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Nothing you said changes anything I said.
1) Who cares if china no longer gets its corn and soybeans? If we are at war, starving them is part of the strategy of war.
2) I don't know what Boeing is doing, making planes in China for the US government. Sounds like treason to me, but I would need some details. Educating China how to build a Boeing Airliner constitutes a massive breach of intellectual property. And the US Government would be well advised not to rely on any China made airplanes, for several reasons. Quality issues, and backdoors hidden in the control system. Having a critical USG plane simply drop out of the sky because China sent a kill signal to the controls would sort of endanger the United States.
Just / Wile,
The world trade issues are enormous. No single chart - no room full of charts - can diagram even the segments like US aircraft in China. Plus, much is not for the public to know.

In re 1); US corn and soybeans do not go to China for free.

In re 2); Boeing (USA) nearly went bankrupt. Boeing China, Inc makes major components of the aircraft for both China's fleet and some others.

"Treason" not part of the equation. All this discussed and debated well prior to any export license for anything issued. "Intellectual property" does involve trade-offs. They are minor however.

US Government (Again, don't read the Washington Post !) disagrees with you. Capital acquired, prevention of bankruptcy and avoiding massive US unemployment most important. Plus, any void would be filled by competitor AirBus Industrie.

Am not clear re "if we are at war...". Who is "we" ? The US is fractured and it started before US businesses entered China and continues even today. All the debates and unpublicized agreements worked out well prior to matters going public.

I know the real world trade danger but must read the forum rules again before I'd practice my typing here.

Will close by mentioning that if the ~ 2,000 + US companies leave China, US Government checks supporting such matters as such as California and New York pension funds, stop. Then there would be domestic problems.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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Just / Wile,
The world trade issues are enormous. No single chart - no room full of charts - can diagram even the segments like US aircraft in China. Plus, much is not for the public to know.

In re 1); US corn and soybeans do not go to China for free.

In re 2); Boeing (USA) nearly went bankrupt. Boeing China, Inc makes major components of the aircraft for both China's fleet and some others.

"Treason" not part of the equation. All this discussed and debated well prior to any export license for anything issued. "Intellectual property" does involve trade-offs. They are minor however.

US Government (Again, don't read the Washington Post !) disagrees with you. Capital acquired, prevention of bankruptcy and avoiding massive US unemployment most important. Plus, any void would be filled by competitor AirBus Industrie.

Am not clear re "if we are at war...". Who is "we" ? The US is fractured and it started before US businesses entered China and continues even today. All the debates and unpublicized agreements worked out well prior to matters going public.

I know the real world trade danger but must read the forum rules again before I'd practice my typing here.

Will close by mentioning that if the ~ 2,000 + US companies leave China, US Government checks supporting such matters as such as California and New York pension funds, stop. Then there would be domestic problems.
The Fed would just print more money. Kinda like they are doing now. We are so far removed from a rational economy at this point I don't know how it can get any worse.

China is building a mighty Airforce. If you don't see how Boeing transferring their aerospace technology to China is a problem rising to treason, I don't know what to say.

"All this discussed and debated well prior to any export license for anything issued " - Ever hear of bribes? Was there a vote on this? China Joe would sell out his mother for a buck, as would most of the democrats in office.
 

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The Fed would just print more money. Kinda like they are doing now. We are so far removed from a rational economy at this point I don't know how it can get any worse.

China is building a mighty Airforce. If you don't see how Boeing transferring their aerospace technology to China is a problem rising to treason, I don't know what to say.

"All this discussed and debated well prior to any export license for anything issued " - Ever hear of bribes? Was there a vote on this? China Joe would sell out his mother for a buck, as would most of the democrats in office.
Not that easy to print monopoly money any more.

The supressed interest rates could skyrocket any day - even tomorrow.

Note that the US does not use the monopoly money to settle their foreign accounts. It's really about like the Weimar Republic ... a forum member recently mentioned a wagon-load of paper money to buy something basic.

If / when interest rates skyrocket, even electricity for a PC could get expensive - if - electricity even available 24/7.

No, never heard of bribes. I was in oil industry and the inducements involved LARGE projects and campaign contributions. The grain trade (includes some non-grains eg peanuts are not a grain) is richer than the oil industry AND whereas the oil industry is "public" ie they are listed on the financial markets eg NYSE, the grain trade is private ... no public financial reports like those involved in stock market. America's richest company, presuming this stuff can really be measured and then compared, is Cargill. ConAgra and Archer Daniel up there also.

Again, it's a big field.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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Not that easy to print monopoly money any more.

The supressed interest rates could skyrocket any day - even tomorrow.

Note that the US does not use the monopoly money to settle their foreign accounts. It's really about like the Weimar Republic ... a forum member recently mentioned a wagon-load of paper money to buy something basic.

If / when interest rates skyrocket, even electricity for a PC could get expensive - if - electricity even available 24/7.

No, never heard of bribes. I was in oil industry and the inducements involved LARGE projects and campaign contributions. The grain trade (includes some non-grains eg peanuts are not a grain) is richer than the oil industry AND whereas the oil industry is "public" ie they are listed on the financial markets eg NYSE, the grain trade is private ... no public financial reports like those involved in stock market. America's richest company, presuming this stuff can really be measured and then compared, is Cargill. ConAgra and Archer Daniel up there also.

Again, it's a big field.
I had a meeting with ADM before they moved their headquarters. Really neat that they had their own commodities trading floor essentially that I walked past to get to the conference room.
Kinda felt like I was on Wall Street. :)
 

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I had a meeting with ADM before they moved their headquarters. Really neat that they had their own commodities trading floor essentially that I walked past to get to the conference room.
Kinda felt like I was on Wall Street. :)
A valuable experience you were involved in. ADM also runs foreign exchange transactions like banks.

A quote I carry around in my Day Planner ... pertinent to this thread and much else getting posted here at site:

" Every modern Western nation is now a democratic socialist mercantile state with a managed economy and managed trade. Corporations around the world are instruments of the government when it comes to export policy."

Dwayne Andreas, Chairman, Archer Daniels Midland.
 

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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter · #748 ·
You must be joking.
What do we buy from China that we can't buy from Vietnam, S Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Mexico, India, Canada, etc?
The vast majority of things and the other countries can't supply us unless China supplies them. China has all the factories, and especially heavy industry, and resource refinement under it's control. Stop thinking about cash. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you're at war with the place that produces all the lead. You can't buy or make lead bullets for long. They're not going to sell you the lead no matter how much cash you're offering.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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The vast majority of things and the other countries can't supply us unless China supplies them. China has all the factories, and especially heavy industry, and resource refinement under it's control. Stop thinking about cash. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you're at war with the place that produces all the lead. You can't buy or make lead bullets for long. They're not going to sell you the lead no matter how much cash you're offering.
I'm sure lead was just an example, but there are huge lead mining and smelting operations in Peru and Chile. I have been to the Doe Run mine up on the mountain behind Lima Peru and also did a proposal for a company called Enami in Chile.
That whole mountain range from Chile, up through Mexico and thence to the Rockies has just about any mineral you would ever want in there.
I drove right by the leader of the terror organization down there (The Shining Path). They captured him just a couple minutes after I passed the army troops just to the left of the road as i drove by. (I wasn't driving, I took a cab with the world's dirtiest windows). At least he did not drive off the cliff, because there was no guard rail and it was a straight drop of 1 mile approx. Narrow road . If you are ever going to get religion, it will happen driving up that road.

The last lead mine in the US was Herculaneum I believe also called Doe Run company.

I worked for a time at St. Joe Minerals (Monaca, Pa) that at the time I think owned the Doe Run mine in Peru. Maybe China has expanded down that way though, not sure. They are kind of sneaking up on the entire world, offering to provide monies up front and then when they can't make the payments, they own the country.

the Process and the plant were quit old and polluted badly, not to mention they had a few fatalities every month. It was like hell basically.
They developed a new hyrometallurgical process that refines the lead in a very clean manner. (dissolved the ore concentrate in near boiling sulfuric acid, then some simple redox reaction provides lead chloride crystal precipitate, which is then filtered out and reduced ultimately to elemental lead). I worked a summer at the pilot plant for that technology.

Not sure where all that technology resides currently, but I would think the US could rebuild that business in a pinch. there were also some mining and smelting going on in NewFoundland. I think they were focused more on Nickel if memory serves. Falconbridge was one of the companies up there. Looks like they were bought by American Company Phelps Dodge.
Then it would bought and is still owned by

Freeport McMoRan HQ'ed in Arizona.

Looks like DOe Run still makes lead, (from somewhere).

Looks like their CEO is retiring next month. His Bio is still promising to bring that hydrometallurgical refining process to market. Good grief, I worked at that pilot plant around 1979 . almost 43 years ago. :)
From their website:

"Jerry Pyatt
Chief Executive Officer
Jerry Pyatt is proud to be a second-generation Doe Run employee and to spend his entire career with the company. He gained valuable first-hand experience across the company’s operations with roles in the laboratory, at Resource Recycling, in mining and milling, and overseeing smelter operations; ultimately rising to COO before becoming president and CEO in 2013. Today, Jerry serves as CEO until he retires in December 2021.
The ability to motivate positive change within Doe Run and the industry defines Jerry’s 43-year career at Doe Run.
“Leading the development of our breakthrough hydrometallurgical metal production technology is a highlight of my career. We’re determined to bring this technology to the industry. It will provide increased value to the industry and Doe Run, and, most importantly, enable us to deliver on our environmental goals.”
Jerry mentors the next generation of metals and mining industry leaders as an alumni board member of the Missouri University of Science and Technology (Missouri S&T) Mining Department. He also serves on the boards of the Battery Council International, St. Louis Regional Chamber, and St. Louis Regional Business Council."
 

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Ultimately, the China invades Taiwan scenarios I believe all kick off with simultaneous attacks on Guam & Okinawa & reconnaissance assets (i.e. satellites) at a minimum.

Such attacks would mean the deaths of thousands of U.S. troops & possibly tens of thousands of civilians outside Taiwan, not counting the butcher's bill there.

At a minimum the USA would impose a blockade...what does China look like 6 months to a year after they've only been able to smuggle in 5-10% of their normal fuel imports?
 

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Biden just gave China the green light to invade China at the Virtual Summit. If China is to invade Taiwan, they’ll have to do it prior to the Republican Red Wave of 2024. Especially with Biden occupying the White House now, they have the green light to go ahead with no consequences. That won’t be the case after the 2024 Elections.

The Russians know this as well; that’s why they’re preparing their move on the Ukraine now. Once they kick it off, China will follow suit.

We’re about to witness history in the making.

And we’ll do nothing but watch.

Joe Biden Backs Down on Taiwan After Xi Jinping Warns of 'Playing with Fire'
 

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They will invade before the 2022 midterms , North Korea will unify the Korean peninsula and Russia and China will divide up Japan.
 

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Biden just gave China the green light to invade China at the Virtual Summit. If China is to invade Taiwan, they’ll have to do it prior to the Republican Red Wave of 2024. Especially with Biden occupying the White House now, they have the green light to go ahead with no consequences. That won’t be the case after the 2024 Elections.

The Russians know this as well; that’s why they’re preparing their move on the Ukraine now. Once they kick it off, China will follow suit.

We’re about to witness history in the making.

And we’ll do nothing but watch.

Joe Biden Backs Down on Taiwan After Xi Jinping Warns of 'Playing with Fire'
Senator Grassley's farmers ... think of the grain trade and not the picture on box of Kellogs cereal ...are Republicans also besides Democrats.

Boeing is from Washington state and their HQ is in Chicago.

There are > ~ 2,200 US companies operating in China.

Existential policy positions frequently enough - -- completely admitting that the major exceptions do occur. I watch and worry about Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action releasing Iranian funds that are frozen in US - - - involve both Dem and GOP parties.

Not sure why term "invade" is used. It's about international economic victories and the celebrations don't occur on LaSallle Street, Chicago and Wall Street, Manhattan, ... well, maybe they do.
 

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That's what I used to think it meant.
Decimate means to reduce by 10%, leaving 90% still there. To kill 1 out of every 10 opposing troops.
They should change it, since the common usage means 90% reduction.
Changing the 2,000 year old definition of "decimate" to something that means almost the opposite is going to be a tough sell but not impossible.
The word "existentialist" was invented 100 years ago to describe a philosophy asserting that humans control their own essence. I see it now recycled, most commonly as an adjective as in, "China is an existential threat." Almost the opposite - yet, I've seen new second definitions for the word that include "serious," and "beyond experience." it's sad but I expect one day the original meaning will become the second definition and the now-common usage will become primary.
I guess that's what happened to thee and thou and a thousand other words.
 

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Changing the 2,000 year old definition of "decimate" to something that means almost the opposite is going to be a tough sell but not impossible.
The word "existentialist" was invented 100 years ago to describe a philosophy asserting that humans control their own essence. I see it now recycled, most commonly as an adjective as in, "China is an existential threat." Almost the opposite - yet, I've seen new second definitions for the word that include "serious," and "beyond experience." it's sad but I expect one day the original meaning will become the second definition and the now-common usage will become primary.
I guess that's what happened to thee and thou and a thousand other words.
Putt, Just;

There's a principle in forensic psychiatry that different persons assign different definitions - and meanings - to the same words, terms and expressions.

That's why narrative is needed.

Run an acid test with word "best". What is the best container to carry one's load ? Only run the test when plenty of time and everyone in room is an "expert". Do not run a test on word "expert".

......

Meanwhile, "spirits", "wine" and liquor all mean the same in some international groups working together.

I learned a different meaning to word "existential" than mentioned above. It doesn't matter when narrative is relied on.

I've got some funny - funny to me - examples on word use especially when working overseas with foreigners speaking English.
 
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