Baton used by riot police vs. plain wood baseball bat for defense

20906 Views 62 Replies 38 Participants Last post by MedicineBowWy, Dec 28, 2020

basketweave

Discussion Starter · Oct 14, 2019

Riot police use batons that I think are about 36". I don't know what they are typically made of, however. Is a person better off with that or a plain, wood baseball bat if he can't get to a gun.

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Uteguy

· #2 · Oct 14, 2019

The wooden bats are very heavy compared to the wooden baton.
I think an aluminum T-ball bat would be more than enough.
Keep a kid’s glove and a ball so you don’t have to explain anything
if you happen to get pulled over.

Reactions: 5

shado

· #3 · Oct 14, 2019

From the point of view of a legal perspective, a baseball bat is probably better. "Judge, I felt in fear of my life and grabbed my baseball bat at the spur of the moment and used it when I was being threatened." This sounds better than "I thought I might need to kill someone in self defense so I bought an expandable baton and learned to use it, then struck the scumbag on the temple this killing him."

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Aerindel

· #4 · Oct 14, 2019

It depends.

I spent many years stick fighting and played with a lot of these kinds of things.

A baseball bat is a lot heavier and hits much harder.

But its also a lot slower and harder to control.

A skilled baton fighter can take apart a guy with a baseball bat in seconds.

But, there are very very few skilled baton fighters. If we assume two people without much training the baseball bat will probably win simply through brute force as it takes some skill to take advantage of the batons inherent advantages.

But if both parties are trained the baton fighter has a lot of advantages in speed and range the bat fighter won't even if he is equally skilled.

So, if you're going to learn study stick fighting as martial art, a baton is by far the better option.

If you just want to pick up something and swing it, go with a baseball bat and hope you never have to fight someone who knows what they are doing.

FYI, police use batons because they mostly have very rudimentary training and are less likely to kill on accident with a baton than they are with a bat as you have to know what you are doing to generate lethal force with a baton, although again, if you are trained its potentially faster and deadlier than a bat.

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CrypticCRICKET

· #5 · Oct 14, 2019

The smaller wood or aluminum baseball bats for children are shorter and much lighter and easier to wield than adult size bats. I have a couple of the small bats. One is 26" long the other is 29" long. I see them in thrift shops all the time. Years ago I drilled holes through the sides of a small wood bat and drove framing nails through it and then cut the nail heads off to create 3/4" spikes on the end of the bat. Thankfully, I've never had reason to use it. It wouldn't be my first choice for a defensive tool.

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Big-D

· #6 · Oct 14, 2019

CrypticCRICKET said:
The smaller wood or aluminum baseball bats for children are shorter and much lighter and easier to wield than adult size bats. I have a couple of the small bats. One is 26" long the other is 29" long. I see them in thrift shops all the time. Years ago I drilled holes through the sides of a small wood bat and drove framing nails through it and then cut the nail heads off to create 3/4" spikes on the end of the bat. Thankfully, I've never had reason to use it. It wouldn't be my first choice for a defensive tool.

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ajole

· #7 · Oct 14, 2019

That bat full of nails sounds like a good way to end up in a courtroom, either criminal or civil...

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Aerindel

· #8 · Oct 14, 2019

ajole said:
That bat full of nails sounds like a good way to end up in a courtroom, either criminal or civil...

Like all weapons, it would depend on how you used it.

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ajole

· #9 · Oct 14, 2019

Like on people, vs a wild animal? Ok, sure.

But.

If you built that, and carried it, and then used it on a human...you better have some cuts and bruises, and maybe a bullet hole, to back your story.

You know that silly interwebz thing about SD use of reloads being a legal liability in court? That has actually only been a thing once?

This is that once, times a million.

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Aerindel

· #10 · Oct 14, 2019

You know that silly interwebz thing about SD use of reloads being a legal liability in court? That has actually only been a thing once?

What? there actually is one example of it? As far as I knew, it was only ever a silly thing and never actually a problem for a real person.

CrypticCRICKET

· #11 · Oct 14, 2019

ajole said:
That bat full of nails sounds like a good way to end up in a courtroom, either criminal or civil...

That could happen in some situations. I just re-read FL ch.790 and they are still legal in Florida provided you can legally have a weapon in your possession. You can't carry it concealed without a CCP. If you were to travel around with it in your vehicle without a CCP, it would probably need to be "not readily available" to be legal but you don't need a CCP to travel with it in your vehicle.

Florida stand your ground laws don't specify what legal weapons can or can't be used to stop a threat. We have a civil immunity law here that protects people from being successfully sued by their attackers when you are defending yourself legally. If sued in civil court you will have to go to court to prove your immunity but no matter what weapon you use or even no weapon used at all, defending your immunity still applies.

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bunkerbuster

· #12 · Oct 14, 2019

I have a few telescoping steel batons. They are BONE crushers.

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Aerindel

· #13 · Oct 14, 2019

2

bunkerbuster said:
I have a few telescoping steel batons. They are BONE crushers.

My favorite non-gun weapon.....

I like the black stainless versions. I had trouble with the regular ones rusting over time.

well....my second favorite none gun weapon.

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William Ashley

· #14 · Oct 14, 2019

If you want to know about improvised weapons watch Jackie Chan.

None the less what was your second the morning star or the gladius?

Anything can be turned into a weapon in a situation of need.

As far as using a bat or a baton, it would ultimately be what you are better trained wit.

Fighting with a bat as a baseball swing is generally not a very smart fighting form - however against an unarmed person it could be devestating. A club is ultimately a very crude weapon.

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basketweave

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 14, 2019

bunkerbuster said:
I have a few telescoping steel batons. They are BONE crushers.

I'm not familiar with those. Does contact need to be made with the end of the baton, the part that is wider and round?

cook

· #16 · Oct 14, 2019

But you can't twirl a bat like a baton that the older cops used to do.

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Aerindel

· #17 · Oct 14, 2019

basketweave said:
I'm not familiar with those. Does contact need to be made with the end of the baton, the part that is wider and round?

Contact can be made anywhere. Expandable batons are three pieces of tapered steel pipe nestled inside each other. When you flick your wrist they telescope out and lock in place, making a short steel baton three times longer than they where before. To get them to unlock you have to strike the tip against a hard surface. You can strike your target with any part of them, the little bit on the tip is just to make round, “safer” surface.

In practice, they are like having a 26” steel pipe that up you can keep in your pocket.

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bunkerbuster

· #18 · Oct 14, 2019

Aerindel said:
My favorite non-gun weapon.....

I like the black stainless versions. I had trouble with the regular ones rusting over time.

I give the regular steel ones a coating of (believe it or not) a product called RainX Windshield Treatment for rust prevention.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/RAIN-X-W...nufactured-in-US-By-RainX-Chemicals/994589473

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ROCK6

· #19 · Oct 14, 2019

Aerindel said:
Contact can be made anywhere. Expandable batons are three pieces of tapered steel pipe nestled inside each other. When you flick your wrist they telescope out and lock in place, making a short steel baton three times longer than they where before. To get them to unlock you have to strike the tip against a hard surface. You can strike your target with any part of them, the little bit on the tip is just to make round, “safer” surface.

In practice, they are like having a 26” steel pipe that up you can keep in your pocket.

Only chiming in to add that such collapsible batons are tools to disable a threat. My rudimentary training was focused on targeting joints and certain nerve centers; striking certain areas can be devastating to the threat and end their aggression quickly. However, in untrained hands, you may very well just tick your threat off whacking indiscriminately. From my non-lethal training, the head was off limits and I could imagine it would be pretty lethal if targeting the neck area as well.

ROCK6

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bunkerbuster

· #20 · Oct 14, 2019

ROCK6 said:
Only chiming in to add that such collapsible batons are tools to disable a threat. My rudimentary training was focused on targeting joints and certain nerve centers; striking certain areas can be devastating to the threat and end their aggression quickly. However, in untrained hands, you may very well just tick your threat off whacking indiscriminately. From my non-lethal training, the head was off limits and I could imagine it would be pretty lethal if targeting the neck area as well.

ROCK6

Years back, I stopped a large aggressive adult PIT BULL from ripping another dog apart, with one indiscriminate whack with a telescoping steel baton.

The blow was indiscriminate because I was running at the pit bull & didn't really have time to plan, coordinate & aim the blow.

No matter, the blow was a solid hit & sent the SOB retreating squealing like a pig that just got a broken leg.

Those things inflict massive pain, if swung with some strength behind it.

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