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Hokie
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Discussion Starter #1
I've read many survival books, and the modern SHTF books, but have always wondered about the role of law enforcement and/or military as the world falls apart around them, and their effect on my potential survival. Though gun laws are relatively relaxed in my state, my worry is that when SHTF, the police or military will enact extraordinary measures as society and civil rights disappear. These might include confiscating weapons when people are bugging out of suburban areas (such as my own) towards their pre-planned bug out locations. I worry that my compliment of firearms and military-esque equipment (camo bags, backpacks, etc.) will draw attention to myself and put me at a greater chance of forced confiscation of supplies. This equipment gives me a leg up when societal collapse is complete, but in the confusion after a NBC disaster, it may just be a target and put me at risk of being killed on my way out of town. I read recently in a modern SHTF book that military surplus bags, backpacks, etc. (the majority of my collection) will draw this attention and confiscation. So I pose two generalized questions:

1) What's the common consensus on post-SHTF law enforcement and/or military interference in survivalist bug-out? Will they be likely to confiscate weapons and/or supplies that were legally bought when society existed? How do you avoid this from happening? I don't want to buy a collapsible .22 rifle and solely rely on it + pistols hidden in a bright orange civilian backpack. I don't want my food confiscated for "the general good." I don't want to be contained and barred from migrating locations as well.

2) What's the common consensus on military-style equipment vs. civilian equipment, so as not to draw unwanted attention by these military or police forces when bugging out?

It's always been my belief that in a true NBC SHTF situation, military and police will exist for a very short time until true collapse is recognized, and they will only serve to interfere in the survival of those of us who prepped long before. Any advice or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

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1) What's the common consensus on post-SHTF law enforcement and/or military interference in survivalist bug-out? Will they be likely to confiscate weapons and/or supplies that were legally bought when society existed? How do you avoid this from happening? I don't want to buy a collapsible .22 rifle and solely rely on it + pistols hidden in a bright orange civilian backpack. I don't want my food confiscated for "the general good." I don't want to be contained and barred from migrating locations as well.
Buy some cheap throw away guns, give em those. Bury some as a last resort.

2) What's the common consensus on military-style equipment vs. civilian equipment, so as not to draw unwanted attention by these military or police forces when bugging out?
I think the military and police should be avoided at all costs. Take backroads to the BOL. Stay off the beaten path. Keep a good supply at the BOL just in case you do get robbed by the soldiers or cops.
It's always been my belief that in a true NBC SHTF situation, military and police will exist for a very short time until true collapse is recognized, and they will only serve to interfere in the survival of those of us who prepped long before. Any advice or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Dont put all your eggs in one basket.
 

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in the event of a truly catastrophic breakdown, i.e. an EMP strike, it's a safe bet traditional lines of military and LEO will break down. Not suggesting they'll go rogue, just saying that when communication ends, and paychecks stop, I expect they'll be concentrating on survival like the rest of us. Katrina, Andrew, etc, were localized events, so communication / supply etc still existed, just briefly interrupted. Make sense?
 

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... --- ...
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1) What's the common consensus on post-SHTF law enforcement and/or military interference in survivalist bug-out? Will they be likely to confiscate weapons and/or supplies that were legally bought when society existed?
I've often argued the opposite, but it seems to me that the "common consensus" here is that the military and police are chock-full of Constitutionally aware and loyal patriots, that will resist the orders of their superiors, and support "The Uprising", blah,blah,blah.
Of course, this is all bull$***, and history bears this out.
Our government has proven that it will stop at nothing when it comes to it's own survival, and it's absolute authority.
I have no doubt, they would nuke an entire city before they would surrender their power and genuinely submit to the will of the people.
 

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Gettin By
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there's very little to wonder about ... Katrina answered that .... the national guard grabbed every gun they came across ....

in regard having military issue surplus, as part of your bug out supplies .... if it's current issue and troops are being killed and looted .... you can expect quik judgement
Correction on the NG taking guns. That was the New Orleans PD that did that under orders of Mayor Ray Nagan. The NRA got an emergengy Federal Court order barring them from any more confiscations, but the damage was done by then.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-08-nra-katrina_N.htm

The state of Utah has recently passed a law which directly addresses this issue and prohibits Law Enforcement from seizing firearms in the event of a Statewide/ national Emergency.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE63K/htm/63K04_040500.htm

This is the only state I am aware of that has this type of law in place. Sounds like it may not be too bad a place to move to.
 

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I've often argued the opposite, but it seems to me that the "common consensus" here is that the military and police are chock-full of Constitutionally aware and loyal patriots, that will resist the orders of their superiors, and support "The Uprising", blah,blah,blah.
one thing I've always found ironic.

the constitution gives congress the authority to tax. and the government the authority to take private property with due process. there are laws on the books stating that the government may take private property in times of great national need.

so then why is it that a patriot would defend people who dont want the government to find their hoard? The government is faced with a never before seen existential emergency such as an emp strike, an emergency that could topple the greatest nation that ever was. wouldnt the true patriots be the ones doing all that they can to give aid to their fellow americans in need, and to preserve the union? the people who dont want to pay their fair share and dont want to support the system, who hide their money in hidden bank accounts are never called patriots. how could you call someone who is hiding essential supplies in some underground cache, instead of contributing their 'fair share' a patriot? that sounds like a traitor to me.
 

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one thing I've always found ironic.

the constitution gives congress the authority to tax. and the government the authority to take private property with due process. there are laws on the books stating that the government may take private property in times of great national need.

so then why is it that a patriot would defend people who dont want the government to find their hoard? The government is faced with a never before seen existential emergency such as an emp strike, an emergency that could topple the greatest nation that ever was. wouldnt the true patriots be the ones doing all that they can to give aid to their fellow americans in need, and to preserve the union? the people who dont want to pay their fair share and dont want to support the system, who hide their money in hidden bank accounts are never called patriots. how could you call someone who is hiding essential supplies in some underground cache, instead of contributing their 'fair share' a patriot? that sounds like a traitor to me.
I see you are a fan of 'Redistribution of Wealth'. Sad, my friend. Very sad.
 

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I see you are a fan of 'Redistribution of Wealth'. Sad, my friend. Very sad.
during the normal operation of the nation, only on a very limited basis

when this nation faces an existential threat, then yes. redistribute whatever you have to.

do you support draftees hiding in canada?

how can you support the government taking the lives of our fighting men and women, but not your superpails of rice?
 

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Gas! Gas! Gas!
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Hokie, maybe get a large duffel bag (like the military OD green ones) that is colored something like brown... heck, even the OD ones are so common a way to carry stuff, it would hardly attract attention. You can find the OD ones at thrift stores... they are very common. But, if the OD thing makes you nervous, dye it or get one that is neutrally colored. All your camouflaged tactical stuff can fit inside the duffel... they are large enough for most firearms, too. Also, those GI duffels are pretty darn tough.
 

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Oath Keeper
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Opinion:

Everyones situation will be different, ie., State, area, location, perceived appearence, list of registered gun holders?.

I think it will be a nasty SHTF & they (the ones maintaining law or other) will disarm u without any doubt, authority or lack off...

Suggest the civilian look but be a wolf in sheeps clothing / homeless look

Stay out of public, avoid main roads (they will have check points & will disarm u & take what ever they like from u)

Home to home checks will vary on location

Separate cache's of food, weapons, etc in hidden & different address locations if possible

If it's bad enough, many Leo's/ military will probably just take care of the family's?
 

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Law Enforcement won't confiscate your guns and equipment unless civilians are attacking military and police and looting them. Don't **** them off by shooting them, it'll be your last mistake.
 

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split up your stuff

1. do not hide everything in one spot
2. split up your food and guns into several spots
3. put some of each item in each hiding spot
4. one location can be your throw-down hiding spot
5. think out of the box
6. throw down guns, food and first aid items might save your good stuff
7. don't trust anyone you don't know really well use your head
8. metal or plastic trash cans or drums below ground level make good cheep hides, pick hill sides just off the ridges and hill tops
9. make it easy for only you to find
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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#1 most important thing will probably be to stay hidden; this can be hiding in plain sight or really hiding.

Everything I do will aid me in the above objective. Things like not looking overly "military", unless I'm trying to present a hard target, will probably go a long way in reducing unwanted attention. Just the same, running around with a civvy style backpack looks just as suspicious. It’s not a complicated idea; blend in.

I agree that not keeping all your supplies in one spot is a good idea but there are just as many negatives to this as there are positives. Caches in my area would mean that I'd have to put stuff on public or someone else’s private property. IDK about you but I really don’t feel like tramping around to find my preps when SHTF, if I don’t have to. I think a better idea is to strive to stay as mobile as possible with your preps.

We must keep in mind that when SHTF, it’s probably not going to be some incredibly recognizable event. Police will act like they do in any other emergency. Expect roads being blocked and checkpoints. Going along with the crowd will lessen your signature but will undoubtedly slow you down.
 

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Stop being on my side!
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there's very little to wonder about ... Katrina answered that .... the national guard grabbed every gun they came across .
During the post-Katrina SOE in Mississippi, I interacted with National Guard, local cops, and out of state cops while carrying openly. Never had a problem with any of them.

Correction on the NG taking guns. That was the New Orleans PD that did that under orders of Mayor Ray Nagan. The NRA got an emergengy Federal Court order barring them from any more confiscations, but the damage was done by then.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-08-nra-katrina_N.htm

The state of Utah has recently passed a law which directly addresses this issue and prohibits Law Enforcement from seizing firearms in the event of a Statewide/ national Emergency.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE63K/htm/63K04_040500.htm

This is the only state I am aware of that has this type of law in place. Sounds like it may not be too bad a place to move to.
Louisiana, Mississippi, and a few other states passed similar laws pretty quickly.

http://jurist.org/thisday/2011/07/senate-approved-measure-to-bar-emergency-gun-confiscation.php
 

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When Katrina hit, the NO police department acted like legalized looters. It was shocking that they would take the last line of defense from law abiding citizens.

The penalty given for such a horrendous violation of the US Constitution was minimal. They should be in jail to this day over that illegal act. The mayor too.

How they found time to do that when there were real crimes being committed is beyond me.
 

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Keep in mind the following regarding this subject:

A) Police and military aren't unthinking robots or fanatically obedient stormtroopers, no matter how a lot of people here like to view them. In a full blown disaster, paychecks stopped, backup non-existent, supplies limited, their families in danger, a lot of them are going to think, "Sod this for a game for sailors" and head home. The full blown "in cities go door to door smashing them down and confiscating, in the country set up roadblocks and stop everyone" SO MANY insist will be standard practice everywhere requires a MASSIVE amount of manpower; government, whether Federal, state, or local, is not going to have that...

B) Confiscation is a DANGEROUS business. If you start taking stuff from desperate people, those people may well respond with violence. How many soldiers do you think will keep grabbing stuff after they've seen several of their buddies get bullets in their brains from folks who refuse to go along, or who start retaliating by sniping from a distance?

C) If you wait until roadblocks are set up and cars being stopped to flee urban areas, you've waited too long.

D) Confiscators, unless they send off everything they get immediately, make themselves giant targets as they accumulate more stuff. Think of this not as a threat but as an opportunity for collective corrective action.

E) The chance of a collapse is so small you might as well be worrying about what you'll do if you win the lottery. Actually, winning the lottery - or being hit by lightning - probably has a higher chance of happening. What plans have you made for lightning strikes?
 
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