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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I would personally find a BB gun to be extremely useful. Small-game hunting is a common first thought, but I'm also talking about self defense and such. I understand it probably doesn't have much "stopping" power, but after seeing a medium-power BB gun shot deep into the rubber of a car tire and hearing it hit the rim, I can see it does indeed have some penetration.

I think quite a few different BB guns could fit the job, but I'm not sure if there is one with these combined traits. If you're willing to help me, I'm searching for a BB gun with the following traits:

-Durability-
I'm actually not even sure if durability is a highly found trait, but I'll try to give some examples. I'm hoping metal materials won't rust or bend easily. Or, if the gun breaks, it is manufactured in a way that it is somewhat repairable, or salvageable from other BB guns or it's own.

-Accuracy-
I've heard the Daisy 499 is one of the most accurate BB guns, not sure about the power though. I'm not sure how much explanation this needs, but apparently the tighter the barrel is to the BB the more accurate, sounds right. Not sure of the difference between smooth bore and..whatever else there is.

-Silence-
Here's an important part to me. Actually one of the reasons I find BB guns useful in survival is that they're silent in the first place, but I've seen a "loudness" scale on some BB gun websites so I'm guessing you can make them pretty quiet. To use the BB gun as somewhat of a sniper(obviously closer range) seems the main point in seeing it as so useful, besides ammunition and etc. Obviously I hope you don't think I'm regarding this as a firefight weapon, since I'd try to stay away from that all-together. The BB's flight mid-air is also probably very silent.

If you know of such a BB gun that matches these qualities, even slightly... well that'd be awesome!
Maybe you'd find this as silly, but I see it useful in many situations.
It can be fatal if handled wrong, and can be fatal if handled right.

You'll poke your [enemy's] eye out! :p

Some example situations:
- If captured with the BB gun, you may be looked at as much less of a threat, maybe ridiculed to the point that you'd be safe.
- If grabbed and used against you, it may barely damage you(especially if it requires multiple pumps for further power, and the enemy may only pump once). It's low fire rate gives you the chance to attack, run, etc.*
- Can be used as safe and extremely cheap training.
- Not as big of a deal if lost/stolen/broken/etc.
- It's simpler mechanics than real guns possibly means an ease of constructing them yourself, as well as ammunition, with lower materials, danger, time, etc.
- Small wounds and other factors may cause hesitation/confusion/disbelief in possible nearby enemies, the target may not even know what just happened to himself considering the silence, lack of blood, being alive. Might mistake that sharp pain for something else.


*I wouldn't be using it for close encounters, only medium-long undetected precision. All this talk of lack of damage is what I consider a big upside rather than downside(besides, it's not like I'd ONLY have a BB gun), especially if I didn't even want to shoot to kill. I can still imagine some serious effect on an enemy if you placed an accurate shot to the eye(blind), cerebellum(paralyzed), lung. Random loss of sight or movement may also cause more of a panic in the individual rather than the overwhelming/numbing panic and acceptance of death.

Edit: It's always been an idea of mine to somehow get into designing survival equipment, so maybe in the future I can create the best BB gun I can for the job! As for now though, the search for pre-existing BB guns continue.
 

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Based on what you said, I'd recommend a crosman 2100. It fires BBs or pellets, and is multipump. The barrel sits inside a shroud that protects it and it is capable of pretty good accuracy with open sights. You can get extra pump cups and valves from Crosman and the gun is not too hard to take apart and repair.
If you wanted to spend a bit more a Benjamin 397 offers a tad more performance and is built a bit more solid. Crosman offers replacement parts for them as well.
For raw power, you can buy a decent springer for $100. Just be sure you can get replacement mainsprings and google making a spring compressor so you can repair it. A magnum springer does take a bit more practice to shoot accurately than the above mentioned multipumps.
After over a decade of shooting airguns, I recommend the .177 over .22. The ammo is cheaper, found everywhere, and offers better penetration especially when used with a springer or multipump charged all the way up.
Domed pellets offer the best all around performance, but you might have to experiment to find which brand works best in your airgun. You'll want to keep some pointed pellets on hand for tougher critters.
 

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Look into the GAMO WHISPERER pellet rifle.....With their special GAMO gold pellet it shoots 1200 fps...I have one and am very pleased with durability and accuracity ect......Do a Google search for it....
 

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I have a Daisy Powerline 880(same one as in stroyeror's first link) and it works well, and I got it with a scope at walmart for around $50. It is light weight but sturdy and has a rifled barrel.

Durability - I havent had any problems, small number of parts so almost nothing to go wrong, and it seems well built considering the price.

Accuracy - The only thing i'm not too pleased with is accuracy. Using cheap BBs the accuracy just sucks, but its not too bad with pellets as long as I clean the barrel regularly. The thing thats really annoying is that with different velocities (different number of pumps) the trajectory of the projectile is altered. So if you zero your scope for 50yards at 7 pumps, and you pump it the max which is ten times, you aren't on target. You have to pump it for what you zero'd it at in my experience.

Silence - Depends on how many times you pump it. Once or two pumps and its very quiet, but you have very low velocity. At ten pumps it gives a good little crack, but its not too bad.

Hope this helped.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I really like what you're finding!
The Gamo Whisperer "sounds" (pun :p) like it definitely fits the Silent category if it truly is silent! Unsure about the durability though.

As for the Chinese BB gun, that's the opposite! It sounds VERY durable, but I had also read it makes a very loud noise on shooting!

Thank you for finding these so far, definitely getting somewhere and learning a lot.

There are some other factors I should consider, for example the full metal Chinese air gun sounds very durable...but I do wonder how important weight is...then again I'm talking about a single shot weapon, so holding the gun for aiming for a single shot shouldn't wear a person out too bad. Maneuverability may be an issue.

I wonder if it is possible to design a multi-pump pneumatic BB gun that pumps by using some sort of crank, rather than the lever-action. Faster in-between shots, it may be quieter too. I was also thinking of other designs... such as a mechanism that went alongside the gun that when manually pulled back or something, it would open, say, a plug in the barrel or other entries, since I'd think that blocking those points would prevent from the elements.
Amazing, I seem to have more interest in designing than I thought.

Anyway, I have recently purchased the Crosman 2100 after extensive research on it and other guns. I'm not saying this is the gun of choice, but considering my "budget"... it is simply awesome.
 

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DONT get a co2 weapon unless you want to depend on getting co2 for it.the better ones for long term survival is a barrel break 1 cock airgun. those are the ones you want

this is what they can do :thumb:





anyone know what airgun they are useing in this video?it kinda looks like a bigbore


this is the one i got and i droped in the trigger they suggested in this video.

 

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No, you don't want a BB gun. Those are kid's toys.

You DO want an accurate, powerful air rifle. They are quite effective for small game hunting.

I have been shot with a BB gun: stung like hell, but didn't even penetrate.

I shoot a BB gun in my backyard. At 6 yards, it sometimes barely penetrates the stiff paper target.

Air guns are a different critter altogether. A friend of mine accidentally shot himself in the stomach with an Umarex C02 pistol - these are NOT tiop of the line models, power-wise: damn thing pentetrated his gut to a depth of 4 inches! :eek:

Jim
 

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Then again...

...I just read a review of this Daisy Powerline 880. If it's getting 750 fps with BB's, it's definitely powerful enough for small game hunting. :)

Jim
 

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I really like what you're finding!
The Gamo Whisperer "sounds" (pun :p) like it definitely fits the Silent category if it truly is silent! Unsure about the durability though.

As for the Chinese BB gun, that's the opposite! It sounds VERY durable, but I had also read it makes a very loud noise on shooting!

Thank you for finding these so far, definitely getting somewhere and learning a lot.

There are some other factors I should consider, for example the full metal Chinese air gun sounds very durable...but I do wonder how important weight is...then again I'm talking about a single shot weapon, so holding the gun for aiming for a single shot shouldn't wear a person out too bad. Maneuverability may be an issue.

I wonder if it is possible to design a multi-pump pneumatic BB gun that pumps by using some sort of crank, rather than the lever-action. Faster in-between shots, it may be quieter too. I was also thinking of other designs... such as a mechanism that went alongside the gun that when manually pulled back or something, it would open, say, a plug in the barrel or other entries, since I'd think that blocking those points would prevent from the elements.
Amazing, I seem to have more interest in designing than I thought.

Anyway, I have recently purchased the Crosman 2100 after extensive research on it and other guns. I'm not saying this is the gun of choice, but considering my "budget"... it is simply awesome.

A buddy of mine has one and its a good little critter getter.. Squirrels are no match for it.
 

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I am new here but I know a bit about making air powered rifles and the like. It is truely a simple matter too make your own air weapons cheaply and with very little in the way of tools. I could go on about this subject for pages but I'll just suggest you look up something along the lines of "high powered pneumatic potato cannon" on just about any serch sight on the net. You can learn enough in a few hours to be plnking rabbits and the like as soon as you gather the needed materials lol. That is if you'd prefer to make your own, the crossman mentioned in the previous post is a good plan if you want to buy an airgun.
 

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It can be fatal if handled wrong, and can be fatal if handled right.
You'll poke your [enemy's] eye out! :p

Some example situations:
- If captured with the BB gun, you may be looked at as much less of a threat, maybe ridiculed to the point that you'd be safe.
- If grabbed and used against you, it may barely damage you(especially if it requires multiple pumps for further power, and the enemy may only pump once). It's low fire rate gives you the chance to attack, run, etc.*

The Gamo Whisperer "sounds" (pun :p) like it definitely fits the Silent category if it truly is silent!
even with the atached souns supressor, it aint silent. you give up power (in the form of FPS) for silenance. any time you are releasing compresses gas, weather from a CO2 cylender, a air reservoir, or burnign powder, the harder it pushed, the more noise it makes.

also you need to look at the weight of the projectile. the lighter it is, the less penatration it will have. many of the cheap CO2 guns are going to just **** off who ever you are shooting them at. i have been hit by many of them, and it stings, but thats it.

shooting an eye, put some whole olives on golf tees and try shootign them off from a hundred yards (medium-long distances in the gun world). then run a half mile (to simulate the stress of needing to use it), drop to prone and try now.

pellet guns have there place, great small game getters, but anti people weapons they are not.
 

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Emclean has it right.

The question is whether air guns have a place in a survivalist's kit. They DO, and that place is for target practice, small game hunting, and vermin control. Their place is NOT for big game hunting, sniping / counter-sniping, or self defense: at least, not if you can get your hands on something more suitable for these purposes.

It's the same as a knife, pistol, hatchet, shotgun, etc. Airguns play a certain role(s); nothing plays every role.

Jim
 

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Fatal Use Of Air Guns.

PAP Guns (Pistol, Assassination, Pneumatic) have been used for decades to eliminate targets at close range. Nearly silent, accurate enough for the job and quite deadly when functioning in their role. A single .22 caliber pellet entering the base of the skull at an upwards trajectory is nearly always fatal at 425 fps or more. A follow up shot (Double Tap) assures a successful mission. When first employed in this role the break barrel single shot was a popular choice as it is very quiet in operation, quick to reload and having an adjustable muzzle velocity made them a handy tool. They are not in use much anymore, being replaced by suppressed .22 caliber shorts but are still a viable choice for helping a sleeping target to "Sleep with the fishes".
 

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http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Hammerli_Air_Rifle_Nova_Pellet_Gun_p/ham-224-1009.htm

Think this is the one i have. .177 at 1000 fps which is close to a .22LR and more than subsonic .22LR Came with a 20x20 scope. Was $150 at Sports Authority on clearance, brand new.

Not as loud as my C02 pellet rifle. Break barrel is very heavy. After 25 consecutive shots or so, I'm tired. Accuracy is unknown to me because I never used it very much, mainly due to the pain of cocking it. I was shooting at this bird for about 3 days straight because it was making a lot of noise. Maybe 40 shots at it total from about the length of four 2-lane roads and about 70 feet up or so. I couldn't hit the fcker. Just saw a slight glimpse with the scope, so it was far. I'm thinking it's due to the heavy recoil that skewers the flight of the very light pellet. And the rifle is as heavy as my AK-47. It's just not fun to shoot.

I switched to my Crossman 2250 co2 rifle and got him after about 5 shots. Much more fun to shoot. It's much louder though.

Break barrels are very powerful though. I may try a break barrel handgun. Less power but should be less harder to cock. Pump guns, I'm not sure. Haven't had one since I was a kid. Pumping it 5-10x doesn't seem fun.

If you can't buy a gun due to where you are, felony record, or whatever....then this is pretty good. Pretty sure you can mess someone up real bad with one of those fancier pellets....can't remember, but they have harder/sharper tips, etc.
 

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I'm personally saving up for a Gamo Whisper VH Air Rifle, Gamo Recon Whisper Air Rifle, Daisy Model 105 Buck BB Carbine Air Gun, Crosman Pumpmaster Classic .177 Caliber Air Pistol, and a Crosman 357 .177 CO2 Pellet Pistol.
 
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