...460.

My choices 4" gp100 with 200 gr hard cast loads or 44 mag with the heaviest hard cast load I can find.

The worst critters I have to deal with are yotes or boar.

Frankly, if I lived in griz territory I'd be married to a 45-70, it may be cumbersome but most marriages are.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,719 Posts
bear defense

If I am in lower altitudes, I just avoid high vegetation along creeks, and carry a 9mm for wolves, but if I venture into high country where I might encounter a grizzly, I take a Ruger single action 6-shot .41 magnum (plus a nine for wolves). Elmer Kieth called the .41 the gentleman's .44 mag. It has almost the same ballistics but with much less recoil. The problems with a .357 (I shoot that also.) is that the power is pretty marginal for bears plus that "crack" when you fire 158 grains has my ears ringing for quite a while.

If I were in Alaska, I wouldn't carry a handgun for defense. A shotgun a minimum against big brown bears! And I would never hike alone.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top