Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Interesting article (full text at link). This puts the choices that face us more succinctly than most other articles that I've read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18456131

Viewpoint: Why the young should welcome austerity.

Governments should be more honest about the size of their debts and young voters would be wise to get politicians to pay them off as soon as possible, says economic historian Niall Ferguson in the first of his BBC Reith Lectures.

...

Now, often these debts get discussed as if they themselves are the problem, and the result is a rather sterile argument between proponents of "austerity" and "stimulus".

I want to suggest that they are a consequence of a more profound malfunction.

The heart of the matter is the way public debt allows the current generation of voters to live at the expense of those as yet too young to vote or as yet unborn.

In this regard, the statistics commonly cited as government debt are themselves deeply misleading, for they encompass only the sums owed by governments in the form of bonds.

...

But the official debts in the form of bonds do not include the often far larger unfunded liabilities of welfare schemes like - to give the biggest American schemes - Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

The most recent estimate for the difference between the net present value of federal government liabilities and the net present value of future federal revenues is $200 trillion, nearly thirteen times the debt as stated by the U.S. Treasury.

...

In the enormous inter-generational transfers implied by current fiscal policies we see a shocking and perhaps unparalleled breach of precisely that partnership (Burke's social contract between the dead, the living, and those yet to be born).

...

It is surprisingly easy to win the support of young voters for policies that would ultimately make matters even worse for them, like maintaining defined benefit pensions for public employees.

If young Americans knew what was good for them, they would all be in the Tea Party.

A second problem is that today's Western democracies now play such a large part in redistributing income that politicians who argue for cutting expenditures nearly always run into the well-organised opposition of one or both of two groups: recipients of public sector pay and recipients of government benefits.

...

The simplistic answer - which has already been adopted in a number of American states as well as in Germany - is some kind of balanced budget amendment, which would reduce the discretion of lawmakers to engage in deficit spending, much as the practice of giving central banks independence reduced lawmakers' discretion over monetary policy.

The trouble is that the experience of the financial crisis has substantially strengthened the case for using the government deficit as a tool to stimulate the economy in times of recession.

...

In the good, but less likely scenario, the proponents of reform succeed, through a heroic effort of leadership, in persuading not only the young but also a significant proportion of their parents and grandparents to vote for a more responsible fiscal policy.

As I have already explained, this is very hard to do. But I believe there is a way of making such leadership more likely to succeed, and that is to alter the way in which governments account for their finances.

The present system is, to put it bluntly, fraudulent. There are no regularly published and accurate official balance sheets. Huge liabilities are simply hidden from view.

...

If we do not do these things - if we do not embark on a wholesale reform of government finance - then I am afraid we are going to end up with the bad, but more likely, second scenario.

Western democracies are going to carry on in their current feckless fashion until, one after another, they follow Greece and the other Mediterranean economies into the fiscal death spiral that begins with a loss of credibility, continues with a rise in borrowing costs, and ends as governments are forced to impose spending cuts and higher taxes at the worst possible moment.

In this scenario, the endgame involves some combination of default and inflation. We all end up as Argentina.

There is, it is true, a third possibility, and that is what we now see in Japan and the United States, and maybe also the United Kingdom.

The debt continues to mount up. But deflationary fears, central bank bond purchases and flight to safety from the rest of the world keeps government borrowing costs down at unprecedented lows.

The trouble with this scenario is that it also implies low to zero growth over decades: a new version of classic economist Adam Smith's stationary state, with economic growth slowing throughout the Western world.

...

We blame the politicians whose hard lot it is to bring public finances under control, but we also like to blame bankers and financial markets, as if their reckless lending was to blame for our reckless borrowing.

We bay for tougher regulation, though not of ourselves.
One of the largest problems that faces the Tea Party, I think, is the need to convince Americans that a balanced budget is not only a good thing, it is a necessary thing. That means that the American public must not only understand where these structural deficits will lead us, but also understand and accept that the only way out of this mess is to drastically cut spending in many popular programs.

Programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and Defense. Tax increases are also necessary to boost the receipts to GDP percentage back to 50 year historical norms - about 18.5 to 19% GDP (it currently stands at 17.5% GDP as of 2012 QI).

In short, a balanced budget should and must contain many different solutions - cuts to all programs and tax increases.

My 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,053 Posts
But they dont know better. Sometimes that is good, other times not so much. The problem with the young people is that they had faith that the older generation would set them up for success. We've not done that in the US in a very long time and each generation - the boomers and their parents - has decreased the value of this country a little at a time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,867 Posts
The Tea Party has an image problem, really. Its not about convincing people that a balanced budget is good. It's convincing people that by and large, the Tea Party isn't a GOP-marginalized puppet-party, whose primary platform is "We don't like Obama, he's a socialist, and a muslim". Because I think most people who look at the candidate the GOP put forth realize he'll not make any real changes, he'll be Obama redux in red clothing.

Part of the Tea Party's problem is that it has no organized leadership, and as a result, is unable to weed out the bad seeds. So what happens is that two voices end up being heard as the voice of the tea party, bigoted extremists, and big money. If the tea party had organized better early on, with a clear message, it might have really caught on. As it is, I think that Libertarians deliver what the Tea Party purported to promise. The only reason the Tea Party hasn't gone libertarian is that the Tea Party also has a number of social goals that are not related to the budget.....and that is what loses many of the otherwise budget-minded Americans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,626 Posts
The Tea Party has an image problem, really. Its not about convincing people that a balanced budget is good. It's convincing people that by and large, the Tea Party isn't a GOP-marginalized puppet-party, whose primary platform is "We don't like Obama, he's a socialist, and a muslim". Because I think most people who look at the candidate the GOP put forth realize he'll not make any real changes, he'll be Obama redux in red clothing.

Part of the Tea Party's problem is that it has no organized leadership, and as a result, is unable to weed out the bad seeds. So what happens is that two voices end up being heard as the voice of the tea party, bigoted extremists, and big money. If the tea party had organized better early on, with a clear message, it might have really caught on. As it is, I think that Libertarians deliver what the Tea Party purported to promise. The only reason the Tea Party hasn't gone libertarian is that the Tea Party also has a number of social goals that are not related to the budget.....and that is what loses many of the otherwise budget-minded Americans.
I'd have to agree with that completely. It's not by accident that the Tea Party is seen as a puppet of the GOP, because it has explicitly refused to be identified as a separate political party. Not that it would really help their image for me, I see all political parties as nothing more than publicly tolerated organized crime.

The philosophy of fiscal responsibility and a requirement for balanced budgets is certainly a good thing, but few politicians would support giving the US a dose of bitter medicine. Doing the right thing is not at the top of their priorities, keeping their power is.
 

·
Weed 'em and reap
Joined
·
30,792 Posts
Interesting article (full text at link). This puts the choices that face us more succinctly than most other articles that I've read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18456131



One of the largest problems that faces the Tea Party, I think, is the need to convince Americans that a balanced budget is not only a good thing, it is a necessary thing. That means that the American public must not only understand where these structural deficits will lead us, but also understand and accept that the only way out of this mess is to drastically cut spending in many popular programs.

Programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and Defense. Tax increases are also necessary to boost the receipts to GDP percentage back to 50 year historical norms - about 18.5 to 19% GDP (it currently stands at 17.5% GDP as of 2012 QI).

In short, a balanced budget should and must contain many different solutions - cuts to all programs and tax increases.

My 2 cents.
To paraphrase the average spoiled brat age 18-24, "But...but...but...America is different. That stuff can't happen here." :rolleyes:
 

·
Weed 'em and reap
Joined
·
30,792 Posts
The Tea Party has an image problem, really. Its not about convincing people that a balanced budget is good. It's convincing people that by and large, the Tea Party isn't a GOP-marginalized puppet-party, whose primary platform is "We don't like Obama, he's a socialist, and a muslim". Because I think most people who look at the candidate the GOP put forth realize he'll not make any real changes, he'll be Obama redux in red clothing.

Part of the Tea Party's problem is that it has no organized leadership, and as a result, is unable to weed out the bad seeds. So what happens is that two voices end up being heard as the voice of the tea party, bigoted extremists, and big money. If the tea party had organized better early on, with a clear message, it might have really caught on. As it is, I think that Libertarians deliver what the Tea Party purported to promise. The only reason the Tea Party hasn't gone libertarian is that the Tea Party also has a number of social goals that are not related to the budget.....and that is what loses many of the otherwise budget-minded Americans.
Can you name the bad seeds? I thought not. The myth that the TEA Party is Nazi racist KKK types trying to starve little brown babies is an invention of BOTH paties and the the media, running scared of objective truth. They can't find anything legitimate about people standing up for honest government, so they have to invent stuff or plant operatives.
 

·
Patient Zero of WWZ
Joined
·
5,334 Posts
can you name the bad seeds? I thought not. The myth that the tea party is nazi racist kkk types trying to starve little brown babies is an invention of both paties and the the media, running scared of objective truth. They can't find anything legitimate about people standing up for honest government, so they have to invent stuff or plant operatives.
qft!

1234567890
 
  • Like
Reactions: TRM

·
Patient Zero of WWZ
Joined
·
5,334 Posts
Even John Maynard Keynes said you need to pay off the national debt between crisis.

There is the big problem. We haven't been doing that.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,612 Posts
Interesting article (full text at link). This puts the choices that face us more succinctly than most other articles that I've read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18456131



One of the largest problems that faces the Tea Party, I think, is the need to convince Americans that a balanced budget is not only a good thing, it is a necessary thing. That means that the American public must not only understand where these structural deficits will lead us, but also understand and accept that the only way out of this mess is to drastically cut spending in many popular programs.

Programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and Defense. Tax increases are also necessary to boost the receipts to GDP percentage back to 50 year historical norms - about 18.5 to 19% GDP (it currently stands at 17.5% GDP as of 2012 QI).

In short, a balanced budget should and must contain many different solutions - cuts to all programs and tax increases.

My 2 cents.
Last time around you were advocating for keynesian/communist economics, this time for a balanced budget. Which one do you really favor? Because they are opposite of each other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,867 Posts
Can you name the bad seeds? I thought not. The myth that the TEA Party is Nazi racist KKK types trying to starve little brown babies is an invention of BOTH paties and the the media, running scared of objective truth. They can't find anything legitimate about people standing up for honest government, so they have to invent stuff or plant operatives.
If you don't think there's racists in the Tea Party, and show up at the rallies, you're just ignoring the obvious because it doesn't fit with the image you prefer. Are there some? Sure. However, you ENTIRELY miss my point, supposing that I am calling the Tea Party a KKK/racist organization - I do not, and you are projecting. Whether or not regarding party leadership that is the truth overall, is irrelevant. The loudest voices get heard, and that is the public perception. Read better, it will help your blood pressure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatBell

·
Cranky Old Guy
Joined
·
433 Posts
The Tea Party has an image problem because the liberal democratic mainstream media has made it so. This fits their political agenda.

The Republicans also don't particularly like the TP because the Republicans like their pork barrel projects and the TP wants to cut waste.

This is why nothing will change for the better.
 

·
Indefatigable
Joined
·
20,522 Posts
Until they stop whining about getting government out of health care while they are clutching their medicare cards, I will continue to ignore them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zatoichi

·
Bye everyone
Joined
·
1,059 Posts
Balance the budget all you want. When fiat currency is loaned into existence, the money doesn't exist to pay it's interest. The first dollar ever created is loaned to the government from the Fed. $1 bill plus interest. Where is the money to pay that interest? The Fed loans a second dollar with interest...now we owe $2 with interest but only have $2. The economy has to grow for it to work. With constant growth needed, how do you stop it from becoming an exponential system?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,867 Posts
The Tea Party has an image problem because the liberal democratic mainstream media has made it so. This fits their political agenda.

The Republicans also don't particularly like the TP because the Republicans like their pork barrel projects and the TP wants to cut waste.

This is why nothing will change for the better.
If you watched the Occupy rallies, which people did the cameras focus on? People with full body tattoos and piercings through both sides of their noses. Just like they focus at Tea Party rallies at the one or two guys holding racist signs. This "left-leaning mainstream media" garbage gets old. The most shocking or inflammatory thing is what leads at 6 and 10, left right or center...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,582 Posts
If young people knew better (not just Americans), there would be a global revolution. I sincerely doubt they would join the tea party though.

The fact is our youth are the product and image of us, which is a very sad thought.
 

·
Dirty or clean.Wet or dry
Joined
·
2,016 Posts
If young people knew better (not just Americans), there would be a global revolution. I sincerely doubt they would join the tea party though.

The fact is our youth are the product and image of us, which is a very sad thought.

The boomers: Medicare, social security, elderly in retirement "homes" :rolleyes:, while their children are raised by their 1969 losers that infiltrated the educational system.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top